Cause of war
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What do you think the main goal of the crusades was? No matter how unjust a cause might be, there must’ve been a cause for the crusades. What do you propose this was?
Religion was also a trigger for the English Civil War. Charles I believed in the divine right of kings so fervently that he refused to accept any limitation on his power. I think he wanted to drag England back down to Catholicism. It took a war and an axe to get rid of that stupid idea.
What about the total genocides of the Americas in the name of god. If they couldn't convert the natives and use them as slaves they just murdered them. They eradicated their native religion, customs, cultures, and languages. How many people died in the name of christ justified by and endorsed by christianity? maybe as many as 100 million.
Wars maybe are caused by an idea, asset acquisition, but they are justified by religion. And the most predominant of all wars including WW II was christianity.
How? How was WW2 influenced by Christianity?
Taipei Rebellion, at least 20,000,000 dead. The 2 main reasons behind the war were religion and racism. Even though I personally don't think most conflicts are "due"of religion they are at least augmented with violence by religions.
i thought the cause of war is just to give soldiers something to work on...games of general as they say it is right?
sell out the bullets, sell out the bombs..sell out the guns..
...let the business begin...
I'm sorry.... but I can no longer stand aside and read JoC 's unremitting tide of lies and misrepresentations......
Only 7 Crusades.... ??
What about the Albigensian Crusades ? or the Northern Crusades along the Baltic coasts ..... just slipped your memory did they ?
Odd that the Catholics have this selective amnesia over their own short comings....
Now when it comes to researching Religious Wars , there are several problems ,time is a major factor ,then there is the reliability of the sources , particularly the further back in time you go the less accurate the figures and the fewer the sources you find to check against.
So in order to complete the task in something like an acceptable time frame I limited my field of search to the period between the 16th century and the 20th century. I also chose to include only those conflicts with a solely religious cause.
For instance I did not count the Battle of the Boyne campaign as I found that Protestant King William’s army had nearly as many catholics in it as Catholic King James’ army. Thus , whatever else the conflict was about it was not religion despite what many will tell you today.
Any way here is what I found …
In the 16th century there were four major religious conflicts… 3,100,000 dead.
Spanish Armada 1588. 30,000 dead.
Huguenot Wars (France) 1562-1598. 2,830,000 dead.
St. Bartholemews Day Massacre (France) 1572. 70,000 dead.
Dutch Revolt 1566-1609 100,000 dead.
In the 17th century there were three major religious conflicts… 8,405,000 dead.
English Civil War 1642-1646 868,000 dead.
Shimabara Revolt (Japan) 1637-1638 37,000 dead.
The Thirty Years War (Europe)1618-1648 7,500,000 dead.
In the 18th century there was one major religious conflict… 10,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Korea 1784-1794 10,000 dead.
In the 19th century there were six major religious conflicts… 25,780,000 dead.
Bahai Massacres (Persia) 1848-1854 20,000 dead.
Boxer Rebellion (China) 1899-1901. 115,000 dead.
Christian/Druse War (Lebanon) 1860 . 15,000 dead.
Mahdist Sudanese Wars 1881-1898 5,500,000 dead.
Taiping Rebellion (China) 1850-1864 20,000,000 dead.
Massacre of Catholic Converts in Vietnam 1832-1887 130,000 dead.
In the 20th century there were fourteen major religious conflicts… 1,278,887 dead.
Algerian Islamist Uprising 1992 100,000 dead.
Croatian War 1991-1992 25,000 dead.
Bosnian War 1992 -1995 175,000.
Hindu-Moslem riots in India 1992-2002 8,600 dead.
India/Pakistan Partition 1947 500,000 dead.
Iran Islamist Rebellion 1979 2,500 dead.
Iraq Shiite Rising 1991-1992 40,000 dead.
Lebanese War 1975-1992 150,000 dead.
Molluca Islands Christian/Muslim conflict 1999 - ? 5,000 dead.
Mongolia Stalinist destruction of Buddhism 1937-1939 30,000 dead.
Russian Pogroms 1905-1906 95,000 dead.
Nigeria Christian/Muslim conflict 1992- ? 53,787 dead.
Arab/Israeli Wars 1948- ? 78,000 dead.
Sikh uprising in India 1982-1991 16,000 dead.
The point that these wars would have happened anyway if religion did not exist ,is wrong.
Study the list ,check the facts , don’t just go with my figures …check for yourself …then you’ll see that each of these deaths is directly attributable to religion and would not have happened if religion did not exist….all those lives….all that human potential … wiped out for what..?
For nothing … for a con.
How many potential Mozarts , how many Einsteins ,how many Schweitzers ….
How much further advanced would civilisation be if these individuals had been able to have their input.
Odd that the number of “wars” dropped during the “Enlightenment” and even odder that the numbers are increasing now.
Now JoC ... I really don't mind you being delusional..... but please don't try to distort history to suit your pathetic fantasies.
we all have our differences, you like this, i don't like that.. i know this, you don't know that...
these arguments happen when we tend to let that urge of letting that individual know that you're right and he's wrong..
but that's why were unique...individually....
he can't never change your point of view watchman..
vise versa to joc's end..
just chillax and don't let the fart climb up to our brains..
we don't want anymore threads like "what an idiot"
peace out to everyone
Thanks for compiling that list. With your permission I may reference this list as these "religion based wars" arguments pop up here and other debate forums.
I was not trying to deny any of these things actually happening. I actually agree with you. I do stand corrected on the number of crusades. The church does say there were 7 major crusades and several smaller expeditions mostly part of the 7 major ones. Some websites show an 8th or 9th but it boils down to being part of another crusade.
I do agree that religion does influence wars. Especially as it’s a major part of human cultures. It’s quite inevitable. But like you mentioned, at it’s core, wars are waged on ideas. They need not be religious in nature.
But religions are ideas, just like anything else.
No atheist can start a war with the claim that "god" told them to do it.
This is quite a common misconception among (edit for typo) theists, that not believing in a deity makes one immoral, despite all the evidence showing this to be untrue. In the states part of this is derived from perceptions developed about communists states during the cold war as atheistic and immoral.
The common theistic claim that without theism they could see nothing immoral about actions like rape and murder does make me wonder what might happen if enough theists suddenly lost their beliefs. I am of course also minded to wonder if they have noticed all the theists who daily commit such crimes as rape and murder and always have. In a secular system such crimes could certainly not just be 'forgiven' with a single act of belief and contrition, and it's morally obscene to think any system could forgive crimes like those of Hitler or Stalin if they simply repented. Or a system that could torture anyone for eternity, let alone a person who was good and decent all their lives but failed to believe in a deity that chooses for all intents and purposes to hide from us.
Feel free..... its a piece I put together a couple of years ago for a "Skeptic" site I used to frequent...... I've still got the list of sources , if you need them drop me an e-mail.
@Watchman: Religious Wars.
One more for the 20th century: the Partition of India in 1947
While this wasn't strictly a war, it unleashed appalling religious savagery. The death toll can only be estimated, but it was certainly over a million, possible 2 million. My stepfather witnessed some of the horrors.
The notion that a religion is more valid because it causes millions fewer deaths than another is absurd.
Also, defending the Abrahamic god from the charge of being used as a pretext for war ignores the fact that the scriptures of the Abrahamic god show it being proud of being used as a pretext for genocide.