Christianity and Islam both are polytheistic religions that worship a pantheon of deities. They both have God, Satan, and Angels in their pantheon of divinities. Some branches also have demons, ghosts, zombies, jinn, saints, and more. Why are they misdefined as monotheistic faiths when they obviously are not?
Detailed explanation - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy2kaeWSl1E
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No, they are not polytheist religions.
"They both have God, Satan, and Angels in their pantheon of divinities"
On what basis do you say this? In Christianity and Islam, Satan and Angels are considered as the creation of God.
Saints are just respected personalities in religion who are considered to have dedicated their lives to religion and lived with complete adherence to the laws of God.
@ Seek3R
I think you will find that in just about every creationist, pantheist religion all the gods are considered 'created' or 'birthed' by the head honcho.
Zeus begat all the other main gods (he birthed them from his head) who then bred with selected humans to produce demigods.....they were all 'gods' of various degrees and abilities.
That is exactly the point the OP was making. The Cult of Mary treats her just like a god, she can make supernatural events happen, just like a god, appear to followers, just like a god...if the damn thing quacks its most likely a duck.
The cults around the saints and the fact that Satan is autonomous to god in the christian Pantheon, as is the Holy Penis..oops ghost who apparently can travel to do the head god's missions. The ArchAngels Gabriel and Michael can all do many godlike things, the lesser angels can intervene in human affairs and are immortal...a godlike power indeed....so they are all identical in practice to a pantheon of gods, demi-gods, godlets and lesser divines.
You made a false distinction my friend....
And finally:
Saints are reputed to have many of the divine powers of the triplet God, some can levitate, others resist arrows, charm birds from trees, make snakes talk, cure the sick...the list of magical powers obtained from the godhead just goes on. They are worshipped, have their own chapels, orders of nuns and monks, their own worship days.....just like demi gods in a pantheon.
That was the point of the OP the religions have not really changed only their label of preference.
Christianity and many of the Islamic sects are polytheistic in all but their own preference in naming rights.
Remember YHWH (Allah) himself was married at one point to Ashera....
(Edit to add angels)
"Christianity and many of the Islamic sects are polytheistic in all but their own preference in naming rights."
Right, that's exactly the perspective I replied i.e. from the religion's own perspective. You're right that all the other mentioned titles do have supernatural powers, including prophets.
"Remember YHWH (Allah) himself was married at one point to Ashera...."
Umm, Yahweh is the God in Judaism. How did you connect him with Allah? And, who's Ashera?
@SEEKR3
ALLAH IS the Arabic version of YHWH, the qu'ran is cribbed wholesale from the Talmud and Torah with little change.
Ashera, like YHWH is part of the Sumerian pantheon and was mrs YHWH (who was the god of war) . In recent archeological discoveries shrines to Ashera were found in most early hebrew homes.
Yes, the Quran is cribbed wholescale.... agreed.
Ashera, I don't know about her.
But Islam and its school of taught, its holy book, its history, scholars and etc do not consider that Allah was married, had a child, was given birth to or anything of that sort. Once again, I replied from the perspective of what Islam says because that's what we're talking about.
Asherah was part of the Canaanite pantheon .
A reference I've found interesting : The Wiki article is worth reading. The book is better. :
"Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel, (Eerdmans, ISBN 0-8028-2852-3, 2005),[1] is a book by Syro-Palestinian archaeologist William G. Dever, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Archeology and Anthropology at the University of Arizona. Did God Have a Wife? was intended as a popular work making available to the general public the evidence long known to archaeologists regarding ancient Israelite religion: namely that the Israelite god of antiquity (before 600 BCE), Yahweh, had a consort, that her name was Asherah, and that she was part of the Canaanite pantheon. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Did_God_Have_a_Wife%3F
For archaeological evidence of polytheism in ancient Israel until at least 300 bce. Again, the Wiki article is worth reading, but the book is better. :
"The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts, a book published in 2001, discusses the archaeology of Israel and its relationship to the origins and content of the Hebrew Bible. The authors are Israel Finkelstein, Professor of Archaeology at Tel Aviv University, and Neil Asher Silberman, an archaeologist, historian and contributing editor to Archaeology Magazine. "
-------------------Hezekiah and monolatry
The Book of Kings, as it stands today, seems to suggest that the religion of Israel and Judah was primarily monotheistic, with one or two wayward kings (such as the Omrides) who tried to introduce Canaanite polytheism, the people occasionally joining in this 'apostasy' from monotheism, but a close reading and the archaeological record reveals that the opposite was true.[37] Iron Age remains show that in the time of the setting of the Book of Kings, sacrifices continued to be offered at hilltop shrines (which the Bible terms "high places"), incense and libations were being offered throughout the land, and clay figurines of deities were still being used in homes everywhere in the land as household gods.[37] Inscriptions from "the early eighth century site of Kuntillet Ajrud in northeastern Sinai" as well as "in a late-monarchic inscription from the Shephelah of Judah", even seem to refer to "the goddess Asherah as being the consort of YHWH".[38]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed
(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Islam can't strictly be completely separated from Judaism or Christianity. Together they make up 'The Abrahamic religions' because each traces its origins to the prophet Abraham. Each of the the three WORSHIP THE SAME GOD . YHWH IS ALLLAH.
Abraham is considered to LITERALLY be the father of the Jews and of the arabs; TheJews through his son Isaac, with his wife Sarah . The Arabs [and hence of Islam) through his son Ishmael ,with his slave al Hagar the Egyptian.
Any pre Islamic attributes/ history which can be attributed to YHWH must also be shared by Allah because they are same being.
With little change? I doubt you ever got around to reading the both. There are significant differences from the first page to the last.
Perhaps a smidge pedantic: In the Catholic church, a saint is one who is in heaven with God. The church claims to have the power to decide which person is a saint. There is long process, which concludes with two verified miracles were the saint has interceded with god for a specific person. The act of canonisation is simply official declaration that a person is in heaven
It was only recently the that the horrible hag of Calcutta , Mother Theresa ,was declared a saint .
The official church position is that saints have no powers of their own ,but that God works through them .Same with the Virgin ; she will intercede with her son Jesus on a person's behalf.
That saints are not worshipped . They are revered.
The bit of Jesuitical sophistry above is pretty much ignored by the faithful, assuming they think about it at all. In reality, many worship the statues of Christ crucified, of his mother and a vast canopy of saints. Some real ,many invented.
The Catholic church has always had the flexibility to absorb the gods of old religions into saints, some real , some invented,. -and of course the Virgin Mary, the goddess figure otherwise missing in Christianity .
There is little if any original theology or cosmology in any of the Abrahamic religions. I mean really ;. The tribe of illiterate bronze age goat herders who became the Jews, lacked the wit to even invent their own God.
And in Hinduism everything is the creation of Brahma, still polytheism. Satan is also a cheap ripoff of Hades and an example of lazy writing by the biblical authors.
So what? This isn't the first time religion(s) got things wrong. I may not delve too much into this thread because I am not going to play "definition word games".
Judaism and Islam tend to consider Christianity as polytheistic because of the triune god , which even few Christians understand. I never did, considering the notion of father, son and holy spirit just another piece of Jesuitical sophistry,** so to speak.
Although Catholics seem to worship Mary and the saints, this is officially denied. Same goes for angels. Such beings are prayed to for 'intercession;' literally to plead your case with god. However, they are not considered divine and are not worshipped.
The devil and demons is more a matter of context. Not part of my Catholic education. It was kind of admitted the devil and demons existed, and lived hell. He was most definitely not considered a god. Some protestant churches have what I think is an unhealthy obsession with the devil and demons, insisting they are part of daily life.
My own personal run in with the devil was at age 6 , due to an especially fervent nun. I learned to say '"The devil made me do it'" whenever I misbehaved. Mum had to go over and yell at the head nun. The first of several such occasions.
As far as I'm aware there is no scholarly school of thought which argues christianity is polytheistic.,apart from the triune god thing, which is fiercely denied by Christians .
However, ain't gonna argue about it. Think as you will.
** if you want to see catholic sophistry in full flight, have a look at the canon law surrounding marriage annulments, The sheer hypocrisy will do your head in.
A purely monotheistic religion believing in a wholly just god is logically problematic because it fails to explain evil and tragedy. There needs to be a countervailing force.
[A quote I read once: mass movements can survive without a god, but they all need a devil]
@NeverHappened
It doesn't fail. The one God of both Christianity and Islam created Shaitan as well.
Yeah; if satan doesn't exist, he is invented.
Had not Saul of Tarsus stuck his oar in, it's likely the JEWISH sect later called "Christianity" would have faded into well deserved oblivion.
Zoroastrianism with its good/evil dichotomy dichotomy, predates Christianity by about 2000 years. Without Christianity, Zoroastrianism may well well have come to occupy the same place as does Christianity today ---
It is my view every religion reflects the culture which practices it. I am convinced that the religious history of the world would have not been noticeably different had Zoroastrianism been a major world religion. Men would always interpret the teaching to suit their own prejudices and needs ------
-The violence of extreme Muslims , or Xians ,or Hindus has little to do with any faith. First comes the fear, and hatred, envy and greed. Then the urge to violence,THEN the religious justification. In wars, every side has always claimed divine favour. (with the exception of atheist regimes where god is often replaced by a personality cult)
"Zoroastrianism or Mazdayasna is one of the world's oldest continuously practiced religions. It is a heterodox yet orthopraxic faith centered in a dualistic cosmology of good and evil and an eschatology predicting the ultimate conquest of evil with theological elements of henotheism, monotheism/monism, and polytheism.[1][2][3][4] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian-speaking spiritual leader Zoroaster (also known as Zarathushtra),[5] it exalts an uncreated and benevolent deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda (Wise Lord), as its supreme being.[6] Major features of Zoroastrianism, such as messianism, judgment after death, heaven and hell, and free will may have influenced other religious and philosophical systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Greek philosophy,[7] Christianity, Islam,[8] the Bahá'í Faith, and Buddhism.[9] "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
Caveat; perhaps a weakness in the Wiki article; a leaning towards conflating correlation and Causation. These are not these are things
@trustyoursources: TIME TO LEARN A NEW WORD - "Henotheistic"
Henotheism (from Greek ἑνός θεοῦ (henos theou), meaning 'of one god') is the worship of a single god while not denying the existence or possible existence of other deities.[1][2] Friedrich Schelling (1775–1854) coined the word, and Friedrich Welcker (1784–1868) used it to depict primitive monotheism among ancient Greeks.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism
Simply refer to the 10 commandments:
NUMBER ,ONE: “I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any strange gods before Me.” ...
Other gods and the people who worship them are mentioned throughout the bible.
Gods of the Bible----
Name Of Pagan/False god: Adrammelech
Worshipped By/In: Sepharvites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:31 (1)
Description: Sun-god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Amon
Worshipped By/In: Thebes In Egypt
Bible References: (Total Verses): Jer 46:25 (1)
Description: Sun-god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Anammelech
Worshipped By/In: Sepharvites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:31 (1)
Description: Moon-goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Asherah (Asherim)
Worshipped By/In: Canaan
Bible References: (Total Verses): Judg 6:25,26,28,30 (36)
Description: Fertility goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Ashima
Worshipped By/In: Hammath In Syria
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:30 (1)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Ashtoreth (Ashtaroth)
Worshipped By/In: Syria / Phoenicia / Canaan
Bible References: (Total Verses): 1 Kin 11:5,33 (9)
Description: Love, fertility goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Baal
Worshipped By/In: Syria / Phoenicia / Canaan
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 10:18-23,25-28 (43)
Description: Principal god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Baal-berith
Worshipped By/In: Shechem In Canaan
Bible References: (Total Verses): Judg 8:33, Judg 9:4 (2)
Description: Name means "lord of covenant"
Name Of Pagan/False god: Baal-Peor
Worshipped By/In: Moabites
Bible References: (Total Verses): Num 25:3,5 (6)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Baal-Zebub (Beelzebub in NT Greek)
Worshipped By/In: Ekron In Philstine
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 1:2,3,6,16 (4 OT)(6 NT)
Description: Name means "lord of flies" (protection from)
Name Of Pagan/False god: Bel (possibly same as Baal)
Worshipped By/In: Moabites / Babylonians / Ammonites
Bible References: (Total Verses): Isa 46:1 Jer 50:2, Jer 51:44 (3)
Description: Principal god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Castor/Pollux (Twin Brothers)
Worshipped By/In: Greeks
Bible References: (Total Verses): Acts 28:11 (1)
Description: Twin sons of Zeus. Protection for sailors.
Name Of Pagan/False god: Chemosh
Worshipped By/In: Moabites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 1 Kin 11:7,33 (8)
Description: Destroyer, subduer. Child sacrifices made for
Name Of Pagan/False god: Dagon
Worshipped By/In: Philistines
Bible References: (Total Verses): 1 Sam 5:2-5,7
Description: Grain-god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Diana / Artemis
Worshipped By/In: Ephesus In Greece
Bible References: (Total Verses): Acts 19:24,27-28,34-35 (5)
Description: Moon, hunting, virginity goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Gad (Fortune)
Worshipped By/In: Israel
Bible References: (Total Verses): Isa 65:11 (1)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Golden Calf
Worshipped By/In: Israel Borrowed from Egypt
Bible References: (Total Verses): Story in Ex 32
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Jupiter / Zeus
Worshipped By/In: Greeks
Bible References: (Total Verses): Acts 14:12 (1)
Description: King god, ruler of heaven and all other gods
Name Of Pagan/False god: Kalwan (Chiun)
Worshipped By/In: Babylonians
Bible References: (Total Verses): Amos 5:26 (1)
Description: Possibly star god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Meni (Destiny)
Worshipped By/In: Israel
Bible References: (Total Verses): Isa 65:11 (1)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Mercury / Hermes
Worshipped By/In: Greeks
Bible References: (Total Verses): Acts 14:12 (1)
Description: Messenger for the gods
Name Of Pagan/False god: Merodach / Marduk
Worshipped By/In: Babylonians
Bible References: (Total Verses): Jer 50:2 (1)
Description: Possibly associated with Mars, war god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Milcom (Malcham, Malcam)
Worshipped By/In: Ammonites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 1 Kin 11:5.33 (6)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Molech (Moloch)
Worshipped By/In: Ammonites
Bible References: (Total Verses): Lev 20:2,3,4,5 (10)
Description: Destroyer, consumer. Child sacrifices made for
Name Of Pagan/False god: Nebo
Worshipped By/In: Chaldea In Babylon
Bible References: (Total Verses): Isa 46:1 (1)
Description: Writing, speech, literature, arts god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Nehushtan
Worshipped By/In: Israel
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 18:4 (1)
Description: Serpent Moses made in wilderness (Num 21:4-9)
Name Of Pagan/False god: Nergal
Worshipped By/In: Cuth In Babylon
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:30 (1)
Description: Wat and hunting god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Nibhaz
Worshipped By/In: Avvites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:31 (1)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Nisroch
Worshipped By/In: Assyrians
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 19:37, Isa 37:38 (2)
Description: ----------
Name Of Pagan/False god: Queen Of Heaven (Known As Ishtar)
Worshipped By/In: Assyria / Babylon
Bible References: (Total Verses): Jer 7:18, Jer 44:17,18,19,25 (5)
Description: Love, war, fertility goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Rimmon
Worshipped By/In: Syria
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 5:18 (1)
Description: Weather god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Sikkuth
Worshipped By/In: Babylonians
Bible References: (Total Verses): Amos 5:26 (1)
Description: Saturn god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Succoth Benoth
Worshipped By/In: Babylonians / Samarians
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:30 (1)
Description: goddess
Name Of Pagan/False god: Tammuz
Worshipped By/In: Babylonians / Samarians
Bible References: (Total Verses): Ezek 8:14 (1)
Description: Vegetation god
Name Of Pagan/False god: Tartuk
Worshipped By/In: Avvites
Bible References: (Total Verses): 2 Kin 17:31 (1)
Description: Prince of darkness
https://jesusalive.cc/ques220.htm
Modern Christians try to escape their ANCIENT ROOTS by pretending any god but theirs is a "false god." And many of the Gods are simply demoted to demons, angels, jin, saints, or some such nonsense.
So I refer to the Christian faith as well as Islam as Henotyheistic as they both worship one god among many and while they call the other gods, false, they clearly admit that they have the magical power to influence life on this planet by causing evil things to happen.
@Cognostic
"So I refer to the Christian faith as well as Islam as Henotyheistic as they both worship one god among many and while they call the other gods, false, they clearly admit that they have the magical power to influence life on this planet by causing evil things to happen."
Islam definitely doesn't and I don't think Christians do either.
@LEPER: RE: "Islam definitely doesn't and I don't think Christians do either."
What a fucking ignorant comment considering I just demonstrated that they literally and factually do.
Al-Lat, also spelled Allat, Allatu and Alilat, is a pre-Islamic Arabian goddess worshipped under various associations throughout the entire peninsula, including Mecca where she was worshipped alongside Manat and al-'Uzza. The word Allat or Elat has been used to refer to various goddesses in the ancient Near East, including the goddess Asherah-Athirat.
Awar is one of the five sons of Iblis, mentioned in Sahih Muslim. He is a shaitan who encourages debauchery. His four brothers are named: Dasim (داسم), Zalambur (زلنبور), Sut (مسوط), and Tir (ثبر). Each of them is linked to another psychological function, which they try to encourage to prevent humans spiritual development.
Dasim is one of the five sons of Iblis, mentioned in Sahih Muslim. He is a shaitan, linked to the cause of hatred between man and wife. His four brothers are named: Awar, Zalambur (زلنبور), Sut (مسوط), and Tir (ثبر). Each of them is linked to another psychological function, which they try to encourage to prevent humans spiritual development.
Exorcism in Islam is called 'aza'im IPA: ['aza'im]). Ruqya on the other hand summons jinn and demons by invoking the names of God, and to command them to abandon their mischiefs and is thought to repair damage believed caused by jinn possession, witchcraft (shir) or the evil eye. Exorcisms today are part of a wider body of contemporary Islamic alternative medicine called "prophetic medicine".
Ghaddar is a demon in Islamic mythology and Islam related folklore. The Ghaddar is described as a demon resembling dogs or goats, sired by Iblis and a demon from the fires of Samum.[1] Usually female, she preys upon men to assault them and mutilate their genitalia.
Iblīs (or Eblis)[1] is a figure frequently occurring in the Quran, commonly in relation to the creation of Adam and the command to prostrate himself before him. After he refused, he was cast out of heaven. For many classical scholars, he was an angel,[2][3][4] but regarded as a jinn in most contemporary scholarship.[5] Due to his fall from God's grace, he is often compared to Satan in Christian traditions. In Islamic tradition, Iblis is often identified with Al-Shaitan ("the Devil"). However, while Shaitan is used exclusively for an evil force, Iblis himself holds a more ambivalent role in Islamic traditions.[6]
Ifrit, also spelled as efreet, efrite, ifreet, afreet, afrite and afrit (Arabic: ʻIfrīt: عفريت, pl ʻAfārīt: عفاريت) are supernatural creatures in some Middle Eastern stories. In Islamic culture, they are usually a powerful type of jinn or identified with death-spirits.
Manāt (Arabic: مناة Arabic pronunciation: [maˈnaː(h)] oblique case, [maˈnaːt] construct state; also transliterated as manāh) was a Semitic goddess worshiped in the Arabian Peninsula before the rise of Islam and the Prophet Muhammad in the 7th century . She was among Mecca's three chief goddesses, alongside with her sisters, Allat and Al-‘Uzzá,[1] and among them, she was the original and the oldest.[ Her idol was destroyed after the rise of Islam and her worship disappeared in the Arabian peninsula
Ifrit, also spelled as efreet, efrite, ifreet, afreet, afrite and afrit (Arabic: ʻIfrīt: عفريت, pl ʻAfārīt: عفاريت) are supernatural creatures in some Middle Eastern stories. In Islamic culture, they are usually a powerful type of jinn or identified with death-spirits.
A Qareen (Arabic: قرين qarīn literally meaning: 'constant companion'), is a spiritual double of human, either part of the human himself or a complementary creature in a parallel dimension.[1][2] Due to its ghostly nature, the Qareen is classified among the Jinn-type creatures, although usually not actually a Jinni.[3] The Qareen as an accompanying spirit should not be confused with the Qarinah as a female "childbed demon" also existing in Middle Eastern faith.
Samūm (Arabic: سموم also spelled Simoom or Semum; from the root س م م s-m-m, سم "to poison") is a demon in Ancient Arabic lore and later Islamic beliefs. As a kind of fire, it is also the origin of some kinds of evil spirits and further identified with both the fires of hell and the fire of the sun. The Samum probably originated from Jewish lore as an anthropomorphization of poisonous wind, which was probably also the origin of the concept of Samael and his lesser devils. Islam further developes the relation between the fires of Samum and Satan by asserting, that he or at least his minor devils, are created from the fires of Samum.
Satan,[a] also known as the Devil,[b] is an entity in the Abrahamic religions that seduces humans into sin or falsehood. In Christianity and Islam, he is usually seen as either a fallen angel or a jinn, who used to possess great piety and beauty, but rebelled against God, who nevertheless allows him temporary power over the fallen world and a host of demons. In Judaism, Satan is typically regarded as a metaphor for the yetzer hara, or "evil inclination", or as an agent subservient to God.
In Islamic demonology, Sut (مسوط) is one of the five sons of Iblis mentioned in Sahih Muslim.[1] He is a Shaitan who causes hatred between man and wife.[2] His four brothers are named: Awar (اعور or لأعوار), Zalambur (زلنبور), Dasim (داسم), and Tir (ثبر). Each of them is linked to another psychological function, which they try to encourage to prevent humans spiritual development.[3]
Taghut (ar. طاغوت, ṭāġūt) is Islamic terminology denoting a focus of worship other than Allah. In traditional theology, the term often connotes idols or demons drawn to blood.
In Islamic demonology, Tir (ثبر) is one of the five sons of Iblis mentioned in Sahih Muslim.[1] He is a Shaitan who causes calamities and injuries.[2] His four brothers are named: Awar (اعور or لأعوار), Zalambur (زلنبور), Sut (مسوط), and Dasim (داسم). Each of them is linked to another psychological function, which they try to encourage to prevent humans spiritual development.[3]
Al-ʻUzzā (Arabic: العزى al-ʻUzzā [al ʕuzzaː]) was one of the three chief goddesses of Arabian religion in pre-Islamic times and was worshiped by the pre-Islamic Arabs along with Allāt and Manāt. A stone cube at aṭ-Ṭā’if (near Mecca) was held sacred as part of her cult. She is mentioned in the Qur'an Sura 53:19 as being one of the goddesses that people worshiped.
In Islam the Zabaniyah (Arabic: الزبانية) (also spelled Zebani in Turkish language) are the forces of hell,[1] who torment the sinners, also called the Angels of punishment or Guardians of Hell.[2] They are often identified with the Nineteen Angels of Hell mentioned in Quran 66:6 and 74:30 or as their subordinates.
Zalambur (alternate spelling Zalanboor) (Arabic: زلنبور) is one of the five sons of Iblis[1] mentioned in Sahih Muslim.[2] He is a shaitan who presides over dishonest and fraudulent business transactions. Said to have four brothers: Awar (اعور or لأعوار), Dasim (داسم), Sut (مسوط), and Tir (ثبر). Each of them is linked to another psychological function, which they try to encourage to prevent humans spiritual development.[3]
OF COURSE ISLAM DOESN'T ---- QUIT BEING SO FRIGGING IGNORANT!!!!!
@ Cognostic
Isn't the Hebrew EL and the Arabic AL from the same root word?
I don't have the reference but I remember reading that they had the same or similar roots.
Not meaning anything else by my question. Not trying to get in on the rest of the discussion.
Just thought of it when I read your post and thought you would know the answer.
@Cognostic
In Islam everything that happens and is done by any living or lifeless creature or object is done by the will of Allah.
Jesus h christ..who hasn't laundered all their spare socks recently?
Interesting how you mock at God saying that He himself approves of the existence of other gods when He really says that He alone is God, but then go to apologize for the existence of other gods even while labelling them as false gods.
By the way, please dont cherry pick the verses. Present everything in full. Just read a little above your common reference 2 Kings 17:31, read the 29th verse. You see that the Bible does not say they exist as Gods but were invented by men. Also read Isaiah 49
@ Rabbi Mark
Well said.
What is one of, if not the main theme in the Bible, that there is only one God.
It is pretty obvious.
@Jo
What you say may be pretty obvious to people that are so deep into your particular heavily plagiarized religion idea of that particular god. Well, know that it is VERY! obvious to anyone not programmed/brainwashed their entire lives by your particular religion that your particular god concept is NOT the only, "one God."
Also know: it is abundantly obvious to anyone not in your particular religion that it is all bullshit made up by humans. But don't feel singled out, this is true for all common religion ideas past and present, because they are ALL just human made up concepts, concepts because none of these religion/god concepts have any actual evidence that can actually promote these god ideas out of simple human concept status.
@ LogicFTW
Can you give me the reference for "your particular god concept is NOT the only, "one God.""
What about Atheism, was it also "made up by humans"?
"your particular religion that it is all bullshit made up by humans."
Can you give me your objective evidence for this claim?
Can you give me the something more than just your claim that "none of these religion/god concepts have any actual evidence."
Jo, you asked, “What about Atheism, was it also "made up by humans"?”
WTAF? After all this back and forth here on AR you still don’t understand what atheism is? Do you think asking this question provides support for your assertions? Did you ask it as a way of sounding in control? Superior? Justified?
@ CyberLN
"Jo, you asked, “What about Atheism, was it also "made up by humans"?”"
Yes, that was a pretty dumb statement/question on my part.
It was partially meant as sarcasm, but even so, it was dumb.
Where is the eraser on AR? :-)
@Jo
Sure, easy, Every other religion in the world, that has the same claim and same basis of evidence your particular religion/god concept has. (None.) That denies your god and promotes their own. All these concepts are equal because none of them are actually evidenced.
You at this point had it explained to you many times now what atheism/atheist means. It seems obvious you do not really listen to us when we explain it over and over again. But here I go again: Atheism is not an organization like your religion idea, atheism not an "alternative" or just another of many options, it is the negation of. Think of atheist like you would someone that declares themselves "not a stamp collector." Atheist is not a religion, heck it is barely organized (just like not stamp collectors do not organize!) This should be obvious, we do not have large expensive gaudy buildings everywhere where we preach to people what we think, and collect literal buckets of money every week. Atheist is the negation of the religion/god that is made up by humans. Your question here is highly misleading. Also realize you are also pretty much in the atheist club yourself, as you reject at least in part all the 1000's of other popular god/religion ideas out there. We atheist simply reject 1001 god concepts instead of your 1000.
Easy. No humans no religion no god. Humans disappear and all god/religion ideas in their entirety completely disappears.
It is sad to me, but not unexpected that you demand more then the: incredible lack of evidence for your god concept. What I wrote above applies here also, (no humans no god.) I am also well aware theist apologist love to bring up "prove my god is not real." Why? Because they run to the god of the gaps model, a model of god that cannot be disproven because conceptually it was designed that way, (all powerful, outside space and time, cannot be understood.) What this does is create a concept that cannot be disproven, that is beyond the reach of standard of real evidence that any reasonable human should require for anything as large, with extraordinary claim of "god." Beyond the whole: "the burden of proof lies on the person that makes the claim," that would be you claiming your god is real. Worse still the god of the gaps model in no way makes a connection to god you are actually talking about. They are 2 separate concepts, the first does not support in anyway the existence of your particular god concept, in fact: looked at critically and analytically the god of the gaps concept actually makes the major religions god concept even more silly in comparison.
I forget exactly which particular sect of which ever religion you are in. Tell me which book you read that you hold up as the unmistakable truth? (for example say your particular book of choice is the king james bible. And I will take the time to destroy the god depicted in said book with a few examples of outright lies/contradictions/falsehoods that appear on those pages. But none of this should even be necessary for a reasonable person to reject the various god ideas.
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▮I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
▮Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
▮Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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@ LogicFTW
"I forget exactly which particular sect of which ever religion you are in. Tell me which book you read that you hold up as the unmistakable truth? (for example say your particular book of choice is the king james bible. And I will take the time to destroy the god depicted in said book with a few examples of outright lies/contradictions/falsehoods that appear on those pages. But none of this should even be necessary for a reasonable person to reject the various god ideas."
Please give me a few examples of "outright lies/contradictions/falsehoods" in the KJV.
The KJV is just a reference point. Not saying it has to be or should be used.
Please do not just copy and paste long lists of supposed problems in the Bible.
Lets start with you best (worst) one or two.
Before you give me your example, I have one question for you.
If I can objectively show that it is not as you claim, will it make any difference to you?
@jo
So which bible do you use? Can you objectively prove your god is real?
@LogicFTW
"it is abundantly obvious to anyone not in your particular religion that it is all bullshit made up by humans."
Judaism and Christianity recognize each other so they don't feel this way. Islam recognizes both of them so there is none of that either.
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