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jessej1s89 - "And also, why some Atheists mock, make fun of, and ridicule my beliefs?"
Well for openers, because your beliefs (and those who share them) can be major sources of oppression in our lives. They essentially block us from public office, making getting a job more difficult, and rate us as trustworthy as "rapists". And this is in western countries! In other parts of the world it is much worse.
"I would like to know why some Athiests seem to hate followers of Jesus."
I don't hate the followERS of (insert religion here).
I do, however, find the followING of (insert religion here) distasteful and silly.
I also find the behavior of some followers of (insert religion here) abominable.
I read your profile.
Before we get into it, please define "God."
welcome to the forum jessej
If you wish to gain knowledge, here you will get it.
Ask any question you wish and we will try to answer it accordingly.
About hate, an atheist is just 1 of the millions of positions a person has.
The position of not believing in the theistic claim.
If there are some atheists that hate theists just because they are theists, they are bad people.
The usual position of most decent people is to "hate/not like" the theology/position, not the person.
I am an anti-theist and I think of most theists as victims. I do not hate theists. I do hate the theology they think is good.
I do not hate the theistic god because I do not believe he exists.
So what do you wish to know/ask?
"And also, why some Atheists mock, make fun of, and ridicule my beliefs?"
You present as reasonable and personable ...... but I have my doubts.....
time will tell....anyway....
now it is generally accepted that if you do not want your beliefs ridiculed ...... do not believe ridiculous things.
then there is this....
"Respect for your opinion, respect for mine as well."
What you think of my opinion is not of the least import to me...... sorry if that disapoints.
And as to your "request" for respect for your opinion ?
It has been my experience that respect has to be earned...not demanded.
Hi, it is not for me to condemn or abuse anybody for their personal beliefs, if you want to believe in an invisible man, believe in him then, if you want to slaver over a naked tortured man hanging on a cross feel free to then, just don't push it in the face of others. To me Christianity is an archaic death cult in which your central figure is an executed rebel/nutty preacher if he even existed. The bible stole a lot of its stories and books from older religions and virgin births and resurrection was not a new concept by the time young Yawey was conceived.. Egypt was a great source of inspiration there.. So viewing Jesus from an un-believers perspective if, and a big IF he did exist chances are he was a flesh and blood bloke, (conceived normally) who caused a lot of trouble, got bumped off and had a lot of myth spring up afterwards by fanatical followers who needed more followers to try and sucker in.
Firstly, the whole "I'm askin' for it" thing is already a bit of a rough start to your comment. You don't come off as obnoxious at all in the real midst of your comment, but again, the whole "Go ahead and roast me, I'm just askin' for it" is honestly obnoxious. You assume at the very beginning of your comment that you'll be viciously attacked for your religion.
Even as an atheist myself, I'll happily fight for everybody's right to practice their religion of choice. It's America. However, that includes my right to practice my religion, and part of my religious beliefs is that I believe your religion is wrong, immoral, and fake.
It's not America. Unlike you seem to assume, not everyone here is from the US. The USA is one of many many countries that would consider themselves democratic developed societies. For example all the many many countries in Europe, Australisia and your next door neighbor Canada, who are also American, or a fair portion of South America (again, also Americans) are just as advanced in civil liberties. Of course you've probably never left the US because you think the US is the whole world, but please open your eyes and look around.
"I am here to correctly represent the face of God, which is not the God that these misguided/rude "Christians" portray."
That's great, but why would your representation of the "face of God' be more correct than anyone else's? How did you manage to "correctly represent the face of God" when others did not? What makes you special and correct in ways others are not?
"I am here to correctly represent the face of God, which is not the God that these misguided/rude "Christians" portray."
That's great, but why would your representation of the "face of God" be more correct than anyone else's? How did you manage to "correctly represent the face of God" when others did not? What makes you special and correct in ways others are not?
Sorry about the double-post. For whatever reason, I am unable to delete the first of these. To make up for it, I offer this amazing video inspired by a David Lynch song...
Just an observation, Spewer, instead of apologising for a double post, using a third post, you could have edited the second post, cleared its content, and put your video link in as a second post, not posting a third time at all.
Pssssst..... *whispering*... hey... mutorc. check out the date on that post from spewer. *quietly tip-toeing away*...
"Hating followers" is very wrong. I'm sure every right thinking atheist will stand up against such bigotry. Mocking you... well... Here I'm guilty as charged. When I see people who believe in fairy tales and prioritize illogical belief over basic human decency, I tend to treat them as intellectually inept and slightly dim. It's like an auto-immune response. Can't help it.
Hi, Jesse. I suppose much of what I have to say has already been said, but here goes. Personally. I do not love or have based on religious affiliation as i've known both good and bad people from a wide range of belief communities, and I certainly have no intention of mocking you. The reason many atheists dislike religious doctrines is that they, and in all honesty I have to say we, see them as being implicated in serious and long standing abuses. This is not to condemn all people who follow those beliefs, just to be clear. Personally, I have had some of my most enjoyable conversations with Christians, and hope I can look forward to an open and constructive exchange with you.
I'm interested to know what makes you so sure that your beliefs are correct. Care to share your faith? I know that by better understanding what you believe, I will have a better time explaining why I disagree.
What I think about Christians: as a whole? You folks are fine. Moderate followers of any religion should be respected and treated well. What I mean by moderate is: Those that fallow their beliefs and are happy to do so without harming or condemning others (LGBT, people of other faiths ect) Now as to why many of us mock religion in general: to an atheist the idea of a deity is a tad absurd. I dont say this to disrespect anyone, but to a folk that live without a belief in gods a being that is all powerful, all knowing who cares if you mix fabrics, or eat shrimp from time to time is kinda crazy. and I think some of the mockery is a backlash for public views on atheists. But thats just me. Atheists are an incredibly diverse group, politically, morally and ethically.
Also, curiosity should always be encouraged, so bravo madame.
For the most part, when thinking of followers/believers of a religion the primary feeling I have is disappointment. Mostly because I spent enough time studying philosophy and religion that I have come to realize that the religions I have encountered (especially the western monotheistic variety) do not pass muster with regards to logic and morality. The only reason I can see to make such an illogical leap is due to fear of the unknown. When believing that fear is such a primary motivator in so many lives I simply feel sad.
Why hate and ridicule from the atheists? Likely because we are a collection of individuals and in so being are open to collective weaknesses as well. In my case of being called rude, I often do not intend to be but have a straightforward way of speaking and many people are sensitive on the subject. When attempting to be cruel it is usually in response to ignorance or stupidity. It is my belief that everything in the world should be made fun of, life is fucking short, laugh at it.
In response to the why do you we mock. Imagine people dedicate their lives to a belief system that falls short of intellectual standards learned in elementary school. How would you treat such people when they have the gall to attempt to speak down to you, while drowning in their own ignorance?
If your going to be a kind and nice christian it ok but now they are a couple of Christians who hurt others just to please god. I wouldn't make fun of a christian unless they bully someone in the name of god.
"So, I would like to know what you guys think about people like myself who believe in Jesus Christ. I would like to know why some Athiests seem to hate followers of Jesus. (Not saying everyone feels this way). And also, why some Atheists mock, make fun of, and ridicule my beliefs?
Feel free to say anything you want....I'm pretty much askin' for it hahaha
I'd say because atheists, Christians, any group really is going to be made up of people and not robots so everyone is going to have a different take on things. I would also have to say that hate is a pretty strong word to throw around. Christians and atheists are both going to range from the nicest person in the world to quite the opposite. Some people are outright "anti-theists."
If we simply assume you follow the teachings attributed to Jesus Christ, I think it would be hard to see someone hate you for that.
Where the problem arises is once it goes beyond that, real or not those messages are something everyone should strive to emulate in my opinion. However when it just becomes a fan club with people doing the exact opposite of the message of Jesus Christ that is where the ridicule does and ought to come into play. Telling people they are going to hell, the end of the world is a comin' real soon, gays are icky, loving the fetus and hating the child, prosperity gospel, looking down on others, this is all crap that should be done away with, and people really have a problem with this sort of thing when it gets elected to public office.
I'll be interested see if this thread goes anywhere.
Well, I can only really speak for myself - but usually the ones who actively hate Christians just for being christian are just stupid.
I have no problems with Christians, honestly - but as has been noted by others above, Christianity, along with pretty much every other religion, has been responsible for a great number of horrible atrocities throughout history. No matter what belief you hold, killing for that belief, enslaving, torturing, or otherwise oppressing others for that belief is never okay.
Personally, I differentiate between "Christians" and "real Christians" - the former being the common run-of-the-mill Christian, as hateful, spiteful, and ignorant as any other person - the kind who more often than not uses their faith as merely an excuse to scapegoat and harm others - and the latter being the good, kind, compassionate folks who sometimes make their way into the faith, and who seem to have actually taken a positive, life-affirming message away from the teachings of Jesus Christ. "Real Christians" are rare and precious - an absolute value and joy to have in your life, regardless of your faith or lack thereof. I've only ever met maybe three or four.
As for mocking your beliefs - I'll mock any belief that deserves mockery, which pretty much every faith-based belief does. *shrugs* We're not really given any clues as to what constitutes reality. The best way we have to determine reality is to hammer away at everything with as much criticism, scrutiny, and skepticism as we possibly can. That which holds up is true - that which doesn't can't have been true to begin with, and thus deserved to be destroyed. As they say, that which can be destroyed by the truth, ought to be.
Why do you believe that we are on the earth as human beings for a specific purpose? If you are trying to find the answer to a question that is based on a false assumption, you will end up with the wrong answer.
Surely you should first ask "Is there a reason we are on the earth as human beings?". Our understanding of the earth's creation over the past few 4+ billion years and evolution indicates that there is no "reason", other than random chance.
I try not to have preconceived ideas about people who believe in christ. I do admit however that if I meet someone who exhibits what I would consider a character flaw (rude, liar, inconsideration for example) I’m more likely to attribute these flaws to a bias I believe most religious have towards non-believers. I try to be conscious of this when I speak with the religious so I don’t automatically think that they are being rude or whatever because of our ideological differences and leave it at that. I mean maybe I just stole their parking spot or walked into a picture they were taking and when they say “WTF man ? move !” I don’t want be be all “oh just because I’m an atheist you think you can say whatever you want to me hey? You Christians are too damn bossy!” That would just be embarrassing.
As to why some atheists hate followers of jesus, I would say its because its an easily explained and understood reason for their hate. I don’t believe atheists have a more than average amount of haters in their ranks, kinda like the linux guy hating windows, I’m sure most linux people just like linux and don’t really care about windows. Haters are everywhere, atheists have them too. It could also be a bias of yours, being a believer and all, they probably stand out more to you. I know in my case I spend all day with a bunch of people at work who are cool, but that one jerk is the one I dwell on.
Ridicule is an expression of free speech. Satire and humor are effective ways to illuminate sensitive topics from different points of view. This is why I would mock your beliefs.
With every large group, people vary in their views and behavior. Some atheists hate all who don't share their views, and the same goes for those of any religious faith, but this is of course not all (not that you don't already know this). That being said, I'm not sure what kind of responses you will get from others on here, but as for me, I don't judge others based on their religious views - I judge them based on their behavior, regardless of whether that behavior was derived from their religious views or not. As for why many atheists don't like religion, it's due to the fact that various religions have caused so much suffering for so many over the centuries (the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Dark Ages, various terrorist attacks, the state of the Middle East, etc) and even today (the continuous patriarchal society we live in in which misogyny and victim blaming run rampant among much of the population, even in first world countries). Despite that these social norms would even be detrimental to men as well (the idea of a woman raping a man seems silly in today's society, and it causes countless male victims to stay quiet and alone in their suffering because of it), many still fight for these "traditional" gender roles because of their religious beliefs. I don't judge those based on their religion, as I've met plenty of kind-hearted Muslims and I'm friends with a few Creationists, all of them standing for equal rights for all. But many Republicans use their faith as an excuse to police the fundamental rights of others, causing us to waste time, money, and effort on debating silly things that, while important, shouldn't need debating (gay marriage, contraception, etc) instead of doing their jobs and fixing the economy. Of course, politicians of any party typically don't care to do that anyway, but the GOP agenda in recent decades has continuously tried to turn America into a theocracy, to no avail thanks to the Constitution. As for making fun of religion, we do that simply because we don't think anything is above being made fun of. When people bash atheists, we laugh at them. We'll make fun of some of our idols, bands, etc. and we make fun of religion in the same way. Many mistake our debates, videos, and jokes as attacks on their faith, but that's not quite the case. The thing is, we don't make anyone watch those videos, and we don't make anyone sit through verbal attacks on their religious views. We wouldn't want to either. We make such videos so that people have the option to look at them if they so choose, which is what we'd like, and we always hope they change the minds of as many viewers as possible, mainly because the smaller the religious population, the better, at least in our eyes.
This is a seriously shitty place to ask for actual conversation, but I'll take you on, in a series of questions. 1) What makes a god necessary for any society to flourish?
Atheism requires just as much belief as religion, it just has (inherently) less indoctrination. Religion has an actual playbook - no matter the religion - where atheism is more open. Honestly, when the question is do you believe something unproveable, both absolutes are going out on a limb.
The limb I choose to go out on doesn't require me to hate (nearly all religions exclude and demonize some group or another, often many), doesn't deny fundamental realities (again a problem for most), and allows me the freedom to make my own decisions about real-life situations I find myself in, whatever the situation.
Yes, I believe. I believe that through some random process chemicals got pushed into a situation where they started moving differently. Oddly. Interestingly. These chemicals started making more of themselves, ran into problems, got side tracked, perservered through necessity, and ultimately got altered by their environment to be better, better, and even better. Later rather than sooner, we ended up with humans. Things that can help each other but also kill each other. Things that show kindness but also bad attitudes in the worst of ways. We build, we blow up. We save, we kill. We do things that primordial pond scum could never hope to do. We are better than our origions. That is progress. That is good.
Alternatively we were created by a perfect being in his image, and all we can manage is to selfishly start wars over whatever resource is popular at the time, destroy anyone who isn't the same as us/believes in our precise book/has our exact same small-minded view of the world (an omniscient view would not have exceptions). If we are the image of God and this is the best we can do with it? Then we have failed and there is nothing left to save. We're not worth it. Look at our failures in the face of what we've done. If we came from perfection and ended up like this? We're screwed.
If we are God's children, then we've already failed ourselves. We should have no faith in humanity. Alternatively, if we're the evolution of basic chemical compounds attempting to adapt to the world around them, then nope. Not perfect, but working on it. That's progress. That's hope. That's something I can believe in, even in the face of all our imperfections. It says 'we are more great than we suck.'
I speak only for myself
"Atheism requires just as much belief as religion, it just has (inherently) less indoctrination. '
The word 'atheism 'is from the Greek; a=not/without, theos =god.
MY atheism is antithesis of belief . There is no indoctrination because there is no canon or any rules. . I simply do not believe in gods due to a lack of proof. MY atheism is not a religion ,a philosophy, a political position or even a club.
One and only one thing may be inferred from my use of the word 'atheism'; that I do not believe in gods. This is a common position with atheists . It is often called 'soft atheism' in contrast with the atheist who declares "There is no god" or "I believe there is no god" .This position is called 'hard atheism' and is less common. '
I do not agree sorry, though an atheist my take a position that requires beliefs, atheism does not requires any beliefs, only the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities.
I can only speak for myself, and in part is the animosity of realizing that I had been lied to my entire life, and the fact that it is still happening. That's mainly what bothers me- that people are still being indoctrinated based on false/unverifiable premises.
As far as the mocking goes, I think everyone SHOULD criticize and mock bad ideas, ALL bad ideas. This is not like something we are unsure about, it's something we are all pretty sure about but that we continue doing. In all honesty I don't really think that most religious people truly believe what they profess, for if that's the case everyone would welcome death more than life, that's not the case.
But basically it all boils down to this, I have no actual problem with religious people. There's a caveat to that: keep religion out of politics. Religion does NOT deserve to be tax-exempt and it should NOT interfere in the affairs of a nation. They do that, and they can believe in whatever they want without (too much) judgment.
As far as why we're here, I'm still finding out. But I am sure 100% of one thing... We're supposed to leave this place way better than how we found it. I think that's something we can all agree on.
" In all honesty I don't really think that most religious people truly believe what they profess, for if that's the case everyone would welcome death more than life, that's not the case."
You have a very valid point here. In fact identifying a member of the religious population as a "believer" may not actually be valid. Since ALL religions are based on faith which is not the same as belief at all. I would posit that most, if not all, religious follower experience periods of doubt. Though instead asking themselves if there might be a real reason for what they're feeling, they will immediately do their best to dismiss their doubt. And for good reason. When a new member comes into the fold, the church is very proactive in making sure that they receive a sort of "emergency kit" of Bible verses meant to give them a sort of foundation in the faith. Verses that are meant to help them to NOT THINK and reason such as "trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and do NOT lean on your OWN understanding, and God will direct your path" as well as similar verses. So yeah... now if they find themselves reasoning things out it produces a false sense of guilt. that's just a start. They are heavily discouraged to seek or entertain outside "worldly" knowledge and influence. It really amounts to a brain washing of sorts, so they really ought to be pitied.