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Oh yes, now you get an agree for that my friend.
I agree with many of the reasons given above. I also want to say that there is a difference to me between PHILOSOPHY and RELIGION. Those who follow a Christian philosophy, such as "do unto others" and other kind sentiments aren't necessarily Christian. They are good people who believe in living in harmony. However, those who believe in the religion - meaning to me the mythology in the bible of who begat whom & such fanciful stories as Noah & Jonas & the virgin birth, etc. - are as gullible or desperate as children who believe in Santa Claus. I feel the same way about all religions. Hindus have their hundreds of animal gods and Buddhists have all sorts of superstitions that most Christians would find just as silly as they find the bible stories.
I just have to point out that The Golden Rule, do unto others...blah, blah.. is NOT from the bible or christianity. The concept of it seems to have originated in human genetics. We are social animals ans we have to get along, so reciprocity is innate
As for the rest of your post-I am with you! I just don't want christianity getting kudos for something they did not originate..
First theres no proof and if he was real y would he let people get raped beatin to death murderd. Cancer i hate the thought of him
"So, I would like to know what you guys think about people like myself who believe in Jesus Christ. I would like to know why some Athiests seem to hate followers of Jesus. (Not saying everyone feels this way). And also, why some Atheists mock, make fun of, and ridicule my beliefs?"
An Atheist think a believer in God has a false believe about the world. Some atheist don't care much about this kind of believes others care more. In general an atheist believes a religious person to be a person who insist on a false (or at least extremely unlikely) believe that is not backed be evidence. Since the God-hypothesis has been discussed at length for ages the lack of evidence puts it in the category of very unlikely hypothesis. Hence some atheist consider religious people to be acting stupidly when insisting on believing in something as unlikely as anything that they can possibly imagine.
Some Atheists hate religion, some even hate religious people. I think the reason for this hate lies in primarily two factors.
Some theists say outright stupid things. Say Intelligent design and denying evolution theory can only be based on lack of understanding of science or a willful distortion of the matter. So in a scientific sense it is nonsense. The animosity towards these people might reflect upon other religious people.
But mostly the disapproval originates in the view that the religions are instruments of power and that the power of say the church has and is mainly used in an way that is not promoting good - often the opposite. Religion is often used as legitimation for oppression of others in a broad sense both in regards to action and in regards to thought.
Since many atheist consider religious believes to be false, oppressive and dangerous and most atheists are peace loving humanists the way to oppose the abuse in the name of the lord is to speak out against it. by rational argument and by ridicule etc. Specifically mocking and ridicule is effective and morally acceptable ways of fighting oppressive power structures of many kinds.
Any of the points I have made is of cause not a reason to hate any person. But since you asked about hate I have tried to answer in this manner.
I think it interesting that you seem slightly confused by your own position. You claim to be a follower of Jesus but throw God into the mix as if God himself is not relevant.This makes me wonder if you have even read the bible and understand what it is you profess to believe in and follow. Christians have mucked up the entire concept of God and Jesus by doing damage control through the centuries. When the story line proved to be false, they simply changed the story by interpreting the messages to suit the situation. I'm curious about why you have such a devout interest in Jesus. Here we have a character in a story; "The greatest story ever told" as some like to see it. Baby Jesus, born of Mary..father "Unknown but presumed to be God", or so the angels say, King of Kings, feared by the rulers of the day and revered by wise strangers who travelled from afar to anoint the child and present this saviour of mankind with gifts and adoration.."hark the herald angels sing"..lovely story. His mother, a mere teen when told by the angel Gabriel she was to be the one to birth the son of God through immaculate conception, was single and pregnant, a crime punishable by being stoned to death, such is the word of God and the just punishment for any woman who dishonours her father.That was the lords law of the day, she managed to escape her just punishment by convincing Joseph to marry her..even though he had great reservations about this, an angel came to him and explained the whole thing...lucky for Mary, great for baby Jesus.Mary was an outlaw, Jesus almost a bastard..imagine the sigh of relief. Anyway, we all know the story about the birth of the Christ child..the messiah, the saviour of all mankind ,Jesus.Then..what? Jesus is off into obscurity, no records of life events, no stories of his greatness, his achievements,his talents, his good deeds..nada, ziltch, nothing..no one is seeking him out or asking for blessings...no kings are trying to kill him and there's no record of anyone bearing gifts to this King of Kings, this messiah, this saviour of mankind.What happened to all the angels singing and wise men and wonderment? This is supposed to be the son of God, the saviour!!!! Well..he reappears when in his early 30's when he starts his ministry..try to remember, it was a Jewish ministry and Jesus was a devout Jew. he practices his ministry for all of 3.5 years or so, before being killed by the very Jewish leaders of his very own religion..why? Because the Jews were the favourites of God and Jesus was a rebel causing lots of trouble...so they killed him through false witness..what we call lies today, very unbecoming of God's most cherished race amongst men. So..what we have is a person who's claim to fame was never celebrated after his birth, there's no record of Jesus at all until his ministry begins, and this person is then killed by the religious leaders who found him a threat. Seems like a very suspect story doesn't it? But the real problem with Christianity isn't the absurd stories the lack of records or the lies...the real problem is the word of God. Christianity is built upon a false premise, a creation of man, the ideals of man and all the faults of man as they existed at that time. Slavery was Okay, subjugation of women was Okay, Stoning a woman to death for dishonouring her father was Okay, rape was okay, killing anyone who did not believe as you believed was not only Okay, it was your duty as a Christian. Is this what you believe in and practice? Is this truly a religion you can stand behind and say.."It's a beautiful thing"..religion was and is one of the most murderous organizations ever to have existed and continues to kill millions even today. Did you know that all three of the main God based religions are based on the old testament? Islam, Judaism and Christianity all have the same roots. I can't condone such a God and certainly wouldn't consider adoring his son Jesus.Everything I've said here can be verified through the bible, just read it.
"... there's no record of Jesus at all until his ministry begins, and this person is then killed by the religious leaders who found him a threat."
Hi Daniel, you seem to have a pretty good grasp of what a Christian believes. Would it be safe for me to presume that you yourself have experience within the Christian faith? Just curious. If not, kudos, you've done your homework. You do a great job in pointing out that Jesus was himself a Jew who dared to challenge the Jewish leaders, especially as it concerned their own hypocracy. Ironic? So I wanted to make one small, but possibly important flaw in your information. It may actually interest you that there were indeed records concerning Jesus during what is referred as the "silent" or "apocryphal" period where Jesus seems to disappear between the ages of 12/13 to 30 when he reemerges to begin his ministry. Believe it or not a few of these books are contained in the Catholic version of the Bible. Many of these books were purposely denied canonization and kept out of the Bible for a few reasons. A few of these books known as the Apocrypha were for the most part duplications of books already contained in the biblical text that had, say, a few additional lines of scripture that were believed to not be significant enough as to add any value. There are couple+ of additional 2nd books to books already contained in the Bible. If my memory serves me, I think one was a 2nd book to the book of Ruth. There were also very small additional books that did actually reference Jesus during this period, however, if you think the stories in the Bible are absurd, well then you may be in for a treat! If you're interested, you might be able to locate a copy at a local library or bookstore. I'm unsure if they are still in print. There are, I understand, a number of additional Apocryphal books kept by the Catholic church, but it would be virtually impossible to be allowed permission to view them. Makes you kinda wonder, huh?
Sandi, do you think books written by man are worthy evidence of a god? Surely a god that is worthy of acknowledgement would be able to make herself know to everyone across all of history instantly? Consider the fictional story by Douglass Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe, where the Vogons are able to speak to the whole planet at one time and be understand by everyone that heard them. If a fiction can come up with such an ability, how much better would a god be at getting her message across? And any reason that can be offered as to why this god failed to do this, automagically fails that god as being worthy of attention, let alone respect, love and worship.
To fully understand why atheists tend to openly mock your religion, you should start by looking at your religion. Read your bible. In its entirety. It's how I (and I'm sure many others) became an atheist. Compare what goes on in that book to the real world current day. It literally says multiple times that non-believers, and people of different faiths should be put to death, alont with dozens of other atrosities. To base one beliefs on such an atrophic, contradictory, falaced, 2000 year old book seems rediculous to a modern day thinking man.
Also think about this; there are thousands of different religions (even more gods), and they all believe christianity it's rediculous and non - sensible as well. As I'm sure you might see the belief of hinduism to not make sense. Every religion claims to be right, and claims all other to be wrong, but give absolutely no evidense for either claim (which is why faith is necisarry). So basically you have a 1/5000+ chance of being correct about life and not wasting it worshipping something that doesn't exist. It is much more probable that no religion is correct, than 1 out of 5000+.
Another thing to think about is why you are christian. Do you think if your parents were Islamic, that you would still believe in jesus? Think about it.
I would also like for you to look at the definition of the word faith, the word theists glorify so much. It's defined as to believe in something without evidense. And is that not insane sounding to you? To just believe some thing because your told to, without question? Children are essentially brainwashed because they are never taught to question anything. And as soon as they start (as kids are one to do), they are told a scare tactic that an evil creature called the devil was giving us those questions. And that if we give in to them we will burn forever after we die.and that leads me to my next point.
Look at what religion has done to us.look at the wars. Look at the countless deaths in the name of god. The countless suicides by Christian homosexuals who thought they were horrible sinners for how they were born. Religion personally controlled my life for a while, I was constantly scared and asking for forgiveness for shit that wasn't even bad, but might of been a "sin". Christians use "sin" as a was to make people feel about themselves, so that they think they need salvation and get them into their religion. Christians use Hell as a scare tactic, so to scare people onto their religion. And Christians use heaven as to bribe people into their religion. As a christian, I fell into each of those traps (or rather was raised in them) and that's exactly how I felt; trapped. To be free from such thoughts is a sense of freedom you will not understand. I control my life now. And im happy now. And I'm not worried about whoever or whatever thinks about that. I see no evidense for an afterlife, I believe this is our only life, and I believe I'm going to live it learning as much as I can using the scientific method, and being happy.
YES! Religion is so very harmful to the person who believes in it too! It fosters so much self hate, false guilt, etc.! Additionally, religions that preach a message of eternal damnation and separation from God, is in reality not based so much on faith, as much as it is based on fear. It's all packaged in a way so the the believer views himself in bondage in need of liberation while it's actually the complete opposite
"So, I would like to know what you guys think about people like myself who believe in Jesus Christ."
It is none of my business what you believe, unless you make it my business by making it law or proselytizing, otherwise you are welcome to your beliefs no matter how silly I might personally find them to be.
"I would like to know why some Athiests seem to hate followers of Jesus."
Some people hate religion, not simply yours, but all of it. They see it as the single most divisive and destructive force in our nature. I myself don't subscribe to that ideology, though I can see why some might, especially if they have had bad experiences with it. Religion, believe it or not, is sort of like a drug; in moderation it can be neutral and possibly beneficial, but in extremes it is a terrible thing.
"And also, why some Atheists mock, make fun of, and ridicule my beliefs? "
They don't believe them, they find them ridiculous and silly, much like you might think of Scientology or Mormons.
Jessej1s89 - Well, to answer your questions on my front, I can start by saying that I respect your views as you are Christian, I was once christian too when I was younger.
What I think of Christians/Other Religious Groups - I think that if they don't talk about or preach of their divine deity in front of my face as you'd expect a stereo typical form of religious follower, i'm perfectly fine with that, they do their thing, I do mine, and as long as I am not told that I will go to hell if I do not worship God then its all good and I can live with people that would see the point in that, as it would not shed my now atheistic beliefs upon the religious.
Why some people hate religious followers - This one has a few reasons, as mentioned before some Atheists were Christians some time ago and there are many reasons in the bible that lead to some hating religious followers, however some reasons are to do with the person the Atheist has met or had experiences with that drive the Atheist to hate that person or at worst, get a negative view of all religious followers from that.
One example is the average preacher, the kind of one that likes to tell people upfront that you will go to hell if you do not worship this god, and that all other gods and other divine deities are the false god, not many people like being told that they will go to a place filled with demon fire and brimstone to suffer in agony for all eternity.
Another is that say if you had one relative, that you loved and cared for, but that person didn't believe in the religion you did, the bible states that non-believers go to hell, so what would you do if this was the case? if the person you loved (family or other) with all you're heart was going to go to hell and you had no real way of trying to help that person.
Other reasons involve that most Atheists see religion as a whole, something that divides humanity to no end, among the crimes committed on the world stage in the name of one god or another god, blood spilt waging wars in the past (The Crusades) that openly slaughtered Muslims in the name of God (when they were only there to ransack precious gold or silver as they were in a recession at the time and they needed funding).
Sometimes they just think what the bible teaches is not true, that there is no empirical evidence to support the notion of a god that if he so wanted, could make life on earth perfect with the click of his fingers...but does not, a god so cruel that he'd allow all sorts of vicious diseases to ravage the men and women he created, and some of them are very nasty.
I could go on for a while stating reasons, but I will stop stating because i'd be here all day, but these are my answers to your questions, and I hope you found them satisfying enough for a debate.
The Bible says that there are no marriages in heaven so why would anyone believe that they will know their former family members in the golden cube? The whole purpose of being there is to sing God's praises 24/7 for all eternity.
Other religions have better afterlifes, at least for some people, but none of them are really family friendly.
While I respect your right to believe what you want, I do not respect the belief in any god. Would you respect someone who believes in Santa or the Tooth Fairy? That is what your belief amounts to in the eyes of an atheist.
Even then we would respect followers of Jesus more if many of us were not 100 times more scientifically and biblically literate then moray christians.
You follow a god who, if he were real, killed 42 children for calling a man bald 2nd Kings 2:23
You follow a god who could not keep his angels from having sex with human women Gen 6:4
Those and hundreds of verses like them are why we mock your beliefs.
Thanks for asking. I think your eyes are clear and bright but you're not there. Anyone who sees invisible anything and talks to it expecting it to "take the wheel" is nuttier than fruitcake. Please don't drown your babies in a bathtub if your invisible friend tells you to...
"your eyes are clear and bright but you're not there."
Zombies? "She's not there." I love that song.
Here's my two cents, I work in an industry that very regularly is in Christian churches of every sect. The thing I've noticed in my experience is this: people are people, I'm sure that's a bit cliche but it's true. Religion isn't the line that divides, it comes down to an asshole being an asshole because they are an asshole. lol Religion is just a tool they use not the dividing line whether your talking about an Atheist making fun of a religion or vice versa.
I've met some really cool Christians in my various travels to different churches but I've also met some rather vile ones as well. I can say the same for Atheists. People are people. An asshole is an asshole regardless of religion. A cool person is a cool person regardless of religion.
This may have come out more like 25 cents rather than 2 cents.
Everyone has the right to their opinion, and everyone has an obligation to criticize, ridicule and ostracize people whose opinions are ridiculous. That's how a society progresses. As my peers have said, some of us just hate religion- all religion. The reason we hate it is because those ridiculous beliefs hold us back, as individuals and as a society. I can have no respect for a person more concerned with the opinion of an imaginary figure in the sky (who, by definition, made some children be born with leukemia and others born into sexual slavery), than they are with the well being of their fellow man.
What's most frustrating is that you don't seem dull or bigoted; you're fully capable of using fundamental logic and reason, that's in the brain of every human, to abolish your god and live a life free of faith and for your fellow man. But you don't. Afraid, entrapped, apathetic, whatever the reason; adherence to religious belief shows that the believer is more concerned with their comfort and 'salvation' than they are for those humans suffering around them (real suffering, starving and dying and caught in wars started by religions, for example). So, not to speak for my peers and being as polite as I can, that's why I loathe your and all other religions, why I have zero respect for you or any other believer, and why I will always go out of my way to insult, embarrass and ridicule any believer and their beliefs always. Because I think you are bad for humanity, in every possibly sense. And you choose to be that.
I don't hate people, nor do I necessarily hate religion. What I feel is that religion ultimately does more harm than good. It can be
psychologically harmful for a multitude of reasons, and in some cases can help people justify their harsh judgments and abuse of others. It can stunt educational growth when parents choose to ignore science, deny evolution, and misunderstand the scientific method. Read about history and you'll learn that religion has been the cause of death, war and heinous crimes. On the other hand there are religious organizations that do wonderful things for people around the world, which is positive up until the point that the only purpose is to be a missionary. These are just a few reasons that some atheists are also anti-theist. I don't hate religious people, I'm not against religious people. I wish all people could live in universal harmony.
It goes without saying that all people carry their beliefs differently. And I do believe individuals have freedom to believe as they wish.
It goes without saying that all people carry their beliefs differently. And I do believe individuals have freedom to believe as they wish.
I think you'll find that Atheists are not into the hate business, we leave that to religious folk of all types. We are more into learning, seeking truth, discoveries, logic, reason...you know, science and humanistic philosophies. For the most part through the years, atheists have practised live and let live. The thinking was, religion does no harm, but history, evidence and the practices of God based religions has proven otherwise and must be stopped. More and more , religions try to creep into government and influence laws...in the middle east the governments of many nations are run by religious clerics and what you'll find is, this doesn't go well for the people. My advice is simple. If you are going to profess a firm belief in a religion, know as much as you can about it before doing so...or look like a fool when asked serious questions.
Many reasons, but let's just start with the premise that the God of the bible is in fact real. Well how can you follow a murderer? I don't care who you are or what you are or for what reason you think, to kill every single person on the planet in a great flood is beyond cruel and reasonable. And for that alone I would never follow that God. I would never follow a God who claims to give free will, and then holds burning in hell for all eternity over your head if you choose not to believe in him. I can't believe in a god who allows innocent children to suffer needlessly. I can't believe in a good who so many Christians claim answers prayers, but does not answer the prayers of women being raped or children sodomized. I can not follow a god like that. But more importantly it just reveals to me that there is no God. A real true loving caring wise God would be much better than the God of the bible. To have all that power and wisdom and to have made that many mistakes again proves there is no God. I could go on and on. But that's some of it. A lot of people on here have given great answers. Really soak them up and then truly ask yourself, is this God real or do I believe in him because that's how I was raised, and lam afraid to not believe? Think about it.
its a common misconception that an atheist person is different from a theist person in other ways than having a disbelief of nearly all concepts that are regarded today as theistic. truthfully, you must reassess your thoughts in that respect. all people are different in small ways, every person is comparable in grand ways. each day is a chance to strive for the answers to questions human kind should have answered by now but the culture we inherit always and without exception asks for our loyalty. It should be the goals of a culture that attract its followers, not fear of suffering or abandonment. As a caucasian american male i have inherited a culture that surely gives me 'carte blanche' in many ways and for that i certainly am embarassed. However, that is not where i keep my loyalty and thus i am one of many persons marginalized by the (let's be honest) Christian Majority, the caucasian majority, the capitalist minority and the illusory American Dream. people should be angry at a groups who ignore and stigmatize those who are marginalized in growing numbers. The fact is im an atheist and an unapologetic blasphemer in the eyes of many, but to some i remain a steadfast, unformally educated, seeker of truths and speaker of inspiration. I hold people accountable to what they believe in the context of conversation but violence begets violence because we are a competitive species and most all atheists know and embrace that value just as many people of other faiths do.
Just imagine that you went to another country where everyone around you believed in Shiva.
If you say outloud that you dont believe, the whole room becomes tense and you know that there are stories of people being killed over it. You would feel like I do in America.
People, even our president, thank god and bring it up all the time. It's on the money in my hand... the subject is thrown into random points throughout every day of my life and I am so outnumbered and looked at as so rude and mean-spirited if I ever were to say a word openly about my non belief...
It can be very hard to take the stream of people who try to "save" me too.
I respect your humanity. But, I will never respect the belief of the billion who believe in Shiva or the billions who believe in Yahweh. It's all madness and just being born in a different family who taught you a different thing.
Hello jessej1s89, personally I have no problem with someone else's beliefs if those beliefs enable them to deal with the difficulties life throws at them, if it helps them to be decent people with respect for others. The only things I have problems with are when believers try (and some do) and brow beat folk like me into converting and more so when believers commit all manner of atrocities in the name of their god. But there is something closer to home than over zealous witnessing and terrorism, that is hypocrisy. I was raised as a Roman Catholic and as a young child I had the misfortune to witness and experience the hypocrisy and the domestic violence that hid behind it. The fact that others in the congregation knew and did nothing, the fact that the priest knew and did nothing shocked me to my very core. I see much more hypocrisy now across all Christian denominations. I know that a great many folk who follow the Christian faith are decent people, but I often ask myself why - if they know of the rot - those good people do nothing to remove it?
Something that lacks questioning lacks a solid fundation. You ask why atheist redicule (religions) and the answer is quite simple, we've asked the questions that logically eliminate the idea of a magical entity that created everything with a purpose and now is bored and needs our full devotion. If you ask the right questions then you can become an atheist yourself. Ex. Who created the creator? What was the role of this newly created creator before he created everything? What was the purpose of the creator who created the creator? What was he or she or it doing before it creates god? There was a point were nothing existed, now you wanna tell me that there was a purposeless entity residing in nothingness, and then some how had the intelligence to decide to create a creator. This creator then just chilled for eternity until it decided to create our universe. Now his role is to babysit us even though we are a recent phenomenon (relatively speaking) we have been here as fully human for only a few million years, but the universe is over 14 billion years old. Why did he wait so long? What was the purpose of the cosmos before humanity, if the "creation" was made for us? Now if you want to say that god has always been, then why not apply the same logic to a universe that is eternal process of destruction and creation. If you ask the right questions you just might unbrainwash yourself. I open the door for you to walk through...
"Respect for your opinion, respect for mine as well."
It is very very important to distinguish between the following two:
- respect for an opinion
- respect for the right to an opinion
Your right to an opinion is entitled to our unconditional respect and approval. It is one of the basic pillars of democracy and civil society. But your right to have your opinion respected by us is non existent. Opinions must, as all ideas, earn their merit in the free marketplace of ideas.
Yea , I was tempted to make a similar clarification but didn't want to make another post since this topic is expanding like a forest on fire during a dry sunny day.
Thank you for your very respectful inquiry.
I'm married to a Christian. We both used to be Catholic; I quit entirely without looking for a replacement and she shopped around for one. So my tolerance for, and understanding of, religion is very high, but that doesn't mean that I won't sometimes call "Bullshit!" when my step-daughter (very Christian) or someone from my wife's church says something intolerant. I attend a weekly, Friday night thing called "Life Group" with my wife at other church members' homes and have gotten to know a lot of them pretty well. We sometimes talk about jobs, science fiction, movies, projects, etc. But sometimes they say things that require refutation, such as "homosexuality is a lifestyle choice." When someone says that, I speak up. Most of the time, they're just studying biblical passages relevant to the previous Sunday's sermon Bible study class.
Most of the people there know I'm atheist, but a few weeks ago, one woman opened up with an anti-atheist joke. I asked her if she would ever tell a joke about black people with a black person in the room.
If you want to spend your time believing things exist that have no known method to verify their existence, that's your business, and I, as an atheist have no issue with it. But when those beliefs start affecting others' life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, then we'll have words.
Have a great day!