Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
The truth of God’s existence is independent of your belief about Gods existence. Divine justice is an attribute of God that you seem to comprehend but just disagree with because you are choosing not to follow him. Actions have consequences in this life, and the next. If we do not have eternal souls then there is no such thing as injustice.
"The truth of God’s existence is independent of your belief about Gods existence."
I don't believe that, unless you can properly evidence it.
"Divine justice is an attribute of God that you seem to comprehend but just disagree with because you are choosing not to follow him. "
No, as I said I am not nor can I choose not to follow what I don't believe exists, there is no choice to be made, I told this the last time you made the claim.
"Actions have consequences in this life, and the next."
They have consequences in this life, that's axiomatic. There is no evidence that we survive our own deaths in any meaningful way. Except perhaps temporarily in the minds of those who know us.
" If we do not have eternal souls then there is no such thing as injustice."
Justice is a human concept, it actually doesn't exist in the sense that human rights and money don't really exist, they're just concepts we use to make life more bearable. I have heard no evidence that souls exist, only bare assertions like the one you make here.
Sheldon, if you don’t believe something exists does that cause it to not exist?
"Sheldon, if you don’t believe something exists does that cause it to not exist?"
No, anymore than believing they exist causes them to exist. Though what that has to do with my post I'm not sure. You made several assertions about the existence of a deity and an afterlife, these are meaningless to me as I don't believe they exist, unless someone can demonstrate proper evidence to support the claim.
What proper evidence would you accept?
"What proper evidence would you accept?"
That's not for me to say, the claim is not mine after all.
It’s not for you to say what would convince you something is true? How could anyone else know if you don’t?
@aj777
I agree with Sheldon on this one... I do not truly know what would convince me of a god. But your all knowing god does, so either he doesn't exist or does not want me to know he exists at this time. Either way not my problem
Maybe he has given you enough evidence but you are blind to it because you want there to be no God. If he doesn’t exist, no problem I agree. If he does exist that is an eternal problem.
@AJ777: "If he doesn’t exist, no problem I agree. If he does exist that is an eternal problem."
That sounds like Pascal's wager. Do you recommend simulated belief?
"you are blind to it because you want there to be no God."
That's an unwarranted assumption. I'm sure many atheists would like there to be a god offering the opportunity for eternal life in paradise. However, there's no more evidence for it than for any of the other gods, fairy tales, and legends made up by people.
@aj777
if he is the all powerful being than he would be able to overcome my blindness. If he is as weak as you feel humans are then maybe his attempts are weak. Again either way not my problem.
Also maybe you are to easily convinced?
Burny, if God exists he necessarily can do anything that is logically possible. He cannot create square circles, married bachelors, or people in his image that choose to trust him of their own free will while being so visible to them that they would have no choice but to believe in him.
Not true if is real he follows no logic... he could create square circles, he could marry bachelors and 100% could prove himself to me!
If you disagree, he is worthless and also not real! He would not be supernatural at that point he would be natural, if that is true then he would be testable ! Then you also should have proof!
How it possible to do that which is logically impossible?
Well if your god lives out of space and time as the video you posted on this site. He follows no logic...
"How it possible to do that which is logically impossible?"
It's not, but that is what omnipotence means, and precisely what miracle are. What's logical about a virgin birth, conceived by a deity in the form of a ghost?
My understanding of miracles and omnipotence are that God can do that which is logically possible. God can operate outside the physical laws of the universe because he created them. He cannot for instance choose to not exist.
"God can do that which is logically possible. God can operate outside the physical laws of the universe "
Try again, that's an axiomatic contradiction. I am starting to see why people have given up asking you to demonstrate evidence your claims, but any chance you can demonstrate any evidence for any of that?
If the first verse in the Bible is possible, those things must be as well.
"How it possible to do that which is logically impossible?"
Perhaps you should address that, since you are a christian and believe in miracles? How is it possible to cause a genocidal global flood that requires more water than is in the earths atmosphere, and then get rid of it all without a trace, and leaving no geological evidence? Where's the logic in that?
"Burny, if God exists he necessarily can do anything that is logically possible. He cannot create square circles, married bachelors, or people in his image that choose to trust him of their own free will while being so visible to them that they would have no choice but to believe in him."
This claim seems to contradict the notion of miracles, as there is nothing logical about miracles, quite the opposite in fact. If a deity can make alter or suspend the physical laws of the universe with impunity, the it could quote clearly will things into reality that are illogical. You are trying to have your cake and eat it, and this i find is often how apologetics constructs arguments, with illogical and contradictory ideas, and no evidence of course.
http://pmoser.sites.luc.edu/idolanon/GodMoreObvious.pdf
"Maybe he has given you enough evidence but you are blind to it because you want there to be no God. If he doesn’t exist, no problem I agree. If he does exist that is an eternal problem."
Presenting open ended assumptions is neither evidence nor argument. If your deity exists all he has to do is let me know, after all the premise is that he created me with a purpose of his own design in mind, to hide from seems illogical. I reject utterly the notion that I am motivated to not believe a deity exists, there is no bias in my disbelief, and I apply the same criteria for belief in deities as i do for all else, that the evidence be commensurate to the claim. Do you believe in Ganesha, or Vishnu? Don't forget I apply the same objective criteria here, whereas you deny all the deities I do but one., ye I've seen you demonstrate no evidence for it's existence. Though admittedly I am new here.
"It’s not for you to say what would convince you something is true?"
Correct, why would it be, it's not my claim?
"How could anyone else know if you don’t?"
I never claimed they could know, why would I? If people make a claim it's for them to evidence that claim. I don't believe their claim because their argument are fallacious, and they never offer proper evidence to support the claim. If you have any evidence present it and we can examine it. You've already offered arguments common to apologetics, but they are known to be fallacious and flawed, and when I offered a comprehensive answer of why this was the case you dismissed it without any explanation, simply accusing me of not understanding but failing to say what I'd misunderstood or why.
Hey Sheldon, sorry not meaning to attack you personally. Do you think its possible to be truly unbiased? In what way are these arguments fallacious?
"In what way are these arguments fallacious?"
I already gave you an expansive answer to that.
"Do you think its possible to be truly unbiased?"
Not if you start with unevidenced assertions based on faith, no. The best methods we have to ensure objective conclusions are science, and logic. Both of which have done much to refute religions claims, texts and apologetics. .
We don't know that gods are real. If you have proof the god you believe in is real, please provide your proof NOW
@AJ777
So your telling me you have read the subjects I mentioned objectively, and you still don't have doubts.
That's hilarious, your probably lying, but if not I'm rather laughing at your naiveness or sad by your god given intelligence.
I myself, understand the deep emotional yearning for god, I too was brainwashed as a child.
Hey Closet, I have read on those subjects. Probably not possible for anyone to read completely objectively. I certainly have doubts at times, I would bet almost all Christians do. I don’t see my faith as only having an emotional component. I think it could also be said that there can be emotional rejection of God.
Question for @AJ777
So I was raised Christian, from a very young age I always tried to pray, speak in tongues, and "feel gods love" but it never happened. You got to understand as a small child I didn't have the ability to reason like an adult so when it came to religion I really did believe god was real, I tried man, I really did. You cannot force belief, you either do or you don't and from a very young age I didn't feel any of the "magic". No matter how hard I tried I couldn't.
Why would god create me knowing I wouldn't believe in him no matter how hard I tried, knowing the stress it would put on me and my family? Then turn around and set my life up to be a upstanding citizen with a strong protective complex who goes out if his way to do good for society just to throw me in hell later?
At least he could have made me with a criminal complex, I wouldn't have to worry about my truck payments if I was a bank robber or drug dealer.
What a dick.
Pages