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LogicFTW's picture
2. I very very strongly

2. I very very strongly believe god does not exist. It is on the same level that I believe the sun will rise from the east tomorrow.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I like that.

I like that.

Sheldon's picture
I imagine you do, but as

I imagine you do, but as usual you seem unwilling to distinguish atheism from the opinion of an atheist.

Nothing you have posted since I have been here suggests this disingenuous misinterpretation is not deliberate on your part.

disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of a deity or deities.

You either believe a deity exists, or you don't. Only the first option is a belief.

Sheldon's picture
The problem, and it's a

The problem, and it's a common one used by religious apologists, is Wheezy is trying to place agnosticism (a knowledge claim not a belief position) between theism and atheism (logical negation of each other). Except one can occupy either position of theism or atheism and still remain an agnostic.

So what are these categories of belief positions between atheism and theism that are not knowledge claims?


Sheldon's picture
being unsure is its own

being unsure is its own separate category.

Therefore, being 'unsure/neutral' should be added to the forums options.
No, this is still wrong. Unsure or sure are knowledge claims. Believe (theist) or do not believe (atheist) are belief positions.

As I said tortured semantics, I knew you'd go this way. Like your doubts about doubts thread, you now want to claim people believe a deity doesn't exist, rather than disbelieve it does exist. Which was your first claim I objected to.

Atheism is the disbelief or absence of belief in a deity. Theism is the belief in a deity or deities. There are no degrees of belief in between only knowledge claims.

CyberLN's picture
No. Beliefs are not opinions

No. Beliefs are not opinions about actual things. The words ‘actual things’ implies tangible existence. Belief in tangibly existing items is not required. Belief is only required for that which has no tangible evidence.

Sheldon's picture
"Beliefs about any subject

"Beliefs about any subject can fall into a middle, neutral, category. "

No it doesn't, that's describing a knowledge claim, not a belief, but by all means tell us what that category of "BELIEF" is, without using the words knowledge or knowing. I anticipate either a glaring contradiction or some fairly tortured semantics.

Or of course you walking away reticent as so often happens when your apologetics are dismantled.

Sheldon's picture
What youve described as

What you've described as neutral is a knowledge position not a belief position. The only category you tried to squeeze in here was "holds a spectrum of beliefs about whether God exists or none at all."

1. List 3 beliefs about whether God exists for us that don't include theism or atheism.
2. Holding no beliefs about whether a deity exists is demonstrably atheism.

Anonymous's picture
could you please tell me from

could you please tell me from your perspective what God is?

chimp3's picture
Curious: "...what god is?"

Curious: "...what god is?"

Ha! Triick question! God is not.

Anonymous's picture
Why do you believe there is

Why do you believe there is no God? how did you get to that conclusion? where did you get your knowledge from to get to the conclusion?

LogicFTW's picture
1. Total lack of real

1. Total lack of real testable evidence
2. large reasoning and logic holes in the presentation of most any god I ever heard of beyond the lack of evidence
3. Availability of much better supported answer (science)
4. awful bloody history of most religions, with continued persecution of minorities and genders
5. basic common sense, like how we can easily dismiss santa claus or tooth fairy or other widely circulated mythical ideas.

mickron88's picture
do the research bro...do you

do the research bro...do you know what google is right?

don't ask this stupid idiotic questions here...

"perspective what God is?"

ask this to an atheist?
research. then come back and ask something that makes sense..

cause you're not

watchman's picture
@ Curious .....

@ Curious .....

You first ......Which god ....?

Anonymous's picture
I have research meany

I have research meany religion (mostly main stream) and Listen to the responses and reasoning as member of the same group that share their believes in God, what type, and what it represents to them.

Now I want to hear from you guys your reasoning.

The reason why I don't give you a direct question is because I don't have one. I'm still searching.

edit: meant to say answer to your question

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Curious

@ Curious

My stance is that I am an atheist i.e That no god or gods have satisfied the burden of proof to demonstrate their existence.

I am anti religious: i.e I loathe organised religion for the lies, hypocrisy, injury and mendacity it inflicts, not just on its own adherents, but on the general population.

(Edited for clarity)

watchman's picture
@Curious .....

@Curious .....

In the absence of a specific question I can only give a general response......

There is no evidence for any deity .... while there is actual evidence against the existence some deities.

That's pretty much it ..... without a more "focused" line of enquiry .

Cognostic's picture
You are confounding

You are confounding Agnosticism with Atheism. Agnosticism is KNOWLEDGE. Atheism is BELIEF. I make the argument that everyone on the planet is agnostic. That or they are using a definition of knowledge that is not separable from 'Delusion."

Anonymous's picture


"confounding Agnosticism with Atheism"
I don't see a difference as Knowledge is still a Belief of knowing/assuming something under the credential that you give the source.

Please explain to me the difference.

Sheldon's picture
Have you discovered any

Have you discovered any objective evidence for the existence of a deity or deities that you could demonstrate?

I never have, hence I don't believe the claim that any deity exists. It doesn't help the claim that theists can agree on virtually nothing beyond the main claim. Or that it is a fact that humans create fictional deities and fictional religious beliefs to embellish their created deity.

Furthermore not once has anyone ever demonstrated objective evidence for a single supernatural claim.

Anonymous's picture
For example quantum science

For example quantum science has proven that everything is energy.
when I hear or read about other Gods.
I can help but wonder if what some people call God might just be that energy?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Curious

@ Curious

"if what some people call God might just be that energy?"

If that is so then the burden of proof would be on those describing energy as 'god' to prove it has godlike qualities.
For instance are made in its image? ( For Christians)
Will it supply me 72 virgins? (for Moslems)
Will it give me 1600 gentile slaves (for Jews)
and so on for whichever god you want to try and prove.
Otherwise whoever makes that claim for a new god will have to define "godlike qualities and attributes" and prove that their defined energy has them.

Not so easy.

Anonymous's picture
Old man shout i'm not

Old man shout i'm not calling this energy as a new God, it was just my own wondering in my search of what it is that people projected perspectives on what they might call God,

LogicFTW's picture
I think you need to start

I think you need to start with commonly held definition of god.


You will see words in that definition like "perfect" "infinite" "worshipped" "ruler of universe" "requires worship"

So energy by it self does not fit the commonly held definition of god. It most certainly does not need/want worship.

Cognostic's picture
It does not matter what you

It does not matter what you call it. You believe it is a God or you believe it is energy. You are an atheist or a theist.

Anonymous's picture
if anyone can please tell me

if anyone can please tell me how to respond to post here? thank you.

Old Man Shout. I can empathize with you on your sentiments. My ancestors were almost completely erase from the earth, when the conquistadors arrive. It gives me a lot of sorrow to listen so many nationalities telling me their history and suffering in the name of God.

So far on my research on this particular part of the subject. I think the word God have been used as a shield.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Curious

@ Curious

"if anyone can please tell me"

Its best to use the @ symbol and the intials or name of the person to whom you are replying
Then a quote if any you wnat to reply to from ther post. It makes things much clearer as the posts can slip out of order
Also if you edit a post after doing the math thingy and substantially change the meaning put the edit below the post like (edited for clarity) or Word "xyz" inserted.

Oh and BTW, welcome curious. We are a friendly lot. Especially Tin Man who is like a frisky but uncontrollable spaniel and Mykcob4 who is more like a very alert Dobermann.

Anonymous's picture
@ Old Man Shouts

@ Old Man Shouts

"if anyone can please tell me"

Thank you so much for taking the time to educate me.
I'm really thankful at you welcoming me. I thought you guys will have similar extreme reactions as some people I have met had.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Curious

@ Curious
Nah we are a friendly mob here, the americans wont be online for a while, Im just about turning in in Western Australia, the Brits and Europeans will be here momentarily!

But with minor spats and unless a theist is particularly annoying we can be quite polite to all who merit it! Tin Man has a wicked sense of humour so be warned don't be drinking anything fizzy when reading one of his posts..I nearly lost a keyboard last time...very messy.

Anonymous's picture
@Old Man Shouts

@Old Man Shouts

"Thanks for the heads up!

have a good rest, night.


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