Intellectualize the spiritual
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Well said. GH is a fraud and charlatan. Grandiose claims that disappear like mist in the sun. I have no time for wooo.
Ya I have some fun leading by the chin. Most believers have huge wonders about atheism so some of my responses are a collective of those wonders. Because most of the "real ones" would never waste their time coming here. I think there is even scriptures telling us not to bother with it lol. So I'll give you some the core of my pricipals for coming here. I'm not the author and perfector of faith. It's not on me to change anyone or anything. I gain nothing from what anyone believes or doesn't believe. If anyone wants to know God? They'll do whatever it takes. Other than that I just have fun with it. If God doesn't exist? Then there's nothing to get upset about, because none of this is going to matter lol. Aren't protoplasm reactions awesome?
Did the Jesus character do anything special after his resurrection? What happened to all of those zombies that came out of their graves and went to visit their buddies in Jerusalem?
What you've just told me is that you're dishonest and that you're here to participate in masturbatory self-aggrandizement and stirring of the pot.
"Ya I have some fun leading by the chin."
Also known as leaving your chin unprotected to bait someone into taking the shot which you hope to slip and counter.
"Because most of the "real ones" would never waste their time coming here."
Another bait. I'm supposed to ask if you're a "real one (believer) or not and then you'll try to straw-man me.
"I think there is even scriptures telling us not to bother with it lol."
Here, I'm supposed to ask why you're here, then? Except the bible says the opposite...that you ARE supposed to teach and correct us godless heathens, and attempt to lead us to salvation. You're baiting again, though.
Then you carry on, in this same vein:
"I'm not the author and perfector of faith. It's not on me to change anyone or anything. I gain nothing from what anyone believes or doesn't believe. If anyone wants to know God? They'll do whatever it takes."
Again, I think I'm supposed to say something like "if you gain nothing, why are you here" to which you already have a prepared response. You're bating, yet again.
"Other than that I just have fun with it."
This is the only honest thing that came from this whole post. You're here to have fun. You're attempting to use the people in this forum as a source of amusement, as if we are some sort of jesters to make you laugh and feel superior. Not gonna get it from me, bub. I believe this will be the last time I respond to anything you have to say and I certainly not only hope that others will follow suit, leaving you out in the cold but that the moderators will see you for the troll you are and ban you.
"If God doesn't exist? Then there's nothing to get upset about, because none of this is going to matter lol."
Another attempted bait. I'm supposed to see this as a potential "chink in the armor" and pursue it. Not gonna happen.
"Aren't protoplasm reactions awesome?"
Ahhhh...the brush-off. The last, silly comment which is intended to show how little you care. Thing is, though, you do care. You're here for a reason and I know what that reason is, now. I can only hope the others catch on and take your toys away.
This guy, right here, is why we can't have nice things.
It's fun because we don't know the ending. That's what it all leads up to. What would an atheist forum be if there weren't a theist? Neither position has the complete perspective or answers.
"We don't ask for anything but evidence, dude...And you have none. No theist does"
A fact he's determined not to address at all. One wonders what's left to debate, when someone thinks it's rational to believe something unsupported by any objective evidence, because the belief makes them feel better about reality.
The real low point for me was when he claimed that my atheism might be the devil fooling me.
Now how many times have we seen theists try to prop up unevidenced superstion with....more unevidenced superstition.
Yeah, I'm new to this forum but I'm catching on to this guy pretty fast. Definitely strikes me as a time-waster; One of those people who has nothing to do but try to engage other people in irrational, pointless conversations.
And does he think THIS is a debate?
He is a time wasting presuppositionalist. Not really worth talking to. One blind assertion after another because the God he believes in is presupposed as the reality behind everything. It is accepted as true as an apriori. He does not have to prove it.
The mind of a presuppositionalist is like a circle, like their logic.
Thu, 02/28/2019 - 06:57
".....I don't have any satisfactory answers\evidence anyways. No one will....Only God coming over to have dinner...Will be satisfactory."
Having admitted you have no answers/evidence, it's pretty dishonest to then portray our scepticism as unreasonably demanding absolute proof. You need to focus on the fact you can demonstrate absolutely nothing to us, that can objectively justify your belief, and stop the wild and dishonest speculation about what we will or will not accept, IF you could demonstrate anything.
You can keep up this dishonest charade that we are demanding absolute proof all you want, but we can all see that you're simply obfuscating, as by your own admission you cannot demonstrate any objective evidence at all to support that belief.
Also this "wow I haven't the time to answer you all now" line is nonsense, when you could simply have offered the best evidence you have in your OP, yet you offered nothing, and so yet again we can see you are simply holding an empty bag.
Bingo, you've told me no one can offer objective evidence. Asking humans for a unicorn. So why do you keep asking for it? Do you think one day I'll say God's coming over for dinner tonight. You're welcome to come over if you would like to OMG. Sheldon, God's not going to "show up" until it's time to take it all down and start something new. So until then, all we have is our choice to love by faith. If your left brain logic only, can't or won't give that an honest life long persuit? And you need more than a life we didn't ask for. On a world we don't know anything about. In a universe we can't imagine. With a death with a choice made, and the ending left up to wonder. Then by gosh, by golly, let's put every ounce into hope that you got everything right and didn't miss a thing. Amen lol. Onwards to nowhere and nothingness.
I'll save you a seat for dinner next Tuesday night. We can talk more about how cool protoplasm reactions are to different temperatures.
The reason we keep asking for objective evidence is because we keep hearing the god claim.
Theist: God exists
Atheist: Until you provide evidence, I don't believe you.
We need evidence to support belief in this matter, so in response to theistic claims for a god or gods, we will continue to request it.
But no one has it. Therefore a Creator is not possible? That's where we can hang our hats up and rest?
Not so. This is a common misconception about atheism. The theist is making the claim, atheists are those who don't believe it for whatever reason. I am not saying there is no creator or a creator is or is not possible. I'm saying I don't believe the claim based on the evidence available to me at this time.
Well said. There was a time in my life when I wasn't ready for it either. Nothing anyone could have said or did would have gotten through to me. What they said however has since collided with me as I've grown. Makes more and more sense in little nuggets of truth along the journey to belief. The conceptions of athiesm is why I was drawn here. The causes and conditions. I don't believe that either theist or athiest need all the answers. We are all at stages of development and my only hope that what I share with others will be able to help them in any kind of way. Not just here but everywhere in my life. All I have is from my experience, I had to know if God exists. I had everything and it wasn't enough. When I let go of doubt, fear, and care, and made "the jump" to believe. I found freedom like I've never had. I don't know what it will look like in others lives to give everything that you are to find out. So I'm just here to say, that when I jumped. I was caught. Every true believer out there, had to take the proverbial "jump". As will everyone who wants to do it the way it's been designed. I'm sorry, I wish it we're easier or another way. But we will never be in a position to tell God how to do things. Trust, Faith, Hope, and Love. The greatest things in life yet the hardest hmm imagine that.
You need to stop this endless and duplicitous assertion that you have access to some esoteric hidden truth. Or else offer some objective for it.
You believe this because it makes you feel better, and that's clearly more important to you than the truth. We all get that, it's hard to miss it in your posts tbh. However lying about it by claiming the atheists here disbelieve it because they are "not ready" is pathetic.
It has nothing to do with "being ready" or any of the other saccharine rhetoric you use. It's about you choosing the crutch of superstition, because you're unable to cope with reality without that delusion, whereas others here have refused to delude themselves this life is a stepping stone to a fictional afterlife where all the pain and suffering of this world is magically extirpated.
So do please stop pretending that disbelief is some sort of intellectual, rational, or emotional flaw atheists have. When It is the other way around.
Objectivity takes courage and integrity. Delusional comfort blankets don't.
"Therefore a Creator is not possible? That's where we can hang our hats up and rest?"
There are lots of Creator Gods. Why don't you believe in one of them instead of the Israelite/Hebrew/Jewish deities? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Creator_gods
Titus 1:14 (CEV) = "Don’t pay any attention to any of those senseless Jewish stories and human commands. These are made up by people who won’t obey the truth."
You came here to preach and proselytise, and keep making the same unevidenced claims, so people are just pointing out you can't demonstrate any evidence for your claims. It is you who is making demands, that we should share your vapid beliefs, and accept archaic superstitions without any evidence.
There is literally nothing one cannot believe using the empty rhetoric of faith, so please don't waste our time with such nonsense. I've read the second half of that post four times, and it is still incomprehensible gibberish sorry.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity? It's none and you know it, hence the verbose verbiage you're posting, in the hope we will somehow not notice the "Emperor has no clothes".
Hahahaha you are my favorite Sheldon. "I've read the second half of that post four times, and it is still incomprehensible gibberish sorry."
Read the third sentence of that post 4 times *wink*wink*
You know, if someone told me when I was agnostic, that God's word says that the enemy has the power to blind the minds of those who have not received the love of the truth? I would be so pissed off at such a claim that I would have put so much more extreme in my persuit to have God remove the blinders. You actually have that knowledge and you still let everything block you??? Wow Sheldon, listen if anyone wants to know God? Then they humble down and start where we all start. By simply believing, and letting it grow into seeing. Do it by it's design, or don't. "Every knee will bow" you really want to wait for that kind of evidence before choosing? What is it that you think you'll lose by giving into believing? Or even just acting like you believe to see if any blinders become revealed? Yours and dogs last posts just showed so much about your fears. Makes me think of one of my friends who talks to athiests. When they say that they are athiests, he says "oh, I'm sorry, what happened?" Lol I'm not trying to offend, I tend to mirror things as an old habit. And as some athiests (not all) will look at believers as "dumb asses" we look to you with broken hearts and wonder if there is anything we can do for you. Look at the cores of those beliefs for more than half of a second. If God does indeed turn out to be the reality? Then everything I've said makes perfect sense and my genuine love for you was not misplaced. If not, then I've lost nothing and will never know. Only believers get the win\win *wink*wink. As much as that sounds like nails on a chalkboard. Athiests will be the only ones affected if wrong. Oh boy, I can feel the responses to this one already. You know it's possible to not respond and go to another post. That would really show that you're done with this "preaching delusional religious fanatic" lol. Just throwing it out there, in case you forgot that was an option. ; ) Either way I love and care for you the same.
1. "You know, if someone told me when I was agnostic," You are still agnostic. You "KNOW" nothing at all about God or Gods that you can offer evidence or reason for. All you do is spout inane assertions. If you KNEW something you would be able to share it.
2. MORE INANE BULLSHIT: "Sheldon, listen if anyone wants to know God? Then they humble down and start where we all start. By simply believing, and letting it grow into seeing." YOU BELIEVE IN GOD BY BELIEVING FIRST AND THEN YOU WILL BELIEVE. (IGNORANCE AT ITS BEST!)
looks like you have a new Lover Sheldon.
I'm sorry you're depressed, and can't cope without the comfort blanket of archaic superstitions, but that's your choice, so again your insistence that there's something wrong with anyone who accepts objective reality rather than what your trying pedal without a shred of evidence, is absurd nonsense.
You need to find a church and a pulpit, as this forum is for debate.
So one more time....What objective evidence can you demonstrate for any deity?
You came here to preach. So every time you repeat your vapid claims I'll point out you can't demonstrate any evidence for them.
If you dont like this then stop repeating your vapid claims, and try actually offering sonething tangible for debate. Instead of your endless tedious proselytizing.
Ummmm ya. I find it hard to sympathize with any theists view, at all. No matter what religion it may be...it is the complete abject failure in reason that is most troubling, delivered in a sycophantic nature of pride and arrogance that never fails to translate to wilful ignorance and stupidity, to me. Whatever flaw theists have to not be able to reason the difference between the supernatural and reality, is not only annoying, but dangerous to humanity. It makes me wonder if our species has reached an evolutionary divergence...the non mutated theists without the ability to reason, and the mutated atheists, who's ability to reason truths, is more efficient. Although I do, because my innate morality guides me, it is hard to treat theists with even basic respect. The voice in my head, despite the pleasantries that may flow from my mouth, always say "what a dumb shit...I guess noah forgot the talking donkeys".
dog "... I find it hard to sympathize with any theists view, at all....it is the complete abject failure in reason that is most troubling, delivered in a sycophantic nature of pride and arrogance that never fails to translate to wilful ignorance and stupidity, to me."
@ Great Hope
Just remember the example I gave for myself:
The same would apply for anything in existence. If it exists, how would it make itself known otherwise?
As even I have said, I have never said there is no possibility of any deity existing. There has just been no evidence whatsoever of the existence of any deity. Since there has NEVER been any such evidence, it does make it very difficult to believe any such claims. Until there is evidence, and I mean OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, I have to go with the "I do not believe in the existence of any deity."
Additionally, there are also these questions.
Oh nice, I just took a look at those questions. Those are great. Give me a day or 2.
You are just attempting to reverse the burden of proof by basically stating that since there must be a purpose in life and that a creator is responsible for this purpose, then we must disprove that there is no purpose in life.
Great hope you must prove that existence has a purpose. (as defined by your theism)
I'm not sure that GH understands that there even is a burden of proof at all. He is simply proselytising by preaching at us. He is also ignoring everything we say, as he has by his own admission got the only 'answer' he is interested in.
Objectivity and facts are simply an inconvenient distraction to his attempts tp preach his beliefs to us. You have to love the condescending way he pretends to sympathise with our inability to believe in something he can't evidence at all, as if it's somehow an intellectual or emotional shortcoming to base belief on objective evidence and rational argument, rather than blind faith in archaic superstition.
@Sheldon (my fav)
I'm really sorry you feel that way. I've said many times that I'm a hillbilly roughneck who grew up flunking all sorts of subjects in school (except math) in Las Vegas (Sin City). I played sports a lot and sold drugs to players, drivers, and clubs. I partied with strippers, shot guns (never at people, never had to) hunting, I get the hook up from one of my old buddies from school who owns a gun shop\taxidermy. Used to raise chickens, turkeys, and rabbits. Four wheelers dune buggies at the dunes, and jetskis an wakeboarding at lake mead. Snowboarding at the cabin at Mt Charleston. All while partying like it was my last day on Earth with the World Renowned Strip as my playground. Living in a brand new quarter million dollar house. And because I had started working at 12 years old I had any and everything I could dream up. Didn't have a care in the world. Looking back in hindsight, I can see the enemy had me nice and comfortable, right where it wanted me. I used to swear, when I was partying, I could see demons laughing. But that's another discussion. That's all just the tip of the iceberg. Man, I got lost in thought reminiscing. I rarely go back to those "glory days" for they were completely empty. no matter what I thought was "living the dream" I always felt this cold tinge, that there is more. I just didn't know that it was separate from this world. Forgive me Sheldon for diving into this for you. But your last 30 comments to me have been exactly the same and I think you might be reading me wrong, like you read my texts like like someone you already have a predetermined judgement on. I'm not well educated and I lived most of my life denying God further than you, with not even caring about any facts at all. But, as an extremist with an eccentric mind. I've gone harder at this "God thing" than you could ever imagine. And, when I break down a few things. Even you have to admit that they, make even a microscopic amount of sense. Some of the stuff I share with the people I help wonder how someone like me can write like this. The ripples go further than just here. I carry great conversations with TinMan, algabe, logicftw, sapparro, new skeptic, skeptical Kevin, David killens, breezy, arakish, and even my beloved old man shats, just to name a few. So if you want to cling to your "checkmate" statements over and over, then there is nothing I can do for you. But, if you can use a tiny amount of empathy? You can place yourself in my position for a second and see that I'm giving this the best I've got. And go ahead Sheldon, ask me why I'm doing this??? Am I passing an offering basket around? Am I telling you what you need to wear on Sunday, so you can get into heaven? Am I doing anything other than asking questions and answering questions to me in the minutes I get to read all 20 responses to every 1 post of mine? So ask me, why do I do this? Well, I'll tell ya
Cause I love you *wink*wink*
"So if you want to cling to your "checkmate" statements over and over, then there is nothing I can do for you."
Again you're being extremely dishonest, as I am clinging to nothing, it is you who is blindly clinging to unevidenced superstition, because by your own admission you find it more comforting than reality. Whereas I seek only objective truth, and to that end I set the same objective standard for all beliefs and claims, if your deity is any more real than Thor or Ganesha then demonstrate some objective evidence to support this claim, otherwise the dishonesty of your proselytising is manifest.
If you want people to empathise with your beliefs, rather than objective critical thinking, then why on earth would you come to a forum filled with atheists? Except of course to preach and proselytise.
You just don't seem able to accept that others can live satisfying fulfilled lives without the crutch or comfort blanket of delusional superstitions. This is very arrogant, as I said it's sad you need this, but that is your choice, it is not and never will be mine. I will believe only what is properly and therefore objectively evidenced, what I want is entirely irrelevant to this.
"Am I doing anything other than asking questions and answering questions"
Yes, you are preaching at us, proselytising your beliefs, and arrogantly trying to claim our disbelief is some sort of emotional or rational flaw, and implying you know something we don't. Even dishonestly claiming over and over that our disbelief is somehow based on subjective bias, and your belief on esoteric knowledge, despite the fact you can offer no evidence to support this position. Here are some examples of such unevidenced,, and arrogant claims:
"I can see the enemy had me nice and comfortable, " (1)
" I always felt this cold tinge, that there is more. I just didn't know that it was separate from this world." (2)
"your last 30 comments to me have been exactly the same and I think you might be reading me wrong," (3)
" you read my texts like like someone you already have a predetermined judgement on." (4)
"I lived most of my life denying God further than you, with not even caring about any facts at all." (5)
***What facts? You have been asked repeatedly and admit you can produce none. You also have to love the way you imply here I am not interested in facts, deliberately?***
", as an extremist with an eccentric mind. I've gone harder at this "God thing" than you could ever imagine" (6)
"Even you have to admit that they, make even a microscopic amount of sense." (7)
***Nothing you have posted makes any sense, it reads exactly as it is, a man who became disillusioned with reality and found solace in the vapid superstition of religion, your call, but do stop pretending to me that it's somehow a flaw in my reasoning that stops me sharing your vapid beliefs.***
"So if you want to cling to your "checkmate" statements over and over, then there is nothing I can do for you." (8)
***Vapid superstition can do nothing for me, that you have got completely right. Nor is it clear why you think coming here to preach at me, I should afford you that privilege without voicing any criticisms, this is an atheist forum after all, you came here to preach at me, not the other way around.***
That's just in one post...