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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@Sheldon
Ok, thank you Sheldon. Circular it is then. We have yet to see how this all ends. That's why all of this is speculation and or Faith. That neverendlingly goes both ways. If it ends up being just a delusion filled with amazing results? Then no one will ever know. But, if it's real? Well then, you can fill in the blank here ________. Being from Vegas, I love looking at the odds, so step right up floks, place your bets and emotions and partial understandings ( in or out of order), on the biggest wheel of life. Just give it some time before the wheel stops. And then bam. Wow it's so exciting. Lol any logical response would be like, hmm bet on winning something (at the cost of nothing) or bet on winning nothing (at the cost of everything) hmm????? Vegas would shut that bet down so fast it would make Eric the sharting unicorns light speed rainbow lazers look slow. I'm sorry that you don't like "the way it is" with God and it won't give you what you want "hard concrete forceful evidence" before you find it in your heart that you don't want God anyways. But if and when you get it, I wonder, would you wonder what you missed or why you missed it, or just blame God for not doing what Sheldon wanted? The most reoccurring theme ever. If you want to know God? You work with what's been given. Which is a shit ton more than left brained logic. Do it, or don't. Lol, I just thought about what if you had all knowledge of God and your "special treatment" of having God over for dinner? Rendering your hearts choice to nonexistent. And God flashed all the answers to all of your questions before your eyes. Would you still want to choose nothing?
Only you are speculating, and only you are using and advocating faith. You have offered nothing else, and by your own admission can demonstrate no evidence or even cogent argument for your superstition. The rest of your vapid disjointed rant is a rambling version of the woeful Pascal's wager, sad that again you don't see you're holding an empty bag.
You seem to think you can ware us down by bombarding us with vapid rhetoric and unevidenced assertions. So just how you have the nerve to dishonestly accuse me of repetition is astonishing, as it is you keeps proselytising by repeating the same vapid religious verbiage in every post, and have sought atheists out to preach to, then have the nerve to whine when you get the same response.
Evidence your deity, or present a cogent argument to support your claims, or go find a pulpit, as your preaching is tedious. If you want a different response offer something, anything tangible, instead of the same tired old religious cliches.
Pascal's wager, ffs....dear oh dear...
@ Sheldon
May I ask what other theists have offered before, that might have stood out to you? Like I've said before I've never debated. Like how do other theists come with an approach? Should I say something like, let's talk about where thoughts come from, or what is intuition, or feelings are like assholes everyone's got em and they all stink; should we even care about emotions? Let's debate? I guess I'm asking for examples? I'm still "winging it" with extra sauce dipping my celery in blue cheese. I still don't know what I'm doing here. But I absolutely love the people here. And all of this has helped me a lot already.
No theists I've read or encountered have have ever had anything objective to offer in support of their beliefs, they espouse logically fallacious arguments, and either don't know or don't care what this means. They offer specious lectures about morality, but can't or won't explain how they know what is or is not moral themselves. They quote the bible at me, but then refuse to explain why they can ignore the bits they don't like or that contradict other parts they do like, often in the same thread they have claimed the bible offers objective morality. They venerate faith, yet decry as erroneous the conclusions others reach using faith, without ever offering any explanation of why their bias is justified.
Like you, they have decided to believe something without any real evidence, and are unable to explain why, beyond vapid saccharine declarations of how good it makes them feel.
Thoughts come from your brain, and intuition is mainly hokum. Theists love to attach meaning to things they can't explain, which is the very definition of an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.
GH "should we even care about emotions?"
What emotions, care how? What are you asking for goodness sake?
GH "Let's debate? I guess I'm asking for examples?"
Examples of what? You have come here to espouse your beliefs to atheists, offer something beyond bare assertions, or they will be rejected in the same fashion they are offered, as Hitchens's razor states.
@Sheldon
GH "Let's debate? I guess I'm asking for examples?"
Sheldon- "Examples of what?"
I was asking for examples of what other debates are like. The questions before that, were just oddball ideas on subjects? Can anyone send me links to some good debates, or how debates should look? So I can learn more about how I should proceed? I don't want to get Sheldon or Cog angry anymore. I want to make them smile.
Sheldon- "Like you, they have decided to believe something without any real evidence, and are unable to explain why, beyond vapid saccharine declarations of how good it makes them feel."
When I was concerned about "feeling good" and "believing lies" I did exactly everything I wanted to fulfill those. So much so that I was looking at the ultimate feel good... death. This God thing was never my idea and I didn't want it. It's most uncomfortable and the work I've had to put into it has been monotonous. Faith is very unsettling. It's been the hardest part of my life. God showed up in my last moments as death was licking my face. And because I called out and wanted to know. God gave me everything I was looking for. Making my experience undeniable. Now, the uncomfortable growth that has happened since then has been miraculous to say the least. None of it should have happened the ways that it has. So I have my faith bolstered almost daily by no effort of my own. Now, if I could intellectualize any of this? A left brained mentality only, would never be able to process it because it uses "all that we are". Now go ahead and say it's not possible, and the hundreds of people I've helped is because of a retarded delusion, which is "invalid evidence". That's perfectly fine Sheldon. I'm not asking anyone to believe me. I'm asking, if you wanted to know if The Creator is true? Your going to have to seek your own experience and do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes, for your hearts desire to shift, and your eyes to open. Give it a go, or don't, if you won't love God by faith? You will never love in it's presence. There is an order to it.
Love ya bud,
GH
You've got nothing, and sadly you're bombarding us with it relentlessly.
Can you demonstrate any evidence for any of those claims? You can't support a claim or belief with other unevidenced claims.
@David Killens
Hello David, I would like to thank you all again for helping me get a better perspective on athiesm. When it all started for me reading athiests comments on YouTube. I would simply just respond to the questions and I would eventually have quite a good outcome. Which my first thread was just a sloppy cut and paste to see what would become of it. Because, I wanted more (established?) Athiests views. I guess I wanted to see what someone who, put in work to disprove God, actually had? Or maybe what caused them to doubt in the first place? I don't know, I never came here to preach. I'm just answering with all that "we theists" have. Which makes perfect and complete sense to those who have placed the "key" to it all, in the center of understanding. That "key" being God is the reality. If that key is missing? Then it will always sounds like woo woo and "there is no evidence of that" lol. I really do love our conversations though and I've learned an awful lot. So seeing how it gets very circular. I will keep the preaching and experiences I've had, to an acute minimum and poke in here when I can, to answer anything I can. I feel that I need to say that I don't have all the answers, and I don't know for certain what the heck is going on in this crazy life. All I know is that something such as "Home" is something worth believing in. And from that belief, I have undeniable results, that have grown in the lives of countless others around me. I'm never asking you to believe me, for this message is not from me. I gain nothing except maybe a friend in Heaven. All I ever try to say, is that if something was blocking you from seeing the light of God? Would you be able to see it? It took me decades before I was able to honestly take a look at that. Because by default, if God does exist? That means everything, and it's going to take everything to "see" He's been waiting for us the whole time ; ) There is an order to it.
Either way, I really do Love you all. Thanks again for helping me.
GH
Do you not feel/find that the conversations themselves become circular once you invoke the God hypothesis?
I've always found the entire notion of a deity to be daft to the highest order.
We don't need a God to be nice, or to be wicked.
We don't need a God to understand this world or universe.... and so on...
Every philosophical question that is answered with the god hypothesis, simply begs more questions, appeals to ignorance, becomes circular and gets us nowhere.
I've always been labelled an atheist but in actuality it's far worse for me as I give the whole proposition no credence.
It is as preposterous a claim as saying fluorescent immortal geese are what actually orbit Saturn to form its rings.
@Randomhero1982
I don't know what fluorescent immortal geese can offer. But God says He's standing at the door knocking, to anyone who hears, and is willing to open the door. And with as many lives as that alone has changed. It's one of two things. Either it's the biggest delusion that has the best results of all time? Or (this is the biggest Or in history) Or it's actually true. Spaghetti monsters, fairies, 9 foot tall bunnies, fluorescent immortal geese, and Eric the sharting unicorn, are not The Creator and Giver of Life! Life is already vastly more than we can ever grasp or begin to understand. How could we ever think that there is not more? It would be the utterly ridiculous if this is all there is. What a waste. Imagine if you were born into a shitty placement of slavery, or in the Holocaust, or kid napped as a child and sold only to be killed in your teens because you were worthless. God never said it was going to be all fun down here. He said it will be worth it. We have yet to see how this ends up. So no matter what you choose to believe. We all live by faith in one or the other.
That's only what you've been taught though isn't it? No one has really had any way of objectively proving a deity exists.
At the very least, we know geese exist... so it's technically more plausible.
I don't know, we are understanding more and more every day.
And science, empirical understanding and being intellectually honest has unearthed so much amazing knowledge and enabled us as a species to improve.
With ease, accept it's a fact and try to enjoy our brief time on this planet.
It is far better then pretending an invisible pan dimensional cosmic wizard is running the show.
And it also completely proves the point I've made before that many believe simply because they fear the truth.
And that is fine!
Well there you have it, belief in a God is simply ones inability to accept the nature of human beings being cruel.
Hello Great Hope. I am here to respond to your queries. I will disregard the negative comments above but if they read my words they will read something they also have never heard about and perhaps put them on a different journey as well or at the least a more polite tone. None the less let me begin by asking What God do you believe in? Am I correct in assuming that you are referring to the biblical God? My premise will be based on that. Just like you I believed in that God for 33 years but all the belief in the world and all the faith would still leave me wondering with too many questions and too many contradictions. Have you ever considered the possibility that the God this world preaches is a false god? If there is a Great Spirit can it contact you? If I told you everything about my friend Sal, would you assume he is exactly as I say he is? My version of Sal is only from my own experience. Aren't you better off asking Sal to contact you than to search for Sal where many will claim to be Sal? Over 20 years ago I denounced everything this manipulative world taught me, I don't mean just on a spiritual level I mean everything. Yes you can say I deleted every belief from my brain and I called out saying that if there is a true Loving God it is obligated to make contact with me, otherwise how can it expect me to find truth in this lying manipulative world.You want proof? Call it out. Place the burden on it's shoulders and not yours. What happened to me will happen to you. I have made direct contact with a great Spirit of Love. It is unlike anything you heard or read about. Once you meet this Spirit of Love you will never have any more doubts of it's existence. Nothing from this world will shake your belief not even for an instant. There may be a few passages here and there that reference to this Spirit I speak of but even at that, reading it will get you nowhere. This God you are looking for is not in any book, or any form of media on this earth. Do not seek this God through the creations of mankind. Make direct contact. You will find your purpose.The answers to your questions will be answered in ways you have never imagined. You are greater than what this world wants you to believe.You will experience the powerful gifts you have been given inside you. We all have it but don't see them. You will be able to do things you can and cannot imagine. The voice is always speaking to us but this world blinds us from it. The atheists debate the God of this world and demand proof. It is up to them to seek proof. If they seek it, they will have it but not if their focus is on the God of this world. That is like saying show me the X on the map when it is actually a Y. I hope I have given you Inspiration. Have a great day !!
@ In Spirit
Jesus fucking x men....another one.
woooo, wOOOo, WOOOOOOOOoooooooo.
I give up...is there an actual evidence bit ever going to be posted on this thread?
Fucking Numpties.
I think you missed a little bit of woo... There it is :
Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolo!!!!
I feel your pain OM. Time to put on your chest waders, as the religious BS is about to get deeper.
@ Sheldon
For once you are very wrong Sheldon. Deep sea diving gear....that's what is needed reading these two wooo merchants....two tickets to numptieland, non return please. FMD.
Agree (0)
@In Spirit
Umm, I don't know what you're talking about or if you're even serious? Sounds like you're an athiest giving me the spaghetti monster story. In my life, God showed up and gave me life when I was at the end of mine. It wasn't my idea and I didn't even want it. I had no spiritual training or religion or knowledge. So whatever "it" was I connected to has changed everything about my life and a lot of others around me. I share my thoughts on the matters here, no matter how unappreciated, and I love the responses. Makes me think more which is my favorite thing to do.
@GH
Hey, if it makes you feel any better, my bet is that In Spirit is just another drive-by troll making an appearance to annoy anybody he/she/it can. Best thing to do is ignore him/her/it as much as possible.
GH "Umm, I don't know what you're talking about or if you're even serious? "
Hahhahahahhahahahah, uh, oh no, irony overload...
@Sheldon
I was wondering if anyone was going to notice that? Leave it to Sheldon *irony chuckles*. As I was writing that I was like hmm. Is this what I sound like to them? But then I was like, my delusion is way more clear, and far more wide spread lol. I'm glad your having a smile now Sheldon : )
Hello Great Hope.
I am not an atheist. Many here are putting labels on me not only on my beliefs but on me as a person. Someone they never met and only read this one post I made. I have no problems with them. Unfortunately for them, they do with me. I am not surprised that you don't know what I am talking about because I speak of something you have never heard about. I can assure you that I am being serious and enjoy conversing with real people who don't jump to judgmental conclusions to the character of others. I am neither atheist nor religious. I do not believe in any religion but I do believe that this God we are told to believe in is more than words in any book can possibly explain. I do not follow any type of bible because I don't need it. I have direct contact. The bible or any religious book describes a God I cannot accept.
I will just ask you to consider the possibility that the God you claim that helped you is not the one you have read about. Not the god that sends men to war, not the god that judges, not the god that is vengeful, not the god that saves anyone, not the one who claims to be God. If you can take me serious we can continue this discussion in spite of all the judgement coming my way. It's ok I can handle them. They are not aware that this great Spirit of Love allows me to see what is in them. For people who claim they don't believe in the God this world preaches it is amazing that they don't see how very similar they are to that written God. I am referring to those who judge us.
Great Hope what I want to share with you are the gifts of powers that this God who saved you is waiting for you to use. They are inside you. All wisdom is inside you. None of it can be obtained outside of you. In general ALL BELIEFS are created by mankind and shared through various means. Everything we came to believe comes from parents, authoritative figures, schools, media, culture, the country you are in, the age of the world you were born in, etc.. So can it be said that every belief we have is not ours but influenced beliefs? Is it possible that the religion you belief in is also an influenced belief? Yes even the atheists beliefs are not their own. All beliefs are influenced by creations of mankind.
As for those who accuse me of being a troll or judge me without knowing me, I have read your works and you have no idea that what you say about me says nothing about me but everything about yourselves.
It still amazes me that those who use the bible to defend their god and those who use the bible to defend their atheism know nothing about LOVE. I welcome all serious comments.
Great Hope, if you want to know who I am then you will know it through me and not through others. That is the same message I am telling you about the one you believe in. If truth is what you want seek out truth but not through any means that this world created.
Test out my hypotheses yourself. It's a scary proposition to let go of every belief, but one that will clear up the muddy waters and give you more than anything this world has to offer.
* adopts deep cinematic voice" The gnosis is strong in this one.........
In Spirit: "I have made direct contact with a great Spirit of Love. It is unlike anything you heard or read about. Once you meet this Spirit of Love you will never have any more doubts of it's existence. Nothing from this world will shake your belief not even for an instant."
OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat.
Woo Woo assertion. The burden is now yours to prove it.
rmfr
Arakish
I have given you the method in which to test out my hypotheses. If proof is what you seek, you can validate or invalidate it by carrying out your own experiment using my hypotheses. Isn't that the way the scientific world operates?
I know you will not do it. The mere suggestion of removing every belief you have is a proposition that frightens too many people. Removing them reveals your true self and the wisdom within, instead of the man made version of you. That is the first step of the hypotheses.
Furthermore, every atheist believes in some things that can't be proven or were proven and then shown to be false. Science itself never was and still is not a pure science. Some of their own stated facts have been proven false throughout the ages including ours. It aims for facts but gets it wrong sometimes.
As stated:
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat.
The burden of the proof lies upon him who affirms, not him who denies.
You have made a positive assertion. It is now incumbent upon YOU to provide evidence for that assertion. It is NOT incumbent upon others to test your hypothesis, it is incumbent upon others to test the EVIDENCE you present, for that hypothesis, to see if it passes muster.
If you're going to make claims, be prepared to present evidence of those claims. If you're not prepared to present evidence then your claims are baseless and without substance.
Until you have evidence, stop making assertions. It's pretty simple.
Terraphon
It is you that seeks proof. Seek it.
Not even a scientist can respond to you without saying "I have made my experiment and this is the method I used and this is the result I concluded. If you want proof test out the experiment yourself" Asking for proof from a scientist would not satisfy any scientific group unless another objective scientific group tests out the experiment themselves which can then validate or invalidate the original claim.
What you ask for is an attempt to deny my findings without taking it to task yourself. Not very scientific on your behalf to say the least.
@In Spirit
You haven't provided any evidence or methodology.
Go away, troll.
@ In Spirit
Fine. Come to my lab so I can poke and prod you through 1,000,001 tests to see if there is any veracity in your preposterous, incredulous, ridiculous, bizarre, absurd, fantastic, crazy, foolish, impossible, laughable, irrational, nonsensical, outrageous, senseless, ludicrous, stupid, unbelievable, unreasonable, unthinkable, shocking, insane, asinine, exorbitant, silly, far-out, harebrained, wacky, wild assertion.
Are you willing to submit yourself to the million and one experiments I want to do? As you said, "If proof is what you seek, you can validate or invalidate it by carrying out your own experiment using my hypotheses. Isn't that the way the scientific world operates? I know you will not do it." C'mon pretty boy. Step up to the plate. Take two months off from work and come to my labs. I'll give you the Scientific Method.
rmfr
@ In Spirit
Damn sorry. I forgot to tell you that best any theist has done with my lab tests is 1024. Still cannot figure out why. I've had eight get that far, but then they just usually turn into a pillar of salt. Can't figure it out.
rmfr
Arakish
Pillar of salt? Are you pulling words out of a book I don't believe in? And I thought you were the atheist.
Arakish
Intrigue me further if you so dare. Explain the serious experiments you wish to attempt. Or am I just feeling hot air blowing my way?
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