Just a Christian with some honest questions

136 posts / 0 new
Last post
Jeff Vella Leone's picture
zfor is an other hypocrite

zfor is an other hypocrite and liar it seems just like most theists.

he won't answer or read you reply Travis

maryam's picture
Yes, the Quran and the Bible

Yes, the Quran and the Bible are almost similar..The same Belief, Abrahamic Religion...but bible is corrupted by human beings..

2 Centuries Ago, A Group Of Christian Scholars, They Established An Institute For Bibical Research And What They Wanted To Do Is A Mass All The Greek Manuscripts Of The Bible, Because The Original Aramiac Was Extinct And This Book Took Them Decades, They Massed 1000s Of Manuscripts Of The Bible In Greek And Then They Began To Cross Reference Them, And They Found That There Were Over 200,000+ Discrepancies, 8% Of A Very Serious Nature, 200,000..So What They Decided Was To Establish Another Institute, The Institute For Quranic Research, And By 1933, They Had Gathered 43,Ooo Manuscripts Of Qurans, Written Qurans And Shortly After The 2nd World War, The Report Came Out And The Report Mentions That Besides A Few Mistakes By Calligraphy, They Found Not One Discrepancy..!!!
43,000 Manuscripts!!!! And Why Should There Be Discrepancies? This Is A Book Regarding Which Allah Says:
"We Have Revealed It And We Will Look After It".

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
you have to give credit, to

you have to give credit, to Christianity though

they were the fist attempt at joining up all the religions in just 1 religion.
And also it wasn't the first original purpose to do so.

No wonder there were a lot of discrepancies.

The Quran on the other hand was invented for that purpose and was an update on Christianity.

The most funny part about the Quran is that it is worse then the bible in its teachings because it reflects the bestiality of the people who invented it at the time.

However the Quran does have contradictions :), here are 10 whole minutes of contradictions :

maryam's picture
First of all the link

First of all the link provided is not at all authenticated. Look how the ignorant people are trying to prove Quran worse or false. If you people are honest then why doesn’t u give the clear verses of Quran? All the verses in that link are not complete.
The biggest proof of Quran is the world of almighty is that For 1, 400 Years, Not A Word, Not A Letter, Not A Dot Has Changed In The Book Of Allah
1,400 Years!!! ..In The Period Of 14,00 Years Rivers Change Direction, Civilization Fall And Other Rise, Languages Become Extinct, And Others Evolve But The Book Of Allah Is Exactly The Way It Was Revealed 1,400 Years Ago

nvardan's picture
A lot of books haven't

A lot of books haven't changed since the time of their writings. That doesn't make them any more right.

Lmale's picture
Id advise talking to gregpek

Id advise talking to gregpek about the Quran his hatred of islam has led him to study it.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
I am not that interested in

I am not that interested in Islam but i bet Greg would like that link :P

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
Why in the world do mooslims

Why in the world do mooslims believe the amount of contradictions in a book are somehow correlated to its authenticity? I read Harry Potter and counted zero contradictions, does that mean there are magic users living in a magically hidden world behind our back? Doubtful, I think the real issue here is that the term Magic is a sureal claim in a fictitious sense, while a Miracle is a similiar claim that is expected to be accepted as truth. And due to years of radicalism and being surrounded by "yes" men, they are now completely incapable of seperataing reality from fiction.

Lmale's picture
Does not take much to prevent

Does not take much to prevent people telling the differences between fact and fiction studies have been done with children with just a few years exposure to religion and with children as similar as possible but without exposure to religion. Surprisingly (not) the children exposed to religion had more difficilulty telling fact from fantasy.
If theists cant accept they are brainwashing point out this thought experiment: you try telling a 10 yr old theres no santa, not your own kid ofc they are programmed to believe every single word a parents says at that age. Make sure no one will confirm the no santa, odds are the child will refuse to accept it.
It often takes ridicule and talks with parents to remove the lie and boy will they hate you for it.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
They brainwashed and see a

They brainwashed and see a different world that we see travis.

it is like teaching a kid how to run when the kid was told all his life to move his legs only to wash them.
He won't understand what the term run means. After his mom told him that you want to hurt him, he would just think that you want to break his legs to hurt him.

His world does not involve ever walking or running.

Theist are just like this, they will never understand the true freedom unless they are rebellious(demons) in nature.
Christians call those with a rebellious spirit demons on purpose.

maryam's picture

All the contradictions are based on half of the verses of Quran

Lmale's picture
The quran itself is a

The quran itself is a contradiction muslims insist it has never changed but this has been shown to be false.

maryam's picture
We are not Brainwashed...

We are not Brainwashed....Infact you are brainwashed..See here...I request of all you to go through tis link.. http://seemyparadigm.webs.com/

Lmale's picture
I truly believe if we somehow

I truly believe if we somehow invented time travel and were able to go back and get proof that these miracles never happened hell if we were able to get proof of meetings where they were being made up hell if we were able to go back the the creation of the solar system and the universe with no god. Still these people would continue believing in their god. Sure some would wake up but but far to many would just claim the evidence was manufactured.

Lmale's picture
I truly believe if we somehow

I truly believe if we somehow invented time travel and were able to go back and get proof that these miracles never happened hell if we were able to get proof of meetings where they were being made up hell if we were able to go back the the creation of the solar system and the universe with no god. Still these people would continue believing in their god. Sure some would wake up but but far to many would just claim the evidence was manufactured.

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
Maryam, I highly doubt you

Maryam, I highly doubt you are "brainwashed", however I don't think you understand how truly absurd your belief system is.

First of all, part of the Muslim belief system is accepting the Quran in itself as a miracle. I'm semi aware of this belief that muhammed was supposedly illiterate, and therefore incapable of producing the Quran himself. The existence of the Quran is supposedly a Divine gift from God, with it's perfection proof of its Divine origin.

However, here's reality check. We know that books are written by men. This is an extremely poor test because it is so admissable in itself. But more so, we know historically that the Quran much like the Bible went through a rigorous canonization process in which the early church leaders compiled, organised, and corrected the text in the years between 653ce to 656ce under Uthman Ibn Affan. Afterwords, he ordered all earlier existing personal Quran to be destroyed.

There you have it. In one of the most well known and documented cases, Uthman Ibn Affan spell checked the Quran to ensure grammatical accuracy, and ordered every Quran written during the time Muhammed actually lived, to be destroyed. Now you know why there are no texts existing to contradict the Quran.

The early Quranic Caliphates intentionally destroyed them. This actually makes the whole "The Quran is a perfect creation from god!" Story fall flat on its face as the real story should be "Caliphates correct Muhammed's text, anything contradicting new Quran is not correct and destroyed".

maryam's picture
First of all I am not at all

First of all I am not at all brainwashed. There was no written Quran at the time of prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him
Quran No Doubt About It!

So what is this evidence that Islam claims to present that is so convincing? The first issue is authenticity. Purity of text is quite vital to the whole spirit of "fund". This is because once a text has shown to have been corrupted and altered in order to make it comply with doctrinal or political expediencies, and if there is no reliable means to distinguish the corrupt from the pure, then there is not one passage of that text that cannot be called into question. This is not so easy with a pure and preserved text. This is well understood by the Christian fundamentalists.
If it is not the "Word of God", then what real value does it posses as guidance, except as a collection of wisdom? Few serious scholars, even from Islam's opponents, have tried to dispute the Quran's historical authenticity. Indeed it would be a pointless exercise, since anyone who cares to take a trip to Tashkent (in the former Soviet Union) will find there a complete copy of the Quran written by one of the Prophet's scribes, Zayed ibn Thabit, upon the order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr within two years of the Prophet's death. The manuscript in Tashkent is a copy of that first manuscript, also written by the hand of the same Zayed, but some twelve years later under the order of 'Uthman bin Affan, the third Caliph, with the consensus of over fifty companions of the Prophet who also had written portions of the Quran, and also others who had memorized it in toto. This "Uthmanic" Quran, as it later came to known, was accepted without exception by the surviving companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being one and the same that was revealed by Allah to his Final Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him). One can take any copy of any Quran, from any mosque anywhere in the word and compare it with the mushaf of Zayed, and find it exactly the same - word for word. It is even recited in the same accent in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) recited it. Furthermore Arabic, the language of the Quran, is a living language, and the Book has always been in the hands of the people - not merely the domain of a few priests.

Thus anyone reading the Quran can be certain beyond reasonable doubt that they are reading the same words revealed to Muhammad (peace be upon him) over one thousand four hundred years ago.

"Verily! It is We Who have sent down the Quran and surely, We will guard it".
[Noble Quran 15:9]

Vulmec's picture
The problem here is that to

The problem here is that to verify something one needs to seek an outside source to check the original against. This is done in the rational world by re-testing hypothesis thru repeated objective testing. Does X move the needle? Can we detect Y? There is no way to test your hypothesis that the Quran is correct. Even if, and this is a HUGE if, the Quran was completely accurate from a historical standpoint, that would not validate any of its assertions of a god, afterlife, miracles, etc. And I am defiantly not just going to take your word for it. Pluto was mentioned before, we can objectively test to see if its there, and yep its there. Whether its a planet or not is, depending on who you ask, up for debate. One side cites facts and presents a new categorization system for extraterrestrial bodies, while the other just screams that its always been a planet and should remain one. Guess which side made it into the books? Similarly we know that the Quran exists, but up for debate is its validity as a text to moraly or spiritually guide people. It is one of many groups all shouting into the void citing, length of belief, and number of followers, and how well written their texts are. None of it matters. The only thing that matters is what you can objectively prove, and you can prove nothing. Please prove me wrong, prove you are right and I, and I'm betting many other atheists, will gladly join you in prayer to Allah tomorrow. Otherwise quit wasting our time.

Vulmec's picture


maryam's picture

Yes i can prove u wrong and prove me right. It is an accepted fact that we are living in an expanding universe, several changes will take place but this does not mean that you can compare creation with the Creator.
As for Quran Any book, which claims to be from God Almighty, has to be perfect in all respects. Some of the criteria are:
There should be no contradictions whatsoever, the message should be consistent in whatever it states, whether it is of a scientific nature, or otherwise, and should be able to be proved to be true at ALL TIMES, The Laws governing society should be the best for the people at all times and under all conditions, and so forth.
The Qur’an contains all of the above and more.
By reading the Qur’an can one understand the uniqueness and perfectness of the Qur’an.
The Qur’an has approximately six thousand verses. Of the six thousand verses there are approx 1,000 verses pertaining to science. The majority of these verses pertaining to science were largely UNDISCOVERED until the 1960’s to 1990’s. In other words most of them were conclusively proven by scientists only recently when science advanced to the extent it has.

maryam's picture
Go through this link and look

Go through this link and look how Atheist are brainwashed..http://seemyparadigm.webs.com/

CyberLN's picture
Maryam, even if I were to

Maryam, even if I were to capitulate that your book has not changed, it does not prove that it was the word of your gawd. It does not remove the words in it suggesting war, death, and torture of non-Muslims. It does not confirm that this Mohammed didn't make it up or wasn't simply hallucinating. It does nothing.

maryam's picture
Cyber LM

Cyber LM
The Quran is not changed and it cannot be changed because Allah, the Almighty has promised and God does not fail in his promise. It never suggested war, death and torture. Infact it is the message of peace. In order to prove Quran wrong many people are Quoting half verses of Quran. Give me a compete verse of Quran which suggest the war, death and torture.
Obviously people are flawed and prone to mistakes. That doesn't mean their religion is bad though. In fact due to the lack of logical flaws in Islam, these are the most common arguments against it. "Some Muslims do this, some do that, some "Islamic" countries have these rules..."

CyberLN's picture
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 484: - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

maryam's picture
Cyber LN

Cyber LN
Surah Al-Baqarah (2: 190-193)
“Fight for the cause of God those who fight against you, but do not commit aggression. God does not love aggressors. Kill them wherever you may find them, and drive them away from wherever they drove you away; for oppression is even worse than killing. However, do not fight them near the Sacred Mosque unless they fight you first there. Should they fight you, then kill them. Thus shall the unbelievers be rewarded. But, if they desist, know that God is Much Forgiving, Merciful. Fight them until there is no more oppression and submission is made to God. If they desist, let there be no hostility except against the wrongdoers.” [the Cow — “Al-Baqarah” 2: 190- 193]
As You See, The Verse Is Concerned Only With Those Who Are Aggressors, Fighting Muslims Because They Believe In Islam, And Driving Them Away From Their Homes, Or Fighting Us Near The Sacred Mosque In Makkah. It Is Such People That We May Kill Wherever We Find Them. The Verse Is Not Concerned With All Unbelievers, And Certainly Not With Those Who Are Willing To Live With Us In Peace. IT IS AS GOD SAYS: “NO HOSTILITY EXCEPT AGAINST THE WRONGDOERS.”
“As for such of the unbelievers who do not fight against you on account of your faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave toward them with full equity. Indeed God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship toward such as fight against you because of your faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid others in driving you forth. Those who turn toward them in friendship are truly wrongdoers.” [She That Is To Be Examined — “Al-Mumtahenah” 60: 8-9]
“There is no compulsion in matters of faith.” [the Cow — “Al-Baqarah” 2: 256]
That does not mean that it should be forced on people to accept it. Islam believes that faith cannot be accepted by force. Hence, it declares unequivocally:
What this means is that Muslims should have the freedom to implement God’s law in their land, and others should be free to accept the faith of Islam if they so wish. Whenever the struggle of Muslims, armed or unarmed, is directed towards these goals, that struggle is Jihad.

maryam's picture
The verses which you quoted

The verses which you quoted better if u read an authentic commentary..!!!
The Qur’an certainly speaks about war and jihad. But when we take all statements in the Qur’an about war, and also take into consideration the circumstances prevailing at the time of the revelation of each, and relate this to the final statements, we are bound to have a firm conviction that war in Islam is a defensive one. But we have to add here that its being defensive does not mean that Muslims must wait until they are attacked before taking to arms. It means that they may take measures to remove the threat of aggression.

Summary (9:5) Treaties with those pagans who have treacherously broken their terms are denounced, but 4 months time is given for adjustments or repentance or to prepare for the just punishment of their treachery.

It was necessary to put down all kinds of unseemly conduct in the prophet’s city. And here warning in the plainest terms. And the warning had its effect. The HYPOCRITES were men who pretended to be in Islam but whose manners and morals were anti-islamic. Those “with diseases hearts” may have been the ones that molested innocent women. “Those who stirred up sedition” put false rumours in circulation to excite crowd.

CyberLN's picture
Does your reply address the

Does your reply address the specific quotes I sited? Or is it simply a center with contradictory quotes?

maryam's picture
Cyber LN you can read it..

Cyber LN
you can read it..

Mythlover's picture
Hi Zfoor! You seem like quite

Hi Zfoor! You seem like quite an intelligent person, and I applaud you for testing your faith because whether it brings you stronger faith or you realize that your religion is false, this search will benefit your life. Having said that, here are some links that will help answer some of your other questions in this post (I won't pretend to have gone through the whole thread, but you asked about where our morality comes from and this helps). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLuRfUU4sYM. Keep in mind that Christians are generally Christians because they have been told that is the right way, even though it more than likely is not (yes, I will not deny the chance that it is, but this is extremely doubtful. However, nobody can stop you from hanging onto that itty bitty chance.). All religions are this way. If you look at cult psychology, this kind of thing applies to all religions, not just the tiny, widely unaccepted ones. Religion satisfies a basic human need for structure, for feeling as though there is a purpose. But this comes from evolution, NOT a creator. Because certain traits (such as morality, religion) were beneficial to our overall survival, those who had these continued to survive. Someone who thinks life has a higher purpose is more likely to continue to live than someone who doesn't give a crap. Communities that helped one another were more likely to thrive than one constantly steeped in fighting. Thus morality developed.

Mythlover's picture
Sorry, I forgot to include

Sorry, I forgot to include this in my previous post, here is another link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXsTpWT2oe8. I wish you luck, it would be great to welcome you into this way of thinking!


Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.