Just a Christian with some honest questions

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maryam's picture
The Best explanation for this

The Best explanation for this verse has explained by Dr. Zakir Naik

The Qur’aan and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible? http://sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf

watchman's picture
"The Best explanation for

"The Best explanation for this verse has explained by Dr. Zakir Naik

The Qur’aan and Modern Science: Compatible or Incompatible? http://sunnahonline.com/ilm/quran/qms.pdf"

Mariam ....

Really ? ..... this is the best explanation ...??? honestly ????

This guy isn't even a scientist ... he was a doctor.

And there is nothing in his piece that isn't in your post .... ( you copied and pasted didn't you ? .. you little tinker )

I have to say I did find some of his views very entertaining though.....
its worth a read just for the laughs ....
this guy knows nothing of the scientific method ....
there is stuff in there about birds only being able to fly because Allah holds them up .... and ants meeting for chats and holding markets...

Sorry Mariam ... Im not taking the "mick" ...but really??

maryam's picture
Yes, it is the best

Yes, it is the best explanation.

Yeah i copied and pasted ...

Instead of pasting URL i pasted the whole subject. but i neve intended of pasting it so that people may understand as if this was my own work. that was my favrte article so i thought of sharing here. that's it

Chris T.'s picture
I couldn't help it, I had to

I couldn't help it, I had to look up the "ants" verse. Yup, they can apparently also speak full sentences too. Who would have thunk it?

Vincent Paul Tran1's picture
........ trying to defend two

........ trying to defend two nonmutally exclusive positions isn't discussion OR discoure........ it's talking past one another

Cheers :)

Rasfisher's picture
Hi all.

Hi all.

Just found this place and looking forward to joining in where I can. As a Christian I trust the Bible and accept its eternal truths, however I see a need for the Bible to be understood comprehensively which can only come from a number of disciplines. For example, I believe in the role of the 'preacher,' but see this as distinct from the role of the scholar and teacher. A preacher can apply basic scriptural principles into a practical lifestyle. The preacher is reliant on the translation work of scholars, and also on the knowledge of historians.

The Bible also has a context. The context of the New Testament period is different to that of the Mosaic period. Unless we grasp each Biblical period in its original context then we are always in danger of limiting the Bible.

SeanBreen's picture
What "eternal truths"? There

@ B A Pilgrim,

What "eternal truths"? There is barely a claim in the bible that can be substantiated or logically reasoned.

1. The Earth is not flat
2. The Earth is not 6,000 - 10,000 years old
3. The Earth was not formed in 6 24 hour periods
4. The Exodus has no archeological or historical evidence outside the bible
5. The bible condones genocide
6. Deontological codes are inherently imperfect and unjust systems of ethics
7. Many prophecies of the bible failed to come to fruition
8. The bible contradicts itself on certain doctrines on numerous occasions
9. The miracles in the bible are not possible
10. Christian religions have historically been extremely violent and sects of particular Christians still kill one another as they have done for centuries. This is counter to the instructions contained within the Pentateuch
11. There is no consensus on "Christian truth", as evidenced by the huge number of denominations who assert their interpretations as an exclusivist truth
12. A God who is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent by definition foresaw and willingly chose any and all paradigms which exist, meaning that prohibitions against intrinstic natural phenomena like homosexuality or sexual promiscuity are diametrically oppositional to the paradigms which God himself chose. God is a self-contradictory tyrant in that regard.
13. If God is omnipotent yet suffering exists, God is not omnibenevolent. If God is omnibenevolent yet suffering exists, God is not omnipotent. If God is not omnibenevolent then he is malevolent (why worship him?) and if God is not omnipotent, then he is in some or many ways impotent (again, why worship him?)

Those are just the general problems that come to mind straight away, but there are a vast, vast number of more particular issues with the bible and with the Christian bracket of religions in general. Whether you interpret it this way or that does not detract from the fact that there is absolutely no logical reason to trust anything the bible says.

ThePragmatic's picture
@B A Pilgrim

@B A Pilgrim

For clarification, as a Christian:
- Do you you adhere to any particular denomination?
- Are you a creationist, or do you accept scientific evidence of the age of the Earth and the universe?

My questions to you would be:

- What makes the Bible true and not the Talmud or the Quran? Or the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, the Guru Granth Sahib, the Shruti, the Tripiṭaka, the Bhagavad Gita, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, Tibetan Book of the Dead or the Zoroastrian Texts?

- What makes Christianity true and not Baha'i, Buddhism, Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, Wicca, Zoroastrianism, Druidism, Ancient Egyptian religion, Ancient Roman religion, Ancient Greek religion, or even Scientology?


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CyberLN's picture
" Unless we grasp each

" Unless we grasp each Biblical period in its original context then we are always in danger of limiting the Bible."

Seams to me that your bible is self-limiting, it doesn't need our help.

jamalt's picture
First of All the Prophet

First of All the Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was a prophet he never claimed to be God or God's son. He was a prophet Pbuh he was truthful and honest of all in his time. He never read the bible before as he coudnt read or it. He memorized the Quran with the help of Angel Gabriel. The only logical reason behind Quran is that its a Word of God. It gets younger with time. Quran was revealed for all mankind. It will be there till the end of time and even in hereafter. People who memorized it will recite it and be awarded greatly. Quran is the only miracle that still exists and will exist forever. In Sha Allah.

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright daylight, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food likewise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists), created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while.

Al-Harith bin Hisham asked Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed to you?" Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "Sometimes it is (revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state passes off after I have grasped what is inspired. Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says." 'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet (ﷺ) being inspired divinely on a very cold day and noticed the sweat dropping from his forehead (as the Inspiration was over).

Ibn 'Abbas in the explanation of the statement of Allah "Move not your tongue concerning (the Quran) to make haste therewith." (75.16) said "Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to bear the revelation with great trouble and used to move his lips (quickly) with the Inspiration." Ibn 'Abbas moved his lips saying, "I am moving my lips in front of you as Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to move his." Said moved his lips saying: "I am moving my lips, as I saw Ibn 'Abbas moving his." Ibn 'Abbas added, "So Allah revealed 'Move not your tongue concerning (the Qur'an) to make haste therewith. It is for Us to collect it and to give you (O Muhammad) the ability to recite it (the Quran)' (75.16-17) which means that Allah will make him (the Prophet) remember the portion of the Qur'an which was revealed at that time by heart and recite it. The statement of Allah: 'And when we have recited it to you (O Muhammad through Gabriel) then you follow its (Quran) recital' (75.18) means 'listen to it and be silent.' Then it is for Us (Allah) to make it clear to you' (75.19) means 'Then it is (for Allah) to make you recite it (and its meaning will be clear by itself through your tongue). Afterwards, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) used to listen to Gabriel whenever he came and after his departure he used to recite it as Gabriel had recited it."

Hypothermia's picture
Jeff V. Leone made a good

Jeff V. Leone made a good point when he said, "The right question is; What makes it truth from other books like lord of the rings, etc..." Good question. Tolkien wrote about it in his Tolkien Reader. It is the "Truths" of fiction and non fiction. In the case of fantasy fiction creating "Truth" involves suspension of disbelief. A good fiction author hooks readers--who normally don't believe in elves, hobbits, or dragons in real life--into buying into them for the sake of entertainment. The "Truth" is that readers want to suspend their disbelief because they get something out of the book that overrides their reason. That something is entertainment and perhaps insight into the human condition. This suspension of disbelief is done knowingly by the reader and doesn't mean the reader actually generates a belief in fantasy in their everyday life. Non fiction, on the other hand, is read to feed the intellect and build knowledge. Unlike fiction, non fiction is held up to a factual standard that continually compares it to new discoveries, research, and peer reviews. Non fiction books that have been refuted by facts that have been tested through the scientific method or a preponderance of reliable evidence are either rewritten or laid aside. The trouble with most scriptures is that they demand readers suspend their disbelief while insisting the unchanging text of their books is non fiction. The reason I reject the Bible as the "Truth" is not because it is bad fiction, it's wonderful fiction, but rather because it doesn't qualify as non fiction. It's proponents are constantly having to reinterpret its static text to fit its failings as a non fiction work.


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Goosegogs's picture
I have had no religious

I have had no religious education. But I did attempt to read the bible (but got lost in all the begetting).

I was listening to a radio adaptation of John Steinbeck's East of Eden. I remember a "lost in translation" moment. "may" and "can" have different meanings.

Elsewhere, I came across the word "Musar" and the wikipedia page has this as " moral conduct, instruction or discipline." I thought of "instruction" to be different than "discipline"

As for truth... angle can be key - a glass I look at from the top is 2-dimensionally a circle, but from the side, it is a rectangle. The "what is it" reminds me of the ink blot test.

xenoview's picture
Necromancy at work!

Necromancy at work!

David Markwort's picture
The Bible was written by men

The Bible was written by men for men. It’s a work of early pornography and science fiction all rolled into one. The Bible is nothing new, the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Egyptians all has their own versions, even the Great Flood was taken from older writings. The Bible is flawed from Genesis onwards.

Glacier's picture
Except for Ecclesiastes. That

Except for Ecclesiastes. That's some beautiful poetry shit there.



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