A little help

18 posts / 0 new
Last post
Danny Craft's picture
A little help

Ello all :)
.. So I have found myself chatting about religion (as we do!) with a friend who is certain that I am not Atheist, I am agnostic.. I'm confused..
It came about after some general conversation about the madness (no better word for it) of religion which led to a point where I said something like this: "well look at what we know so far, it is pretty obvious that we are a very small part of something much bigger. There is some form of energy, which our conscious and unconscious decisions directly affect in one way or another, but the one certainty is that we don't know what this is" .. To which he replied: "So you're not Atheist, you're agnostic" .. We debated back n forth throwing definitions around and his take on Atheism is that Atheists believe in nothing, they are certain that when we die it's the end and that's that. But I am not certain of this, I know that I don't know. Does this make me agnostic? I basically know it doesn't, but this guy is one of the most intelligent people I know, so it made me question myself. Anybody had similar experiences?

To clarify; Atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.. This doesn't mean I am certain that nothing happens when we die. I accept this as a high possibility, as I'm sure any logical thinker does, but there's literally no way to be certain. If this makes me agnostic, please let me know :)

Subscription Note: 

Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.

Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
To clarify; Atheism is the

To clarify; Atheism is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Yea you are right to question those things.
Gnostic and agnostic is an appeal to knowledge, while a belief is different.
This site got only the Deist/Atheist wrong, the rest explains it perfectly.

An Atheist is:
The lack of belief in a theistic god.

ADeist is:
"is the disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

So Gnostic Adeist is the person that knows that any form of god does not exist.

Gnostic or Agnostic can be complementary with; theist, deist, atheist, antitheist and Adeist

EG: I am:
Gnostic Anti theist, Agnostic Atheist, Agnostic Deist, + some more :)

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
forgot the quotes in the

forgot the quotes in the first line :( sry

Yea your friend is wrong, tell him I said so :P

You are an atheist an agnostic atheist(at least from what i know about you)

If you believe in some form of god, or connection but do not know for sure, then you are also an Agnostic Deist.

A theistic god is the claim that this form of prime mover or connection has a personality.
If you do not believe that but you are not sure 100% that it does not exist then you are an Agnostic Atheist.

Danny Craft's picture
Wooow haha! Well that's

Wooow haha! Well that's scrambled my brain nicely!
.. Think I'll just keep calling myself an Atheist to keep things simple!

Danny Craft's picture

.. But no I don't believe in a God, as soon as the thought enters my mind the whole "so what created the God" debate comes to mind. It just doesn't make sense to me that all this would be created by something, what would be the point?
.. But yea fare enough, an agnostic atheist I am, because I know there's no way we could ever be certain.. Still an Atheist nonetheless ;)

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Yes, but the deist version of

Yes, but the deist version of god is very loose, it could even refer to consciousness so one's position here is quite unsure.

If you do not think that such a thing exists but not 100% sure then you would also be an Agnostic Adeist.

Your friend was confusing you with an Agnostic Adiest and he was mixing up the 2 as being exclusive things.

So you are both an Agnostic Atheist and an Agnostic Adeist. (most atheists are)

Johnny Moronic's picture
Step 1: List any god or gods

Step 1: List any god or gods that you believe in.
Step 2: Anything on your list?
If yes, then you're a theist.
If no, then you're an atheist. (Welcome aboard.)
No other descriptors or categories really matter.
The default is atheist until and unless you add something to your list.
In order to be anything other than an atheist, you have to list belief in at least one.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
ATheist refers only to the

ATheist refers only to the theistic type of god = a subset of all the possible types of gods.

So NO, Atheist is not the non belief in gods but just the non belief in a theistic god.

man the name shouts it in your face.

The A means NOT , so Not a theist is the derivation.

CyberLN's picture
Danny, call yourself whatever

Danny, call yourself whatever you like. Someone else's need to compartmentalize who you are does not actually define who you are.

Spewer's picture
There is no universally

There is no universally-agreed upon definition, but the way I contrast the two is this:
* Atheism is a statement about what you believe.
* Agnosticism is a statement about what you know.
I am both: Atheist because I am free from belief in any deities presented to me to date, and agnostic because I am incapable of knowing of their existence or non-existence with certainty.

The only kink is that some would argue (reasonably, IMO) that there is no actual knowledge, only degrees of confidence in belief. If that's the case, then everybody is agnostic regardless of their claims otherwise, rendering the label obsolete.

aestival's picture
When people start arguing

When people start arguing labels, I find "non-religious" stops them cold. No point splitting hairs or developing sects when the divisions are among non-religious beliefs about religion.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Yes, the argument over

Yes, the argument over exactly what an atheist is, is kind of silly. It wouldn't even matter except for some religious nuts like to try to define it so narrowly to exclude anyone.

Danny Craft's picture
Thanks for the responses

Thanks for the responses people :)
.. it is often frustrating how the discussion/debate ends up swaying from it's original point and into a battle of definitions!

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
welcome, but you asked for

welcome, but you asked for the correct definitions and we gave it to you:
"please let me know :)"

I'am sorry if that was frustrating but the truth usually is.

Danny Craft's picture
No no I wasn't saying THAT

No no I wasn't saying THAT was frustrating. And I thanked all for their input! .. This thread is for that topic! I meant when debating other things with people it often comes back round to the old definitions debate!

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Yea you are right.

Yea you are right.
Theists push us to that place always with their very stupid attacks to run away from the real argument.

Sorry for misunderstanding.

It always boil down to defending our own position first, since that is their only way to support theirs.

Again, like politics, discredit the enemy so your position looks better.

mysticrose's picture
Very informative! I'm quite

Very informative! I'm quite confused before on these variation until I got to be involved with people who are under these beliefs.

Michael Bendure's picture
Hey all, I'm new here myself.

Hey all, I'm new here myself. I too have read all the religious texts and ancient mythology I could get my hands on back in Junior High and High School. I’ve attended a couple different churches just to get a feel for what goes on. While I never considered myself religious, I did approach it with an open mind.

After studying all this and seeing modern religious practices, I was astounded that modern mankind still believes so strongly in all this stuff. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or even moderate intelligence to see the similarities in all the religious texts and even ancient mythology. Taken in context with the times, the ignorance of man back then and considering how these stories were handed down for centuries before they were even written, then considering the number of translations after that. It does make sense for people back then to believe that stuff, but now in this day and age? It simply doesn’t make any sense to me how rational, intelligent, modern mankind could be persuaded that any of this is legitimate.
While I have no evidence that any type of god exists, having no evidence doesn’t prove anything in either direction. I’m always open to consider the possibility, but until evidence turns up and can be proven without a doubt, I will continue to be skeptical. Not sure if that makes me an Atheist, Agnostic or whatever, personally I consider myself a scientist. I continue to question everything, even if we think we know it to be true. I take nothing for granted unless I can reproduce the same results over and over again.
I think my skepticism came about in elementary school after seeing my first magic show. I was so amazed that I wanted nothing more than to be the best magician in the world. I saved all my pennies and finally convinced my mom to get me some magic books so I could begin my journey. When I got home and opened the book to learn my first magic feat, to my astonishment I found out that magic was nothing more than tricks and deception. I was so distraught, depressed and disappointed that from then on I decided to question everything. I then turned to math because to me, math was absolute. One plus one always equaled two, no matter what. Then I hit calculus in college and discovered imaginary numbers and suddenly the memory of magic came back to me. How could math betray me with such nonsense? Uhhgg LOL

Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.