Apologies if this has been suggested before but how about initiating a "Forgive a Christian Week?"
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2) Does the Christian even feel he needs the forgiveness? I am not a Christian but have seen some posts by Christians. Based off the ones I have read, it did not sound like they were seeking or looking for anyone's forgiveness. Maybe some of the posts I didn't read might have.
@Hulkster Re: "Does the Christian even feel he needs the forgiveness?"
Hmmmm.... Funny that. Considering I was raised as a Christian and taught Christian values/dogma in a Christian community and society, I can assure you from firsthand personal experience that Christians (at least EVERY one I've ever known) are CONSTANTLY seeking forgiveness. This can be done directly and/or indirectly. And it doesn't even have to be for something the individual actually DID. Forgiveness is often sought for something as benign as a thought or "feeling". I have even seen forgiveness asked for something SOMEBODY ELSE did that somehow made the individual asking forgiveness feel guilty. So, YEAH, believe me, Christians ALWAYS feel like they need forgiveness.
Therefore, I think Bill's idea is quite splendid. What a great opportunity to spread some love and give a Christian or two a few moments of relief by letting them know they are forgiven. By the way, Hulk, even though you are not Christian, we forgive you. *big grin*
@Searching for truth
Forgiveness is a common motif in Christianity. They commonly believe you are born needing forgiveness. Perhaps it is the word forgiveness that is tripping you up. A better phrase might be "supernatural forgiveness".
/e I just read that the concept does not exist in Islam. That might be the problem.
/ee Oh and just to get ahead of it; some Christian will probably post that it isn't about forgiveness; that it is about grace, faith, or some other bullshit. They love to split hairs about their non-sense; even though they can't agree with each other on these details.
@Searching for truth
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name,
thy kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those
who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power, and the glory,
for ever and ever. Amen.
This is what every christian learns and says from an early age.
type amen if you're bless reading this...
Blessed by what?
My Sunday school training just came flooding back. My mother considers herself a Christian, I'll forgive her for making attend indoctrination classes when I was too young to say no.
I too lived that life. Our mothers did what they thought was right. Even if they may not have given it much critical thought. I'm sure that they were under pressure to do so by their peers. How can we blame them? We see this every day. I do, anyway.
Cog was being a dick again - now he has to go back and remove a post. REMOVED in the interest of being fair.
Thanks for that explanation, I guess I took it as "forgive a Christian" for something they said on these forums and not the way you explained it.
Sorry for the previous comment. I get the misunderstanding. I will go back and remove it.
@David and Nyaralathop
Thanks, please see my above reply to Tinman
"By the way, Hulk, even though you are not Christian, we forgive you. *big grin*"
Thanks, how very Christian of you lol. Do I sense some reminisce of Christianity in that heartless chest of yours?
@Hulkster Re: "Do I sense some reminisce of Christianity in that heartless chest of yours?"
Nah. If I were being Christian, I would have added, "Bless your poor little heart. I'll be praying for you." And it would have been said with a very slight and subtle condescending tone. I grew up around it. It's almost like an artform with some folks. LOL
Bill, for almost every theist who posts in here, I bear no ill will. IMO they are blindly following a dogma taught to them from birth, and to make a quote, "for they do not know what they are doing".
Most do not read the bible fully and apply critical thought. Instead almost all cherry-pick what makes them feel warm and fuzzy, and cast off biblical conflicts as "it is out of context".
But I do forgive them, because their intent is positive and sincere.
My grievance is for those who know better, those who use religion for power or personal gain. And although there are many positive aspects of religion, it harbors barbaric and cruel practices as it's core values. And for anyone who defends or protects practices such as child abuse, you are my mortal enemy.
I have learned from my long and tumultuous life that hanging on to resentments and anger against others is like a cancer that eats away at the soul. I do not "hate" anyone, and I learned a long time ago to forgive those who did harm to me. My acts of forgiveness was not for their benefit, but instead to cleanse my soul, to allow me to greet each new day with a fresh and positive outlook.
Redemption figures large in the religious mind set - what better than coming from an infidel? I think a bunch of engaging atheists gathered outside a church, offering forgiveness for the vitriol expressed about them therein would help win some hearts and minds. Plus it would piss the clerics off no end ...
Soul? Interesting. Didn't think you believed in that. Or is it just a figure of speech? If so, why not find a word/term/figure of speech that will better describe what you mean as well as go hand in hand with atheism?
By the way, in with you on those who use religion for their personal gain and power. Worst people around
I just used the word "soul" to describe my self consciousness, personal well being, emotional health, and outlook on life.
My apologies in just being lazy and giving a very fuzzy description that is very open to misunderstanding.
Hey. I knew what you meant because I tend to use "soul" to mean exactly the same thing.
To add a bit more to my first post, I spent a vast majority of my life walking around day to day with an ever-present feeling of guilt, uncertainty, and some form of deep-seated dread that plagued pretty much every single aspect of my life. Why? Because it was instilled in me from the moment I became cognizant that there was some supreme invisible being watching everything I did, hearing everything I said, and knowing every thought I ever had. And that super-supreme being was constantly judging my thoughts and actions every single second of every single day. And that supreme being loved me beyond measure.......as long as I did not do anything of which it disapproved. But - Wait! - oh my goodness, even THEN it still loved me! Happy days! *clap-clap-clap* And all I had to do was ask it to forgive me, and all was well. Awesome.... EXCEPT, what if I didn't get a chance to ask forgiveness? Or what if I did (or thought) something I did not realize needed forgiving? And how exactly was I suppose to know every single thing that required forgiveness? Because according to what I was taught, even if you were a good and honest person your whole life, that was not guaranteed to please the supreme being. You actually had to sincerely BELIEVE a very certain way. And if you did not, the supreme being would know and would be unhappy with you. Good news, though, because the supreme being would still love you beyond measure...... even as it sent you to a place called Hell to be tortured forever. Therefore, about the only safe bet is to constantly keep asking for forgiveness, even if most times you are not even sure why you are asking. And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, pretty much sums up the Christian mentality. I have never known a Christan family member or friend who did not feel/think that way on some level. It's enough to drive a person bonkers.
I can see how being taught that from day 1 could force/push you to where you are today. As a Muslim, that's not something we believe in which was the reason for my initial reply to the OP when i asked why.
@Hulkster Re: "... as a Muslim, that's not something we believe in..."
Well, in that respect, consider yourself lucky. LOL
@Someone Doing the X-Files Thing (The truth is out there.)
I ain't never been religious, yet I forgive you. I'll also pray that you soon realize that your inexorable beliefs are based on faerie tales.
How is that for a life-long atheist?
I'll never decline a kind gesture. Not even one from an atheist. Even though based off you past posts to me it's I who should be forgiving you lol
@Bill Kilpatrick: how about initiating a "Forgive a Christian Week?"
Before you can receive forgiveness, you have to confess. What is Christianity guilty of?
See "United States 5.2.4 and 18.104.22.168" ...
Did they intend to give up being a Christian?
Because until they do they still gleefully believe that everyone who doesn't accept their nonsense should be brutally tortured for it.
I genuinely couldn't care if someone is religious or not, it has little impact on me... so if someone makes a mistake the directly concerns me then sure, I'd 'forgive' them.
But this is just common social practices that has been done since the dawn of man kind surely!
Make a small mistake that rocks the Apple cart and you are sincere that it was not intended... people will accept it and move on.
Make a big mistake or repeat the same mistake, you appear insincere and may be rejected.
@ Bill Kilpatrick: I really like your idea. I think you are on the right track. This is my concern. Christians will feel they are justified in asserting they do not need our forgiveness. "Who cares what the atheists do."
On the other hand..... What if we did something completely meaningless. How about "Pray for a Christian Day." We are not actually praying to anyone or anything, but we drop down on our knees and roll on the floor and talk in tongues while addressing the sky, wind, walls, or whatever, and create these solemn prayers for Christians to wake the hell up. In short we mimic them in satire, their prayers and their priests while denying that we are doing it.
I'm thinking along the lines of how pissed off the Jews got when they discovered the Mormons were converting dead Jews to the Mormon faith. (Oh wow! Another idea.)
On his show, Bill Maher did a Debaptism ceremony once. We could have a Christian DeBaptism day. (Can you imagine the rage?) Go out to a Nativity scene and Debaptize the baby Christ/ Ha ha ha ha ha .....
I like a DeBaptize Day but the name is all wrong. OH!!!! And we should do it in our toilets at home. Just get a picture of Ken Hamm, William Lane Craig, Ray Comfort, or whoever and hold a little antibaptism ceremony. (Antibaptism day) That sounds better.
There has to be something here that is funny and will torture Christians. Any other ideas....
Dress Like a Preacher Day! That would work. Dress up like your favorite Christian preacher. The Gay community would love this. Think of all the Popes and Bishops you would see walking around the town. Nothing like a fancy dress to make a man stand out in a crowd.
Something here has potential.
Ha ha ha ha ..... I got another.. Mar a Cross day. We have Draw Muhammad day and the Muslims are ready to kill us. The Christians actually think they are more liberal and loving than the Muslims. We know this is not true. Burn a Bible day. Mar a Cross Day. Fling poo at a church steeple day.
I like the OP's idea... what else can we come up with.
"Dress Like a Preacher Day! That would work. Dress up like your favorite Christian preacher. The Gay community would love this. Think of all the Popes and Bishops you would see walking around the town. Nothing like a fancy dress to make a man stand out in a crowd."
I must assume you have never heard of "The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence", gays who dress up like nuns (and other garb). I was on a subway platform one evening in Toronto, and witnessed about six of them, very gay gents, all dressed like nuns.
Or the Hunky Jesus contest