One Simple Question I Have For Atheists

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reedemption's picture
One Simple Question I Have For Atheists

Cosmologists propose that the universe was initially a massive gravitational singularity 13.8 billion years ago, but then it expanded.

My question: Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ reedemption

@ reedemption

My question: Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?

I don't know. I am betting you do not either....

CyberLN's picture
Have you asked

Have you asked astrophysicists or cosmologists this question? I just don’t understand why you’re asking such a question here.

chimp3's picture
Don't know! Not an amateur

Don't know! Not an amateur physicist myself! Registered Nurse is my trade.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: "Before the 13.8 billion

Re: "Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?"

Ummmm.... YES!.... Wait.... No?... *scratching head*.... Maybe?.... Oh, okay, I give up. Was it?..... *anxiously pacing*.... Well, c'mon, man! Don't keep us in suspense! Tell us the answer already!

xenoview's picture
@op

@op
Maybe the universe contracts and expands.

Nyarlathotep's picture
The standard model of

The standard model of cosmology does not require singularities.

Grinseed's picture
I could only confidently tell

I could only confidently tell you how to drive big trucks and how to make Lobster mornay (keep calm CyberLN).

But as a curious ape with a computer and internet access, I did find this for you
Singularities

Hope it helps, although it doesn't directly answer your question but as Nyar has suggested it does state "Some more recent proposals also suggest that the Universe did not begin as a singularity."

chimp3's picture
Recently we have too many

Recently, we have too many long winded preachers who don't debate. I don't like it!

Cognostic's picture
RE: Before the 13.8 billion

RE: Before the 13.8 billion years

No one can say anything for certain about "before," We don't know and neither do you.

You can find the exact same answer in ANY SCIENCE BOOK..

"The Big Bang is commonly thought of as the start of it all: About 13.8 billion years ago, the observable universe went boom and expanded into being.

"But what were things like before the Big Bang? Short answer: We don't know. Long answer: It could have been a lot of things, each mind-bending in its own way. "

What is going on in your own mind, that you just can not accept the answer?

https://www.livescience.com/65254-what-happened-before-big-big.html

How about this idea: The current Big Bang is just one of many Big Bangs.
"The universe is at least 986 billion years older than physicists thought. The revolutionary study suggests that time did not begin with the big bang 14 billion years ago. This mammoth explosion which created all the matter we see around us, was just the most recent of many."
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2006/may/05/spaceexploration.universe

WE DON'T KNOW.....
There are hypothesis all over the internet. Pick your Poison --- but don't believe it until evidence and facts support it.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: "Before the 13.8 billion

Re: "Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?"

Hmmm.... Well now... THIS is interesting.... Google is quite handy...

Singleton:

noun: singleton; plural noun: singletons

* a single person or thing of the kind under consideration.

• a child or animal born singly, rather than one of a multiple birth.

• (in card games, especially bridge) a card that is the only one of its suit in a hand.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what ANY of that has to do with the beginning of our universe.... *totally perplexed look on face*...

chimp3's picture
Singleton, Schmingleton!

Singleton, Schmingleton! Simpleton, Schmimpleton!

Nyarlathotep's picture
Tin-Man - [Singleton] • (in

Tin-Man - [Singleton] • (in card games, especially bridge) a card that is the only one of its suit in a hand.

That is pretty much what it means in mathematics, it is a set with only 1 element.

So the set of all spades in a hand that only contains 1 spade; would be a singleton in mathematics as well as bridge.
----------------------------
And like you said, what any of that has to do with the post in question is beyond me.

cranky47's picture
"My question: Before the 13.8

"My question: Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?"

Why have you asked such a specialist question here?

As far as I'm aware we have no member claiming to be a physicist .

I have the distinct impression that you are being disingenuous. That you have no genuine interest in the answer to your question. That rather, you are deliberately trying to 'catch us out' or embarrass us. I'd be willing to bet the answer to your question can be found with some simple Googling.

We don't need to be so underhanded with you. As far as I can see, you do a bang up job of embarrassing yourself, regularly.

I have no idea. I DO happen to know a man who is an astro physicist. I once asked him 'what was before the big bang?" He said "there WAS no 'before'. He then gave a long and detailed explanation, but that was the last thing he said that I understood. What with not also being a physicist and all .

As it turns out, I am not at all reluctant to say "I don't know " . This is far more often the case than it is not . I have an insatiable curiosity, and am always ready to learn ,as long as I have the right to question.

I DO have a major failing ;I don't suffer fools.

Cognostic's picture
@Cranky47: RE: "I have the

@Cranky47: RE: "I have the distinct impression that you are being disingenuous. That you have no genuine interest in the answer to your question. That rather, you are deliberately trying to 'catch us out' or embarrass us. I'd be willing to bet the answer to your question can be found with some simple Googling."

I fully agree that your interpretation would be correct had this guy had a basic understanding of physics. He does not.

Still, with all said and done...... If you want an answer to a physics question, go visit a physics site. There are no valid arguments from the science of physics that supports the existence of a god. If there were, preachers would be screaming it from the pulpits and sidewalk corners. They aren't. the argument does not exist.

Sheldon's picture
reedemption "One Simple

reedemption "One Simple Question I Have For Atheists
Cosmologists propose that the universe was initially a massive gravitational singularity 13.8 billion years ago, but then it expanded. My question: Before the 13.8 billion years (whatsoever), was the gravitational singleton still present?"

Why are you asking atheists? If cosmologists propose this then ask them.

A Gnostic Agnostic's picture
I am agnostic about this. I

I am agnostic about this. I have ideas, but they rely on "beliefs" that I keep to my self, because they may not be true. I only talk about "beliefs" when asked, like asking for the backroom stock for something otherwise not seen.

But it remains something potentially to be known; if not, more to be known about the unknown. Knowing I know not, I know I believe it is possible this can, in fact, one day, be known. Who knows? I know not.

I know the gravity of any matter can be like a black hole: collapsed in on itself so that nothing escapes it, and anything that comes near it has no practical chance of escaping its force beyond a certain event horizon. How is one to know that "whatever matters to a person" and "gravity" are not linked? Is there not a kind of "gravity" to a set of "beliefs" that act on (as) a being? Would this not make each the bearer of their own gravity, such that those who have more matters attached experience time more slowly?

I know that a clock ticking on the planet and a clock ticking 20 000km above the planet, with respect, will tick slower/faster by comparison, and this is a known property of General Relativity: time is linked with space such that as gravity increases, time slows and as gravity decreases, time quickens. Space-time is thus a "fabric" and inter-dependent.

What this means to a conscious human being is probably incomprehensible: if ones own "whatever matters" (ie. materially/immaterially) is somehow immutably linked to the fabric of space-time itself, just as beings are immutably bound to time/gravity itself, is there a relationship between the two? What does this say of the "gravity" of a claim, such as a "belief"-based assertion? Can black holes be thought of as "collection collapses" that birth (into, as) new universes suited to them? Might this have a relationship to esoteric understandings of how beings are "naturally" 'one' with the universe?

Will there be a "theory of everything" that re-calibrates humanity under a new practical standard of self-evident truths?

This is why we need science - to grow up out of ignorance and outgrow ourselves into something greater than we already are.

"BELIEF" is DEAD.
(con)SCIENCE is ALL.

Khhaannnnnn!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnSnfiUI54

Kataclismic's picture
Shouldn't you be asking

Shouldn't you be asking cosmologists? Why are you asking atheists?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNdwt1gy5xM

Sheldon's picture
@reedemption

@reedemption

Here you go, knock yourself out...

https://youtu.be/e2dYW1pSQy8

That short video entirely tears your thread assertions into titchy tiny fallacious unevidenced superstition.

QED..

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon: Good Choice -

@Sheldon: Good Choice - He will never watch it!

Sheldon's picture
@Cognostic.

@Cognostic.

I agree, anyone who thinks they can ignore simple word definitions, is never going to trouble themselves with understanding fallacies in informal logic. However everytime he lies that he is using rational arguments, and/or logical proofs from now on will get that simple explanation of the logical fallacy he keeps using linked.

These people are devoid of integrity, and never feel embarrassed by their dishonesty, but that won't stop me pointing it out each and everytime.

Sheldon's picture
So not only has this

So not only has this dishonest clown not bothered to direct his question to the appropriate scientific sources, he hasn't even the integrity to acknowledge the responses he's had here.

Too busy boasting on some theist site that he has "disproved atheism" no doubt. Dear oh dear but each and everytime they breeze in here full of hubris and using fallacious God of the gaps arguments, their beliefs just seem even more vapid and pointless to me.

Ricardo's picture
I dont know !

I dont know !

David Killens's picture
This question belongs in an

This question belongs in an physics forum, not here.

The amusing part is that even if the big bang, and everything associated with it proves to be false, that does not prove a god.

reedemption's picture
@Sheldon

@Sheldon

O, Boo-hoo! Atheists are even more guilty of the appeal to ignorance fallacy! "We CaN't ObSeRvE oR DeTeCt GoDs/SpIrItUal ReAlMs, ThErEfOrE, tHey DoN't ExIsT, HuUuUuNh..."

By the way, nice (dumb) thread you opened solely for me when you atheists equally commit ad ignorantiam and ad hominem fallacies. Stop ranting and take a sit.

@Cognostic
You really wished I went away, didn't you? LMFAO! Seriously how can I post gifs on these forums lol?

David Killens's picture
@reedemption

@reedemption

"By the way, nice (dumb) thread you opened solely for me when you atheists equally commit ad ignorantiam and ad hominem fallacies. Stop ranting and take a sit."

Although I will not comment on the motivation, what Sheldon did was appropriate by opening a new thread on a different topic. You have the opportunity to comment on his assertions IN THAT THREAD.

So grow a set and if that thread pains your butt, then comment in that thread instead of whining in this thread.

LogicFTW's picture
@Thread

@Thread
So let me get this straight:

reedemption comes to atheist debate forums. Accuses atheist of being "even more guilty of the appeal to ignorance fallacy!" Then paraphrases us to talk like: "HuUuUuNh...."

But can't be bothered to figure out and follow directions on how to post "gifs" on these forums. And wants answers from the same folks he basically think are stupider than he is. All the while responding in a thread he considers "dumb."

If you are trolling for responses, well played sir.

If you are not actually trolling, I gotta ask: how old are you? You seem to have some basic writing skills, but seem unable to actually understand what a debate even is, or how poorly you state your position in this debate.

 
 

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I am an atheist that always likes a good debate
Please include @LogicFTW for responses to me
Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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Sheldon's picture
reedemption "O, Boo-hoo!

reedemption "O, Boo-hoo! Atheists are even more guilty of the appeal to ignorance fallacy! "We CaN't ObSeRvE oR DeTeCt GoDs/SpIrItUal ReAlMs, ThErEfOrE, tHey DoN't ExIsT, HuUuUuNh..."

I have never claimed this champ, so nice straw man fallacy. The dumbest part of that lie however is that you clearly haven't addressed your relentless use an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy. So stamp your foot all you want, no one's impressed.

"

reedemption "By the way, nice (dumb) thread you opened solely for me when you atheists equally commit ad ignorantiam and ad hominem fallacies. Stop ranting and take a sit."

Thank you, any chance will you will ever show any integrity and actually address your relentless use of that particularly common logical fallacy, or is sulking teenage girl to be your go to response? No need to make another evasive faux response, I think we can all see the answer.

reedemption "@Cognostic You really wished I went away, didn't you? LMFAO! Seriously how can I post gifs on these forums lol?"

Oh as tedious and predictable as your BS trolling about your superstition is, I somehow doubt Cognostic cares, it's mainfestly clear you disappeared up your own arse some time ago, and watching you talk out of it is as clear a validation of atheism as I can possibly imagine.

Your ball, champ....

Cognostic's picture
@Redemption: RE: "We CaN't

@Redemption: RE: "We CaN't ObSeRvE oR DeTeCt GoDs/SpIrItUal ReAlMs, ThErEfOrE, tHey DoN't ExIsT, HuUuUuNh..."

This is called a "STRAW MAN FALLACY." It is not the atheist position. You may have an atheist brave enough to argue the position, in which case he would be an Anti-theist. The atheist position is much simpler and requires no burden of proof. We CaN't ObSeRvE oR DeTeCt GoDs/SpIrItUal ReAlMs, ThErEfOrE, wE hAvE nO rEaSoN tO bElIeVe SuCh ClAiMs.

RE: Gifs, Look below this box. See the box that says "None?" Click on it. A drop down menu will appear. Click on "Yes" You must save what you want to post to your computer. Now you will be given the option "Choose file." You choose the file you want to upload and click on the upload button. Read the instructions. If the file is too big. it will not upload. Scroll down and type in the secret code. You're done.

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reedemption's picture
@Cognostic

@Cognostic

Sorry, sir!
There was a time the earth was thought to be flat, it took the circumnavigation of the earth to debunk such error. Theists never had to justify why or how God until Atheists like you came around screaming "we have seen no scientific and empirical proof of god!"
Hence, onus is on you to act like Christopher Columbus and prove otherwise. Otherwise, your ranting is like telling flat-earthers to prove that the earth is flat.
So you see the "sillyness" of your position!

David Killens's picture
@reedemption

@reedemption

"There was a time the earth was thought to be flat, it took the circumnavigation of the earth to debunk such error."

Between 500 and 450 BC Anaxagoras determined the true cause of solar and lunar eclipses, and based on the shadow this Earth cast on the Moon, round was the correct answer. 150 years later Eratosthenes calculated the diameter of the Earth with great accuracy.

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