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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Breezy

@ Breezy

"Our purpose is the use of those functions we have been given"

Given? By whom or what?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
It doesn't matter by whom or

It doesn't matter by whom or what.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Breezy

@ Breezy

When you use the word 'Given" of course it matters by whom or what or your statement of life as a 'gift' is nonsensical.

I appreciate you dont like your fundamentalism being exposed, but, as before, you cant just help yourself can you? It is part of your world view and that will always come out even when heavily disguised.. Surely basic psychology would have taught you that early on.

So given by whom or what?

Or do you want to redraft your statement...you know edit it post the fact?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
The form of a screwdriver

The form of a screwdriver gives it a clear purpose, namely, to drive screws. How it came about doesn't matter. It could have fallen from the sky, evolved over millennia, or been made in China. Its purpose is determined by its form and function, not its origin.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Wheezy Breezy. "The form of

@ Wheezy Breezy. "The form of a screwdriver"

Probably the second most intellectually dishonest drivel I have read here.

You inadvertently, I am sure, claimed the origin as a "gift" now you are claiming this "gift" of life and purpose is as "unimportant" or mundane as a screwdriver and its origins don't matter. . Please, follow that to its conclusion.

I am not going to bother to chase up the multi colored herrings you have in your answer, I am sure you realise what a total load of codswallop you typed.

Have a coffee and try again.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Show me how origins matters

Show me how origin matters to my argument; as it stands I do not see it.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Wheezy ducking and diving

@ Wheezy ducking and diving

Show me how the false analogy of a screwdriver matters...then answer the question I posed.

You said it. "given" now justify it.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
The analogy matters because

The analogy matters because both mechanical and biological functions, are a product of their form.

Also note that your question was: given by whom or what. Embedded in that question is the ambiguity of my position. It isn't committed to a "who" or a "what." It is open-ended, otherwise you couldn't have asked that question in that way.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Oh do quit wriggling Breezy.

Oh do quit wriggling Breezy.

We all know exactly what you mean, we just want you to be grown up, honest, and fess up for once. Then we can move on.

Who/whom/what 'gifted' us?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I'm rather consistent for

I'm rather consistent for someone that's wriggling.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Brezy rub a dub "I'm rather

@ Brezy rub a dub "I'm rather consistent for"

Yes your wriggling, ducking, diving, mendacity and smart arse one liners are super consistent.

But fooling no one.

So who/whom/what did the gift come from?

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ John 6Ix dodgy

@ John 6Ix dodgy "It doesn't matter."

Then why say it?

Sushisnake's picture
A gift that's unimportant and

A gift that's unimportant and mundane? I've received a few of those over the years. Sometimes you can regift them, other times you donate them to a charity, some, you keep in the back of the cupboard taking up way too much space because it's fearfully fugly but you can't bring yourself to get rid of it because its the last thing Great Aunt Joan ever gave you. Is that the sort of gift John means, OM?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Sushisnake

@ Sushisnake
I think breezy fondly and erroneously believes himself to be covered in a Hogwarts "Cloak of Invisibility" perhaps that's the gift he means.
But wait..no ( shhh,I think he means god...) dont tell anyone.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
For what is worth (which is

For what is worth (which is practically nothing at this point), I never called it a gift.

Sushisnake's picture
No you didn't, that's why I

No you didn't, that's why I acknowledged I was strawmanning you. Off-topic, you know how we were talking about attributing psychologies to each other on another thread ? This is what it looks like. We expound on the psychology of an atheist- even though some believe in ghosts and psychics and others believe Erich von Däniken was right and others don't believe in any supernatural things; we expound on the psychology of a Christian- even though there's 40,000+ varieties of Christianity precisely because they believe different things. We ascribe characteristics to each other instead of asking and we play guess my beliefs instead of just stating them. Silly, isn't it?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Sushi snake "No you didn't,

@ Sushi snake "No you didn't, that's why I"

Here are Breezy's exact words

"Our purpose is the use of those functions we have been given. Perhaps the most important function we have, and the one upon which all others rest upon, is life; therefore our purpose is to live."

I have repeatedly asked where "given" (the conjugation of that word ends up as "gift") originated, and as usual received evasion, word salad but no outright lies this time. Although he cannot seem to conjugate the verb given. Also no firm answer is forthcoming as usual..

Hence my post. Breezy DID describe a "gift" as in "we have been given" so, Sushi, you did not "strawman'. Breezy did his duck, weave. and shuffle to avoid exposing his fundamentalist opinion. Exactly as you have described in this post. Bravo you. Wished I live closer we could share a decent Clare Valley shiraz!

Edited for clarity.
Edited for grammar

Sushisnake's picture
We get stuck in this game

We get stuck in this game that goes something like this...

" What do you believe?"

"Well, I'm a (insert label here) and I don't believe x"

"Yeah, ok, but what DO you believe?"

"Well, as I said, I'm a ( insert label here)."

" Yeah, I got that, but ( insert label here) can encompass all kinds of beliefs. It just doesn't help me. So, what do you personally believe?"

"Well, as I said, I'm a ( insert label here). You're a ( insert opposite label here), so you believe y."

" Hang on! I don't believe y at all! And I didn’t ask you what you DON’T believe, I asked you what you DO believe!"

The rare occasions when you can step out of the game and just share are Red Letter days. I've only got a handful marked on my calendar.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Gift is not a conjugate of

Gift is not a conjugate of given. That's why you can give a gift and likewise give a punishment. But you can't give a given.

My emphasis has constantly been on what we have been given, not who or what gave it. Those functions could have been given by evolution, by aliens, by life, or by unicorns, by biology, by America, my argument stays the same regardless.

Sushisnake's picture
What have we been given and

What have we been given and why is it significant to you?
If somebody gave me the flu, what would it signify?

I'm not being snide, John, I really am trying to understand you. You seem to prize human life above all things regardless of the cost and I'm trying to understand why? Is it a religious conviction or the conviction that the next aborted foetus might be the next Stephen Hawking or Beethoven or Jonas Salk?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Breezy Wheezy not so easy

@ Breezy Wheezy not so easy "Gift is not a conjugate of"

Here's a note from a grammarian: "this noun-verb duality is very common in English with probably thousands (tens of thousands?) of examples. Do you object to "walk" as a verb because one can also say "take a walk"? Next, "gift" as a verb isn't redundant at all. In fact, it is quite useful as a more concise way to express the idea. "Giving" doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as "gifting". If it merely leaves my hands and passes to yours, I have given it to you. I may or may not have gifted it to you. to you."
Once again nit picking instead of debating the subject.

Do stop it child. You are wriggling, bouncing hiding and being unbearably clever. I am a parent and grandparent I have seen and tolerated all these behaviours you exhibit in my own and foster kids. I don't think you are a bad person or even a precocious one.

Do try to be mature. Take TM as an example instead of Spongebob Squarepants.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I'm pretty sure that quote is

I'm pretty sure that quote is in favor of my position not yours lol.

mickron88's picture
"our purpose appears to

"our purpose appears to simply be to multiply."

or were like an ant farm, someday somehow someone or something will harvest us..
in the movie "jupiter ascending" we are like Elixir for the aliens..pretty cool huh?

sorry if i'm getting off context..
lets look deeply to just the being...

whats the purpose of human deformities?down syndrome? mental illnesses..etc..
is their purpose to live a life like that? to give burden?
looks like they don't have any choice huh?

Sushisnake's picture
Man, you reminded me of that

Man, you reminded me of that Stephen King take on the afterlife where we're tortured and forced to labour for psychopathic, capricious, sadistic ants for eternity. The ants in their turn are tortured and forced to labour for psychopathic, capricious, sadistic gods for eternity. I don't know who the gods labour for- probably the mice.

Tin-Man's picture
@Sushi Re: The mice

@Sushi Re: The mice

Well, the little white mice DO control everything, right? LOL

LucyAustralopithecus's picture
haha I would actually be

haha I would actually be quiet in favour of that, providing they are a higher life that does not put up with silly myths.

Back on the topic though, I'm not sure if my assertion in the opening post in clear (and I apologise if my grasp of the English language is not as good as I hope haha!), so I will perhaps simplify it.

- Within the vastness (likely infinite) universe, The milky way, The solar system, Earth and Human kind are not important.
(We are but a mere speck!, From an outside perspective, we are just another rock orbiting a dying star)

- The Sun WILL deplete its fuel source in due time and in the process destroy this system
(Not to mention other possible issues, Andromeda collision course, Large undetected asteroids, Universal heat death and so on.)

- Therefore the only purpose we as a species have, is that which we label or put upon ourselves.
(We put importance upon ourselves and laud our planet and creations within)

- Purpose is purely subjective and can only be considered by ourselves from our points of view.

I hope I've made it a little clearer this time around.

NewSkeptic's picture
Hate to be a corrector for my

Hate to be a corrector for my first post, but our little sun lacks mass to go supernova. Instead it will balloon out to a red giant then settle down to a white dwarf. Perhaps if AI is still running things in 5 Billion or so years, it will figure out how to survive by changing Earth's orbit as needed, at least for awhile.

As for purpose, I find it subjective and I don't really have a reason to care that the vast universe won't share my subjective purpose.


Attach Image/Video?: 

LucyAustralopithecus's picture
Hello NewSkeptic, And welcome

Hello NewSkeptic, And welcome! That is fine and please feel free to comment anytime,
It is fine, I did mention in another post I had made a mistake in my haste, but I won't edit as it allows for conversation and
I am happy to point out my errors and that of others, we all do it when we try to post quickly in the brief time that we have.

Yes once the helium fuses to carbon the Sun will run out of available helium, and the core will collapse further and as the outer atmosphere continues to move away, Then the Sun becomes a planetary nebula.

It is possible, 1.4 suns is the typical minimum for going supernova, but it isn't beyond all realms of possibility.

It is essential for the process that the sun gains no mass which is very unlikely to happen, but as stated with the possible collision/or merging with Andromeda that will certainly happen, anything is possible including a star orbiting another star.

The number of possible outcomes/scenarios are immense.

Randomhero1982's picture
Don't worry, everyone does it

Don't worry, everyone does it.

It's any interesting point, and not one I've really given thought to.

But perhaps I'd offer this, since the end game is that we all die... perhaps if there is a subjective purpose at all, then it is to die.

From the moment we are born it is at the end of every person's path.

Sorry to be Mr Doom Merchant, but that's a simple fact lol


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