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Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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I don't have a problem. It's you that take exception of your faith being questioned. Frankly, I really don't care. You are rather touchy about your faith, which suggests that there is a specific insecurity there.
If I were to claim that I know the blue cow that hides behind the sun, people on this forum would challenge me on it. Would I need their approval to believe I know the blue cow? No, but it doesn't mean they don't have the right to challenge me on it. So you can project all you want, and blame me, for your own problem. Just be ready to answer for your claims. It's not that you made a demonstrative claim in the first place. I'm sure and I believe that it was a completely honest and innocent claim. That does not alleviate the fact that you made it. Therefore you will be challenged. No, you don't HAVE to answer or prove anything, basically since you can't. And if it hurts your feelings, sorry and too bad. You said: 1) that you have a personal relationship with god, and 2) that you follow jesus but have no religion (or to that effect).
#2 is impossibility, and #1 needs to be proven. You have taken my challenge as a personal attack, which it clearly is not.
All right, break it up you two. :)
Are you're actually fighting about that your not fighting?!
This is an old story but I saw something on television about the scientist responsible for the "God helmet" and his research. His studies show that evolution and religious concepts are somewhat interdependent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/belief-and-the-brains-god-spot...
Giving god a personality is the easiest way of explaining things that otherwise wouldn't make sense. Things like airplane crashes. If there was a god looking out for us then there wouldn't be airplane crashes but with a personality he could be irritated that day and flick it out of the sky like a buzzing mosquito. Why do people catch on fire? Because god has a personality. Why do birds crap on my head when I sit on a bench under a tree? Because god has a personality. Oh no wait, that has to do with gravity, anyway...
This doesn't change the fact that the theist is still talking about a relationship they have with their self.
@mykcob - I don't take exception to anyone questioning anything...you seem to take exception to me not feeling the need to entertain your desire for ''proof.'' Project much? ;=)
Deidre,
I tried to send you a private message, when I put in your name it would not let me send the message. Would you please message me, as I have been reading your posts, and I would love to hear more of your story of how you came back to faith. Many thanks! :)
@Deidre - The thread was started by mykcob4 challenging a person to give evidence to prove they have a relationship with god. That was the whole thread, the whole challenge. The challenge was not to assert something for assertions sake, which is what you did. So when you get back on topic we are all watching intently, but making assertions on a thread that asks for evidence means either you missed the topic of the thread or you just want to be annoying.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!
None of you know for sure if a God exists or doesn't. You may believe one doesn't, but that doesn't make it so. Just like you assert that my beliefs don't make it so. You assert that there is no god as if you know, with certainty. So perhaps you should approach the topic with more humility, instead of pretending to know things with absolute certainty, that you simply don't know. Even Einstein had a more open mind. :)
@ Freelslave, I don't know why my pm's are appearing closed....I will check them and pm you back. Sorry about that!
There is nothing that I "Believe". And, it is generally accepted that logic alone is enough to disprove the gods of Abraham religions. There is no pretending there. Your dog does not hunt.
What we ARE certain of is that no one, and I mean no one has proven a god. We didn't make up god, so we don't have to prove it doesn't exist. That onus is on the believer. Humility? Really? You want us to humble to YOU and your god? How goddamned arrogant!
Arrogant indeed. Ignorance may play a factor as well, I feel.
I did pose a unique (albeit scrambled and occasionally implicit) argument that you decided to dismiss by leaving a post saying so. I had hoped that you would humor me in the spirit of debate. Maybe you would read it at the topic, 'The Usual with a Twist.'
No one was calling You arrogant. The line of replies is somewhat confusing on this forum. You'll get use to it.
I know I was not the target. I had just hoped for a little more traffic for my first post, considering that it presents an apologetic argument never before devised.
@mykcob - I never posted to ''humble to me or my god.' lol You're really different in pm.Like a different person. Guess you don't want your pals to see you being kind to a theist. lol
I'm done replying to you...have a good one.
Are you suggesting that atheism is some sort of Machiavellian Monstrosity that uses insults as an attempt to make us seem "better", while only allowing us to be kind to theists on the rarest of occasions? I'm kind to theists, but I'm not just going to sit on my arsenal and let them ramble without giving a rebuttal. It's a matter of principal.
Too bad you can't differentiate between asking for facts ana an insult. I warned you that I am not warm and fuzzy. I am an in your face inquisitor. I took exception to someone making unsolicited comments toward you. Those statements by that person were distasteful and had nothing to do with the thread. If anyone makes a claim, they must expect to support that claim. that is all that has happened here, nothing more. Your indignation of being asked for that evidence says more about your insecurity than your rational.
Deirdre - we live in a relativistic world. All we have to go on is our point of view. what I mean when I say point of view is not individual logic but rather we can only observe the universe around us from our perspective and so that is the basis of our reality. This is established science.
Thus I can never say with absolute certainty whether an object exists or not. I can only infer that it may more likely than not exist or not based on the available evidence.
Which means I cannot say with absolute certainty that you exist or not however I can infer that you do exist because I have seen your posts.
In case of my girlfriend, I infer that she exists because I can see her and a lot of other people have a similar inference which means more likely than not, she exists. (We could all be wrong and she could just be a shared hallucination or a dream, but that is unlikely given the evidence.)
In the case of God
The only mention of a God comes through religion and so for evidence we must look at the particulars of the God as per that religion.
The Abrahamic God as with most other Gods described in their respective books seems absurd and so they can be argued against or rather there is proof to the contrary in regards to their existence.
In case of personal Gods much like your own.
1. Your belief though respectable and more humane a solution than organised religion does not provide any information or evidence in support of Your God.
2. The only evidence you require is that you believe, but It is not sufficient to others for obvious reasons (I hope you understand)
3. Scientific advancements seem to indicate that God is not required for creating, maintaining or destroying the universe and/or life.
Thus to sum up ; A God or Gods (personal/ Deistic but not the one in the bible ) can exist however due to lack of any evidence in support of this IT IS MORE LIKELY THAT THERE IS NO GOD.
I haven’t been rude to any of you. You all have attacked me for whatever your reasons. And I was an atheist for a few years up until last year when I returned to faith, but when I was an atheist, is when I actually first joined this site. I don’t see the need for strife between either side. What I am saying is someone was very nice to me in pm, but not in the open forum. That’s kind of sad to me. Some of you like to add a ton of things to people’s posts that just aren’t there…and then argue about things the person never posted. I’m not interested in sparring...but these are my observations.
True. But, as I said, our actions stand as a matter of principal, not as an attempt to insult or attack you. It really is just business.
That's fair, thank you for clarifying that, then.
I'm still trying to understand why (if you are no longer an atheist) you are commenting on an atheist site about god and then accusing the atheists of attacking you. It would be like me going to a flat-Earther's blog intending to teach them trigonometry and getting upset when they howl me down for showing them mathematics. That's exactly what I would (and should) expect.
You don't make any sense Deidre, but then I don't know many theists who do so at least you comply with your position.
I'm new to this thread and website. I am a Christian, but agree with what is being said here. Actually the Bible teaches that God doesn't speak to man today other than the written word He has given. Hebrews 1:2 says that God speaks through His son, Jesus Christ, and Jesus told His apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles into all truth (1 Pet. 1:20-22). That truth would then be written down (Jn. 17:17) and is what would work in the lives of men through personal accountability and responsibility (Col. 3:16).
I will warn you now: if you are the type to use "Biblical Arguments" you will get nowhere, and fast. None of the atheists here take the Bible as any kind of truth. Using it as a source will do you no good.
I'm different than most, if not all, that you have encountered. It is my guess that most, if not all, you've spoken with concerning Biblical arguments were ignorant or misunderstood the Bible. Don't judge a book by its cover. Let's dialogue.
That's not why I dismiss biblical arguments. I myself have read it countless times. My conclusion: It's all arbitrarily archaic malarkey that's worth nothing more than use as a fire starter. I will also tell you now, i feel that the existence of an almighty being would be detrimental to humanity's overall potential. With this in mind, do you wish to continue your dialogue with me?
Gabriel - "It is my guess that most, if not all, you've spoken with concerning Biblical arguments were ignorant or misunderstood the Bible"
Damn near every apologists I've ever talked with has made a similar claim.
/e
It is rather insulting as "Xavier de Forres" eluded to above. It seems to imply that we are not capable of understanding written English.
Gabriel, if I may redirect you to a post made by my young protege:.
http://www.atheistrepublic.com/forums/debate-room/window-theory
Read this before continuing.
You think that you are different, and everyone IS an individual, but if you use the bible as a reference you will be soundly rejected. As the bible is a book of myths, allegory, and hearsay. It isn't verified by any means.
I'm new to this thread and website. I am a Christian, but agree with what is being said here. Actually the Bible teaches that God doesn't speak to man today other than the written word He has given. Hebrews 1:2 says that God speaks through His son, Jesus Christ, and Jesus told His apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles into all truth (1 Pet. 1:20-22). That truth would then be written down (Jn. 17:17) and is what would work in the lives of men through personal accountability and responsibility (Col. 3:16).
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