"How unfortunate is the man who does not know that he has a God Who has power to do all that He wills. Our paradise lies in our God. Our highest delight is in our God for we have seen Him and have found every beauty in Him. This wealth is worth procuring though one might have to lay down one’s life to procure it. This ruby is worth purchasing though one may have to lose oneself to acquire it. O ye, who are bereft! run to this fountain and it will satisfy you. It is the fountain of life that will save you. What shall I do, and how shall I impress the hearts with this good news, and by beating what drum shall I make the announcement that this is our God, so that people might hear? What remedy shall I apply to the ears of the people so that they should listen?”
A living faith is that through which we can find the Living God. The Living God is He Who can make us a direct recipient of revelation, or could at least bring us in contact with one who has been a direct recipient of revelation. I convey this good news to the whole world that the God of Islam is such a Living God.
Answer to the FOUR Main Questions I found in the discussions on this Site:
a)Religion has led to problems – it is the distortion of religion that has caused
problems, while actual religious teachings have led to resolution of the same
problems time and again throughout history.
b) Religion is dogmatic – misled and misunderstood ‘religion’ can lead to dogma, but
not if understood as guided by God’s apostles.
c) Progress of man is not linked to religion – societies that progressed followed the
principles that are taught by religion, and the societies that declined did so because
they had stopped following those principles.
d) God’ is a product of human thought – universal quest, pre-historic evidence of
peoples’ belief in God, even before the prophets came, and majority are believers
prove otherwise. Factually it is not true that that there was no concept of God
originally and that it is a recent product of ‘organised religion’. Cycles of belief and
disbelief have occurred in history, with advent of prophets re-igniting belief and
consequent justice and development, which is then lost over time due to human
deviation from the original teachings, and the cycle is restarted with the advent of
the next prophet.
Subscription Note:
Choosing to subscribe to this topic will automatically register you for email notifications for comments and updates on this thread.
Email notifications will be sent out daily by default unless specified otherwise on your account which you can edit by going to your userpage here and clicking on the subscriptions tab.
@Belieber ....
"Religion ensures peace."
Yup.... pretty much....... its just a shame that its "the peace of the graveyard"...
The opposite is true. Tribalism based on religion is one of the major causes of human conflict and there is no such thing as harmless superstition.
Another drive by proselytising from a gibbering brainwashed devotee of a bronze age cult. I know it's Easter and these idiots can't resist a full moon, but fuck me this is really becoming quite tedious now.
"Religion ensures peace"
Is so stupidly and obviously wrong, it's an own goal of gargantuan proportions.
I'm calling this one, troll. The alternative is someone indoctrinated into religion, but so ill-informed that they are unaware of the blood soaked history of religion, I'm not buying it. The bilge in his post is meaningless drivel.
@Sheldon
I am afraid that the Real history says something else:
Quest for God is well known to have existed from pre-historic times and well before we
had ‘messengers’ who introduced God formally. There is archaeological and historical
evidence of religious rituals and worshipping a ‘higher authority’ in the indigenous
populations of Americas, Middle East and Australia. This evidence dates back to
around 70,000 years ago, virtually the age of modern human race evolving in North-East
Africa and beginning to spread around the globe. Why would such a common
quest exist amongst all these people who lived in diverse geographical and cultural
setups and had no ways of inter-communication, particularly when no such thing like
God exists?
We know that prophets lived in different times and in different parts of the world, without
any communication whatsoever between them. In addition, prophets are well known to be
people with highest standards of moral dignity and truthfulness, and there is no exception to
this rule. If we then observe a common theme in the teaching of all known prophets, is it not
likely to be true? All prophets talked about God as the ultimate creator and master of all
existence. The prophets also taught us about a process of accountability in an after-life.
Life histories of all prophets present an amazing account. They are virtually alone at the time
of their initial claim to be recipients of ‘God’s message’, usually very weak in comparison to
their adversaries in worldly resources, and they face strong persecution at the hands of their
opposition which usually much more worldly power than the prophets. Prophets
demonstrate incredible patience, tolerance, grace and forgiveness in return. What we then
see is that all prophets ultimately succeed in achieving what they had set for, while the
opposition is unsuccessful in preventing them to achieve their goals. Throughout their lives,
prophets claim that they are acting under ‘Divine command’, and that they are in receipt of
‘Divine support’.
This has been the case of Adam, Noah, Lot, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Confucius, Jonah,
Jacob, Job, Joseph, Krishna, Moses, Aaron, Zoroaster, David, Solomon, Buddha, Elisha,
Zachariah, John, Jesus and Muhammad [peace be on all of them], to name some.
>>Religions are steeped in blood, they have behaved and do behave barbarically, to claim otherwise is absurdly dishonest. I don't care how old superstition is, this proves nothing but that humans are and always have been superstitious, it is something we can reason against, and certainly something we can do without.
"We know that prophets lived in different times and in different parts of the world, without
any communication whatsoever between them."
>>No we don't, a claim is not evidence or knowledge. Hitchens's razor applied
"prophets are well known to be people with highest standards of moral dignity and truthfulness, "
>>No they're not, Hitchens's razor applied.
"All prophets talked about God as the ultimate creator and master of all
existence. The prophets also taught us about a process of accountability in an after-life."
>>Woo woo nonsense, unless you can you demonstrate any objective evidence for any deity, or an afterlife?
Believer,
Who told you that ancient religious views, if any existed, bear any relationship whatsoever to the monotheistic, omnipotent god you seem to believe in? If they believed at all, it would probably be tree spirits, river spirits, rock spirits, etc. Humans probably evolved to assign human-like agencies to just about everything in the natural world.
What if my religion has the belief that Muhammad is one of the most immoral people who ever lived?
Sheldon,
"Another drive by proselytising from a gibbering brainwashed devotee of a bronze age cult. I know it's Easter and these idiots can't resist a full moon, but fuck me this is really becoming quite tedious now.
"Religion ensures peace"
Is so stupidly and obviously wrong, it's an own goal of gargantuan proportions."
What a cynic!
The idea is expressed on these sites = http://www.reviewofreligions.org/11676/our-paradise-lies-in-our-god/
https://www.alislam.org/library/articles/our-god-a-living-god/
Religion ensures peace.
This one belongs in "1984" alongside "War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.”
Re: Religion ensures peace
Riiiiight..... And repeatedly lifting heavy objects is a great cure for hernias.
@Algebe
Well I am afraid to say: The world today is gradually moving towards instability because We are moving Away from our RELIGIONS, Extremism is getting more and more common because believers are not following their teachings ACCURATELY and the non-believer groups are helping those extremist groups by supplying weapons.
I really feel deeply concerned and disturbed at what is happening in the world of religion today. There is a deep urgency for religions to make a genuine and serious effort to remove misunderstanding between them. I believe that Islam can deliver the goods with distinction in a manner that can fully satisfy our demands and requirements. For instance, I believe that for a religion
to be helpful in establishing peace in the world, it is essential that a religion which is universally capable of uniting man ultimately, must itself accept the universality of religion in the sense that human beings,
whatever their colour, race or geographic denomination, are all creatures of the same Creator. As such, they are equally entitled to receive Divine instruction—if ever Divine instructions were given to any section of human society. This view obviates the concept of monopolisation of truth by any religion.
All religions, whatever their name or doctrines, wherever they be found and to whichever age they belong, have the right to claim the possession of some Divine truth. Also, one has to admit that, despite the differences in their doctrines and teachings, religions are most likely to have a common origin. The same Divine authority, which gave birth to any religion in one area of the world, must also have looked after the religious and spiritual needs of other human beings in other parts of the world and belonging to different ages.
This exactly is the message of the Holy Quran, the Sacred Scripture of Islam The question arises that if there are so many Prophets of God sent to all peoples of the world, in different parts of the world and in different ages, do they have the same Divine authority? According to the Holy Quran, all Prophets belong to God, and as such, insofar as their Divine
authority is concerned, they exercise such authority with equal force and strength. No one has a right to discriminate between one Prophet and another. As far as the authenticity of their message is concerned, all Prophets must be equal. This attitude of Islam towards other religions and their Founders as well as minor Prophets, can work as a very important uniting and cementing factor between various religions. The principle that the authenticity of each Prophet’s revelation enjoys the same status can be used as a very powerful unifying force, bringing various religions together. This transforms the
attitude of hostility towards the revelation of Prophets of other religions to that of respect and reverence. This, again, is the clear and logical position taken by the Holy Quran:
“This Messenger (the Holy Foundersa of Islam) believes in that
which was revealed to him from his Lord, and so do the believers;
all of them believe in Allah; and in His angels, and in His Books,
and in His Messengers saying, ‘We make no distinction between
any of His Messengers.’ And they say, ‘We have heard and we are
obedient. . . .”
This subject is repeated in other verses of the Holy Quran. For instance:
“Surely, those who disbelieve in Allah and His Messengers and
seek to make a distinction between Allah and His Messengers,
and say, ‘We believe in some and disbelieve in others’, and seek to
take a way in between, these really are the disbelievers, and We
have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
And those who believe in Allah and in all of His Messengers and
make no distinction between any of them, to such He will soon
give their rewards. And Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.”
@Believer: The world today is gradually moving towards instability because We are moving Away from our RELIGIONS
Look at the history of religions. Christians and Muslims have been slaughtering each other since the Crusades. Hindus and Muslims have killed each other by the million in India. And when believers can't find another religion to fight, they split into factions and fight among themselves: Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, Sunnis and Shiites in the Middle East.
But maybe that's because all those billions of people are doing religion the wrong way. Please us give an example of a time and place when religion brought peace and harmony.
Extremism is generally caused or at least motivated by religions, and the most stable societies are secular democracies. I must ask is your shift key sticking?
Start by showing at least one piece of objective evidence that any deity exists, or your endless claims are meaningless.
"All religions, whatever their name or doctrines, wherever they be found and to whichever age they belong, have the right to claim the possession of some Divine truth. "
That doesn't stop the claims being nonsense, and the same standards of evidence apply to this verbiage as to all other claims. The Koran and the bible are demonstrably man made, nothing in them evidences anything supernatural, let alone the existence of a deity. The claims in both are not logical, and your claim that they are is vapid nonsense, since again you simply roll out the claim using the word logic in a blatantly dishonest attempt to try and lend some gravitas to your superstitious beliefs.
Believer: "The world today is gradually moving towards instability because We are moving Away from our RELIGIONS"
---------------------------------------------
Nonsense, this is entirely untrue, read Steven Pinker's "The Better Angels of Our Nature: The Decline of Violence In History And Its Causes", it is well written and researched, and thoroughly refutes your absurd claim.
@Believer
"Well I am afraid to say: The world today is gradually moving towards instability because We are moving Away from our RELIGIONS, "
And yet the evidence shows the countries with the LEAST religious diversity have the MOST religious violence.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/04/countries-with...
Attachments
Attach Image/Video?:
Excellent post, and I'd give you extra agrees for the Orwellian reference if I could. You have to marvel at the lack of cognitive dissonance in anyone making such an absurd claim, but Orwellian doublethink sums it up very nicely, well done.
First paragraph of OP is plagiarized.
Agreed, this smells of someone just trying to elicit response. Copy and pasting in stuff, on an atheist board. The avatar I feel likely gives away his/her intent some.
I feel it is likely the poster does not even really believe in what he/she wrote. Even though his/her sign in is "believer."
@Believer
a)Religion "It is distortion that causes problems." (No) It is simple identification with a religion that causes problems. "I am a Muslim, Buddhist, Christian, Jew, etc.... It does not matter." You have taken the human condition and identified it as something it is not. In your belief you create all sorts of distinctions "Us, the believers," and "Them the sinners." Your mind is warped by your ideology. In creating distinctions you create friction. You create condescension, hatred, animosity, and an ideology of superiority to your fellow man. There is nothing in a belief system that leads to Peace. Religion has separated mankind and it has never led to peace. The conversion of every being on the planet to Islam is not a peaceful objective. Forcing non-believers to pay extra taxes is not peaceful/ Forcing the non-believers to identify themselves with bells or yellow stars as the Muslims did in the Golden Age of Islam is not peaceful. You do not separate people and bring about peace. That is not how it is done.
B: "God's apostles." Give me a break. Anyone who believes they have heard the word of god becomes an apostle. That is why we have 38 thousand Christian sects and about 40 major sects of Islam. Everyone wants to follow someone who pretends they know. Next time you meet an apostle ask him to prove the existence of his god without using some lame apologetic that has been around, and completely debunked, for a hundred years.
C. "societies that progressed followed the principles that are taught by religion, " No!
You have it exactly backwards. Societies that progressed did so, and then wrote down their principles for success. Every successful society on the planet has or has had a version of the Golden Rule. Society is formed one step at a time.
Man himself in the wild is little more than a walking hamburger. He does not have the size of an elephant, the strength of a bear, the speed of a cheetah, the teeth of a crocodile, the venom of a snake, the climbing ability of a monkey, or the flight of a bird. What man has is the ability to bond and form communities. From clans, to tribes, to communities, to cities, states, and countries, it is man's beliefs, including his belief in god, that has acted as an evolutionary bonding agent and allowed man to form groups, work together, and protect himself. Shared beliefs are the bonds of tribal man. Beliefs are the glue that allowed us to survive. We are the chosen tribe and they are the evil tribe, our god is stronger than their. Fear of the enemy and elevation of the self. Division and fear are the agents of bond for early man. It is believed that the reason for the demise of the other 6 species of hominoids was specifically due to their lack of ability to bond. Without our ability to play make believe and establish magical rules by a supreme being, we too would have gone the way of extinction.
D: "Belief in God, even before the prophets came, and majority are believers proves God is real." NO
This is a fallacy of logic based on popularity. The fact that millions of people believe in Gods has nothing at all to do with whether or not a god exists. Idiot people used to believe, and many still do, that illness was caused by evil spirits. Those of us with university degrees understand the medical theory of disease and the role of bacteria and virus. We know for a fact the religious of the world are wrong. We also know that there have been millions of gods, prior to your version of god, and all of them have failed. Your God is just one more God in a long line of failed gods. The only difference between you and an atheist is that we go one god further.
RELIGION IS A MADE UP STORY ABOUT A MADE UP WORLD, AND NOTHING MORE.
Maybe it's time that the human united as one and connect through the one thing we all share and that is belief even an atheist has a belief they believe that there is no creator (god). Why can't we agree to disagree and see that are differences are what make us stronger as a race.
" even an atheist has a belief they believe that there is no creator (god). "
No, atheism is not a belief, it is the lack of a single belief. I don't believe a deity or deities exist.
To claim that I 'believe' that I don't believe a deity exists is the kind of stupid mendacious doublethink Breezy keeps posting, with an arrogant flourish as if he has uttered something so profound it's as if he has deciphered the dead sea scrolls.
Atheism
Noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
@Believer
Name just one current major conflict that does not involve religion and I can easily name two. Name two, I can come up with four. Will you accept my challenge?
@David Killens
Well the reality totally different... All the conflicts in the world are to gain power. No one cares about Humanity but RELIGION does care about HUMANITY that is why EVERY religion contains the concept of ACCOUNTABILITY (A life after death... Based on the deeds of this world).
a) Big giants are Helping Extremist groups (who claim to be religious groups-- but in fact they are far away from religion-- they follow their gains not any RELIGION.. ) for power not for their religious sentiments.
b) China’s island-building spree in south China sea have alarmed other countries with interests in the region.This does not involve any religion and it has already began numerous conflicts in the region.
c)I am afraid Americas conflicts with north Korea does not involve any religious interests but it is a game for power.
.... the List Goes on....
Now @David Killens You tell me what atheist group have done to insure peace in the world... ? I have plenty of Examples of religious groups trying to establish peace in the world....//
Wow, you named a whole 2 conflicts. There were eleven Crusades, one involving children. Socrates was killed for being a heretic. The Middle East exists. The Ku Klux Klan are a religious organization. Most of the Native Americans were massacred by missionaries spreading Catholicism to the new world. A whole dynasty was destroyed in Ancient Egypt for trying to codify monotheism into their laws. Oh, and did I mention the Salem witch trials?
Ensure peace, not insure (sic) peace, and what atheist groups are you referring to? There are secular charities and organisations that work tirelessly to improve the lot of people all over the world, and reduce suffering. It's a lie that religions tout that atheists are less altruistic and or less moral than theists. Though this is irrelevant to your claim of course.
WWI was fought primarily between christian countries, Nazis Germany was overwhelmingly christian, and we know what happened to other religious demographics under Nazism. The SS were exclusively christian, you could not be considered for admission unless you were a theist. Then there is the crusades, and the inquisition of course, then there was the thirty year war of course, and on and on throughout history, genocides caused or conducted by religions or the religious would include The Holocaust, Rwander, Bosnia Croatia, Bangladesh, and that's before we consider biblical genocides.
Religion ensures peace in the same way alcohol ensures sobriety.
Atheists are not represented by any set of beliefs other than a lack of belief in the existence of god/s. It is meaningless to ask what have atheist groups done to ensure peace.
However, secular institutions have ensured that we are living in the most peaceful and prosperous time in history.
"I have plenty of Examples of religious groups trying to establish peace in the world"
you sound very familiar, ...hhhhmmm..
do you guys recall who's line is this?
hahahah....
b) South China Sea
My two responses. Afghanistan. Pakistan.
c) North Korea
My two responses. Somalia. Tunisia.
Next?
edit: to correct a typo
"..one thing we all share and that is belief even an atheist has a belief they believe that there is no creator (god)."
Myckob is correct that atheism is not a belief. 'Atheist' is a label religionists give to those who do not believe in their god(s).
Superstition and religious tribalism are harmful. What unites us is what facilitates peaceful coexistence, specifically: secular principles such as One-Law-For-All; Separation of Church and State; Freedom of AND FROM religion; Political democracy through established institutions, checks and balances and protection for minorities; freedom of speech and expression; inclusiveness; equal rights for women and LGBTQs... in fact all the things that unite us is the opposite of what religion offers, which is superstition, clerics, theology (i.e. mythology) and creed.
Science gives us evolution and antibiotics. Religion can lead to Creationism and prayer.
We cannot share our 'diversities'. We could share acceptance of secularism and rejection of superstition. It is also important to demote religious tribal loyalties, for examples: putting One-Law-For-All above religious courts and human rights above the right of a parent to mutilate a child's genitals.
You said, "I convey this good news to the whole world that the God of Islam is such a Living God."
From The Noble Quran [60:4], "Verily, we [Muslims] are free from you [non-Muslims] and whatever you worship besides Allah, we have rejected you, and there has started between us and you, hostility and hatred for ever, until you believe in Allah Alone."
This doesn't sound like peace to me.
Pages