Science of self realisation

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Gordan Šojat's picture
Science of self realisation

Though as a people we have a different viewpoints...on one we can all agree....if you can scientifically prof what you are saying than I will belive. Othervise what is a difference between christian, muslim, hindu or atheist faith?♡

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Gordan Šojat's picture
For all you beautiful souls

For all you beautiful souls out there, I'm not here to push my ideas on yo,u rather I'm here so we can push ourselves together toward the ultimate realisation of the most wonderful experiences that we can get here in this earthly realm. Please see me as your assistance and that's all.
Peace and love too you all♡:-D

CyberLN's picture
Atheism isn't a faith.

Atheism isn't a faith.

Atheist School Girl's picture
That's the great thing about

That's the great thing about science- there is no end. And while it would be great if we could go back in time to the beginning of the universe, we can't. Because we will never see that occur, there is no such thing as "proof" (in the colloquial sense) for any argument. In terms of the scientific definition of proof, we have already proved evolution. To quote Sean Carroll:

I would say that "proof" is the most widely misunderstood concept in all of science. It has a technical definition (a logical demonstration that certain conclusions follow from certain assumptions) that is strongly at odds with how it is used in casual conversation, which is closer to simply "strong evidence for something." There is a mismatch between how scientists talk and what people hear because scientists tend to have the stronger definition in mind. And by that definition, science never proves anything! So when we are asked "What is your proof that we evolved from other species?" or "Can you really prove that climate change is caused by human activity?" we tend to hem and haw rather than simply saying "Of course we can." The fact that science never really proves anything, but simply creates more and more reliable and comprehensive theories of the world that nevertheless are always subject to update and improvement, is one of the key aspects of why science is so successful."

PS. CyberLN is right- atheism isn't a faith and if you call it one, most atheists will laugh and/or be very offended. Faith implies a religion, with traditions and, generally, deities. The only thing that atheists have in common is the lack of all of that. Some comparisons I've heard that might help get the concept across:

- Atheism is a religion like "off" is a TV channel.
- Atheism is a religion like "bald" is a hair color.
- Atheism is a religion like "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

We act as a community because we're marginalized and often want to join together with people who think like we do when the rest of the world says we're not right and, more than that, innately bad people. But, similar things could be said for various other groups in the US, like political parties, some unions, fraternities, clubs, and activist groups, all of which are not religious but share ideologies.

SammyShazaam's picture
Excellent illustration! I've

Excellent illustration! I've been so frustrated trying to explain this to people, but for some reason what I say just isn't getting through... I'm going to cop your TV channel analogy, perhaps that will strike a chord.

Gordan Šojat's picture
Atheism is also some kind of

Atheism is also some kind of belief sistem, right? I mean you cannot say it's a science.....

CyberLN's picture
IMO, it is not, indeed, a

IMO, it is not, indeed, a belief system. It is the antithesis of belief. The common definition of the word 'belief' is the acceptance of something as true without evidence. I've arrived at the conclusion that the likelihood of a deity is next door to nil because there is no evidence for that existence. I arrived at that conclusion using critical thought.

Atheism is not a science. But many folks use science to arrive at it. There is no verifiable scientific evidence for the existence of god(s) and there is scientific evidence that the creation of the notion of god(s) is a product of the brain via an evolutionary adaptation.

Gordan Šojat's picture
What IMO means?

What IMO means?

Jacob Johansen's picture
In my opinion?

In my opinion?

Gordan Šojat's picture
Thanks.

Thanks.

CyberLN's picture
Yes

Yes

freethinker's picture
No Gordon...Atheism is the

No Gordon...Atheism is the opposite of a belief system....we are non believers....Science gives us the facts we need to understand life and our environment....Religion only tells us what was happening in biblical times and does not take into consideration what has happened in all the days since.....Can you imagine what the writers of the Bible would think of space travel and landing on the moon.....Just think about it......

Gordan Šojat's picture
I'm not a Christian. My

I'm not a Christian. My religion is a science, science beyond everybody's wildest dreams....

CyberLN's picture
How is your religion a

How is your religion a science? Does it use the scientific method for testing it's tenets?

Gordan Šojat's picture
Yes it uses the scientific

Yes it uses the scientific method for testing it's tenets.

CyberLN's picture
What is it called?

What is it called?

Gordan Šojat's picture
Vaisnavism.

Vaisnavism.

CyberLN's picture
Will you provide examples of

Will you provide examples of how the scientific method is used to test / prove the tenets of this religion's tenets?

Gordan Šojat's picture
I guess it would be better

I guess it would be better that you ask specific questions.

CyberLN's picture
That was specific. You

That was specific. You stated that your religion uses the scientific method to test / prove its tenets. I asked for an example of that.

Gordan Šojat's picture
Ok....there are two kind of

Ok....there are two kind of sciences, one is called exact and one experimental, right?

CyberLN's picture
Please just provision the

Please just provision the examples as requested. You made an assertion. Back it up.

Gordan Šojat's picture
Please be patient, I'm coming

Please be patient, I'm coming to that...please just answer the question if you like. First we must be clear on the what science today actually is..

SammyShazaam's picture
Define in your own words the

Define in your own words the difference between exact and experimental science. Because no, there should not really be a difference, methodologically.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
I think it is a very common

I think it is a very common misconception that atheism means "the belief that there is no god" when that is really anti-theism. Atheism simply means "the lack of belief in a deity." It is no more of a "faith" than the lack of belief in anything else that doesn't exist. I do not have a separate faith for every mythical creature I don't believe in. Then I would be part of the faith of aunicornism, aleprachuanism, afairyism. It doesn't work that way. Besides that, faith is the believe in something without seeing it or having to have evidence for it. Atheism is the lack of belief in something because of a lack of evidence in it. The entire reason we are atheists is because we lack faith.

Gordan Šojat's picture
You say that atheism is based

You say that atheism is based on the proof that there is no God, otherwise it's like any other faith, is that correct?

ex-christian_atheist's picture
No, atheism is not based on

No, atheism is not based on the proof of anything. I believe you are mistaking it for anti-theism. Anti-theism is the belief that there is no God and that the Universe originated through natural means. I believe there is no proof for that claim either. Atheism is simply the lack of faith in a deity. There is no plainer way to explain this. Atheism is the default position. You don't believe in proof for one version or another. When somebody comes along and says God did it, we see no evidence and continue to not believe we know where the universe came from. I know as a theist it is easy to believe that in the beginning Adam and Eve were the only people and ever since them people believed in God. So your view of atheism is that somebody made up their own explanation and formed a new faith. This isn't how atheists see it.

We don't believe Adam and Eve were the first humans. We believe humans have been around for a long time, and for many years probably weren't even intelligent enough to postulate a creator God. Earlier people than Jews worshiped animals and celestial bodies before they ever came up with the concept of a supernatural, omnipresent, omniscient, monotheistic God. This was not the default belief. It originated just he same as any other belief in a deity did.

Gordan Šojat's picture
If you say that you have a

If you say that you have a lack of faith in the deity....than you have faith in something else right? I mean, word faith is traditionally connected with religion but is a much broader term actually. E.g.You can invest your faith in different things....your president of the country, elevator etc.
You can say that a having a faith per se is a part of our intrinsic nature isn't it? Words and there's various meanings are so interesting, aren't they?

Gordan Šojat's picture
Thank you all for answering

Thank you all for answering my questions. I fell more enriched, grateful and blessed:-D

Travis Paskiewicz's picture
I think the word "Faith" and

I think the word "Faith" and "Beleive" have been dominated by spiritualism. You see, according to the definition of "Faith" is to put merit or trust in a claim to be true, just as "Believe" is to accept or regard something as truthful. Howeve, both terms have sorta been high-jacked by religious spiritual movements, where people both have "faith" or "believe" in a spiritual doctrine or diety, it's power, divinity, ect... Usually comes about through some spiritual, ritualistic, or otherwise religious occurences.

However, when an atheist uses the phrase "I believe.." it's not a spiritual belief. It's that through what we learn from the sciences. It's what we learn through our day to day experiences with the world. It's actually very mundane, fact driven, testable, repeatable processes that make sense according to the vast inter-relatedness of all we know about our world and universe, and how it operates without fail. I think you will find that yes, atheists do have beleifs, or ideas we give merit to based on fact and observation, but it's not like your beliefs at all. There's much less miracles, ghosts, jewish zombies, men who get stronger as their hair grows, Arabs riding a donkey into the sky, talking to to any god, angels smiting cities, demons, armegeddon, retribution, reincarnation, sin, talking snakes, giants, trolls, gods,... I could go on but, the list of what we don't have in our belief structure would be outrageous. Here's what we do believe in: How people think (psychology) and how people interact (Sociology) and how the world universe acts (Various Sciences).

Gordan Šojat's picture
I like how you say that this

I like how you say that this terms faith & believe was sorta high-jacked by religions (ha ha ha). Or maybe they are injected:-) into them.
I mean, let's put this faith thing to the end....everybody have some kind of faith in something, right?
Wait a bit:-) You don't know what I know or what I belive:-)
I will shock you a little bit, Here is what I belive: How people think (psychology) and how people interact (Sociology) and how the world universe acts (Various Sciences), and some lil' things beyond, but all founded on Vedas.

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