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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Endri-
I am an apostate and no one would fear retribution against me for my views more than I.
I live in a state of constant fear just because of my beliefs or lack of it and society's beliefs.
1. To muslims from my community where I stay closeted, I am not religious enough.
2. To Fundamentalist Hindus in India, I am a muslim, they may beat me or kill me for suspicion of having beef.
3. Where I do expose my atheistic beliefs - I am just a muslim pretending to be an atheist
4. In the western world, I am brown skinned, Desi, pack, muslim, terrorist.
Now the strange thing here is I do not harbour a victim complex. despite these fears of mine I live a very comfortable life in Secular India (this is not sarcasm, I genuinely believe it) where I am afforded opportunity to thrive.
Try to empathise with the plight of the refugees thrust out of their lands for not being muslim enough to stay there nor western enough to enter Europe.
In your rant you pointed out; "they want to "assimilate" them when they're clearly not assimilating, they want to make them part of the European society when they are clearly making the European society part of theirs. They lack Ideals, true, pure Western Ideals and are clearly imposing theirs on the native population! ......they are all ignorant, arrogant and their fundamentalism only makes it worse, they aren't behaving well, they're causing chaos and disruption."
Somehow your Secularism seems to be in doubt from your rant. It seems you want to impose your beliefs or lack of it on them. They are practising muslims, you cannot expect them to become atheists just because they immigrated to atheist Europe.
Assimilating populations takes generations. It does not happen in a day or two. That obviously does not mean that you accept sharia nor that you change your laws to placate them, but joining an ultra nationalist movement would help how ? you think holding a gun to their head and threatening them with violence will make them assimilate faster?
You keep mentioning that the liberal muslims aren't liberal enough. what do you expect them to do or say. Do you expect them to behave atheistic ? thats as absurd as you expecting an evangelical born again christian being atheistic.
What do you expect these moderate muslims to do ? Do you expect them to come out and fight against radical islam then check they are doing that. Do you expect them to speak out against terrorists and terrorist attacks, then check check that is happening as well. Someone just posted an ad trending in ramadan that has an anti terrorist anti fundamentalist message.
As for me, an outsider looking in into your politics I used to see Europe as a safe Haven where irreligion dominated and propagated secular ideals. But after your rant coupled with ultra nationalist movements cropping up in Europe it seems that your fight against these refugees or immigrants is not based on religious intolerance. there are plenty of born Europeans who are muslim, not just the refugees. Your opposition and alliance with ultra nationalists seems to stem from Racism.
Honestly I don't care but just so you know your rant gave me a distaste for Europe much in the same way that I detest Saudi. They mistreat and oppress anyone who is not of their belief and Ideology and are blatantly Racist.
I apologise if you you do not like my assessment of your views, but harsh as it sounds it is an outsiders opinion. My wife an I were planning to move to the west but she is hesitant as she fears being a victim of racism. That is the truth of the image you present (I am implying Australia and Europe). America used to be more accepting but who knows now with a president like Trump.
First of all, sure, it takes time to integrate in a society and follow it's Ideals, but we don't have that time, and the mentality of those particular Muslims isn't requesting to integrate - Look at this Imam here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3240295/Imam-tells-Muslim-migran...
Second of all, I'm not part of a nationalistic movement, because again, and again I have to state something that you didn't read, I'm not a Ultra-nationalist willing to kill Muslims or deport them by forceful means.
"Somehow your Secularism seems to be in doubt from your rant. It seems you want to impose your beliefs or lack of it on them. They are practicing Muslims, you cannot expect them to become atheists just because they immigrated to atheist Europe." - Since when is this about Atheism? Where do I state that I want Atheism implemented in them, their Religion needs Reform and more Liberal implementations, and that's not called forcing them our Ideals, it's called making their Ideology compatible with this Age!
"Honestly I don't care but just so you know your rant gave me a distaste for Europe much in the same way that I detest Saudi. They mistreat and oppress anyone who is not of their belief and Ideology and are blatantly Racist." - Well, to your information, Islam is not a Race and since when did we start Oppressing and Mistreating others? Honestly, you're comparing the wrong Subcontinent with a Country.
"You keep mentioning that the liberal Muslims aren't liberal enough. what do you expect them to do or say. Do you expect them to behave atheistic ? that's as absurd as you expecting an evangelical born again christian being atheistic." - Again, wrong interpretation of my words. You're also confusing Moderate Muslims from Liberal, and I suppose you know that Moderate is not the same as Liberal. Then again, Moderate Muslims aren't taking active part against Islamic Terrorism, it's basically not trying to include itself with it, which is fine, but again it's still their religion and their responsibility to make people (Western) Conscious about their Actions and their Justifiability. But as they say: "a Radical Muslim wants to cut off your head; while a Moderate Muslim wants to hold your head while a Radical one cuts it." - Which shows the lack of initiation Muslims have Worldwide against generalization. I'm OK, with fair, Western-Idealized Muslims (be it Liberal, Moderate, Progressive, etc) that respect native societies and adhere to their traditions, but the rest of those Radicals and Fundamentalists, no.
Last of all, you can call me Racist whenever you want, but that's not true, because I never have a extreme hate towards a race, it's the false interpretation in your mind that condemns me as a individual that way. My entire Post here, has nothing to do with Race, it's all Politics, and you didn't read thoroughly enough to actually think that the quoted statements on the above were actually my thoughts and my representation of this international crisis. And you don't need to apologize for your statements, because I won't apologize for mine.
Endri- " Then again, Moderate Muslims aren't taking active part against Islamic Terrorism, it's basically not trying to include itself with it, which is fine, but again it's still their religion and their responsibility to make people (Western) Conscious about their Actions and their Justifiability. But as they say: "a Radical Muslim wants to cut off your head; while a Moderate Muslim wants to hold your head while a Radical one cuts it." - Which shows the lack of initiation Muslims have Worldwide against generalisation."
Endure you still haven't answered my question. Enlighten us as to what would you have these people (Moderate muslims) do ?
What would I have these people do? Maybe create peaceful gatherings where they can talk to other non-Muslims and Irreligious people. Maybe start talking about why Shariah Law can't be allowed in Western countries. Maybe start to convince other Muslims that they must adhere to the native society's traditions instead of their previous ones. Maybe start taking a initiative to ban Shariah Law from even being a Pro or Against choice. Maybe start a Worldwide Peace movement. Maybe set a goal to Reform the entirety of the Koran.
There are tons of ways, and there are people (Moderated, Secularized Muslims) who are doing these, but they are so few to even be but on camera and yet again, so contradictory to their Koran that few are willing to actually join.
And yet again, it's not what I should have these Moderate Muslims do, it's what Moderate Muslims should have those Muslim Moderates do. Their change must come from within, not from without, if they don't acknowledge the importance of a progressive Islam then they have no hopes to begin with.
1. Peaceful gatherings to talk to muslims and non muslims..... check
2. public statements to follow the native law of the land...... check
3. adopt native traditions instead of their own.... are you recommending they not follow their own traditions and become the same as you ?
4. Reform entirety of Koran..... clearly man you aren't taking this seriously.... you want them to stop believing in their book over night. Would it be possible to expect that from any other religion. You are being as inflexible as any other religious person.
Its sad when you have an atheist behaving like a theist...
"3. adopt native traditions instead of their own.... are you recommending they not follow their own traditions and become the same as you ?" - No, I don't believe you "get it" when I said adhere to the native society's traditions as a part of forgetting their own, I said ADOPTING them, and where did I say "adopt then native society's traditions and discard their own?" - When I say, "adopt the native society's traditions instead of their previous ones", It's actually quite a clear answer regarding eastern Traditions blending with European ones. Because it seems you really don't know the big difference between them, as Europeans tend to be more Liberal in regard of a Social life by the majority, but the Eastern (Middle Eastern) Traditions are very closely tied to the Koran. You seem to deliberately demonizing me and victimizing yourself.
"4. Reform entirety of Koran..... clearly man you aren't taking this seriously.... you want them to stop believing in their book over night. Would it be possible to expect that from any other religion." - First of all, again, a stupendous answer from you. REFORMING the Koran doesn't mean to just stop believing in their Book over night, reforming the Koran means to lighten it's fundamentalist mentality of forcefully keeping it's believer in their faith. Christianity reformed itself throughout the Ages, and it still survived and it still remains at least compatible with this Era. While the Koran, remaining unchanged in ages, contains more than 172 verses preaching about the death of non-believers, apostates, homosexuals etc. Also degrading women.
ISIS didn't come from nowhere, it came from the Koran, if the Bible had the same level of death-advocating verse as the Koran, you'd see the same.
"You are being as inflexible as any other religious person.
Its sad when you have an atheist behaving like a theist..." - You don't know me at all, yet you presume things that you clearly have no knowledge of, maybe you should start fighting back with some valid info instead of indirectly offending me.
"3. adopt native traditions instead of their own.... are you recommending they not follow their own traditions and become the same as you ?" - No, I don't believe you "get it" when I said adhere to the native society's traditions as a part of forgetting their own, I said ADOPTING them, and where did I say "adopt then native society's traditions and discard their own?" - When I say, "adopt the native society's traditions instead of their previous ones", It's actually quite a clear answer regarding eastern Traditions blending with European ones. Because it seems you really don't know the big difference between them, as Europeans tend to be more Liberal in regard of a Social life by the majority, but the Eastern (Middle Eastern) Traditions are very closely tied to the Koran. You seem to deliberately demonizing me and victimizing yourself.
"4. Reform entirety of Koran..... clearly man you aren't taking this seriously.... you want them to stop believing in their book over night. Would it be possible to expect that from any other religion." - First of all, again, a stupendous answer from you. REFORMING the Koran doesn't mean to just stop believing in their Book over night, reforming the Koran means to lighten it's fundamentalist mentality of forcefully keeping it's believer in their faith. Christianity reformed itself throughout the Ages, and it still survived and it still remains at least compatible with this Era. While the Koran, remaining unchanged in ages, contains more than 172 verses preaching about the death of non-believers, apostates, homosexuals etc. Also degrading women.
ISIS didn't come from nowhere, it came from the Koran, if the Bible had the same level of death-advocating verse as the Koran, you'd see the same.
"You are being as inflexible as any other religious person.
Its sad when you have an atheist behaving like a theist..." - You don't know me at all, yet you presume things that you clearly have no knowledge of, maybe you should start fighting back with some valid info instead of indirectly offending me.
Just saying, sometimes you have to know and understand history, read and comprehend the literature. Sometimes conspiracy theories are real. Even if you don't believe it that doesn't mean that other people don't and aren't acting on making it a reality. One day you could wake up and wonder what happened. There's a whole cast of characters from around the world, each with their own agenda. It's doubtful if any of those agendas are in line with yours. Think about how the worst-case scenarios could affect you.
I know History well enough on my own, and yes sometimes conspiracy theories are real. But the rest, I really don't understand where you're going with your opinion.
I was hoping that people would read between the lines and recall the doctrines of the ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish and Arabian religious fairy tales, Babylonian Talmud, world history, and recent events.
Endri, watch this, start paying particular attention at 1:20:45.
https://youtu.be/m3MRE1mULVs
I did pay a particular attention, a particular attention to careless thoughts for the possible future.
Oh, you disagree? We shall see about that in the near future.
I'm european ¬¬)-♫
Leaving aside that you're a racist, that's irrelevant, more, I don't give a shit about, there's no country in Europe where the Shariah is being implemented and, of course, there's no European country where it can be applied in the future -It doesn't apply even in Turkey, because it's a fucking secular country...-. Oh, and you don't deceive anyone, you haven't to join any extreme right-wing racist movement, this writing is sufficiently ignorant to call it.
What's the theory of imbecile and ignorant new-born racists? Immigrants invade Europe! Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
It isn't new. UKIP won the Brexit with that shit, Le Penn was close and the president of Hungary sells it as something totally true while letting the refugees in the inclement weather: "Europeans, the EU is an open street of immigrants, if we leave Europe we'll end the invasion".
To close the topic I would like to make a statistical clarification:
In the year 2015, 229,200 illegal immigrants entered Europe according to the International Organization for Migration (If you don't agree, fight with them https://www.iom.int http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2015/04/18/actualidad/1429...). Two thirds of 229,200, 152,800, came from Ukraine, India, Pakistan, China, other Asian and South American countries; Only 76,400 came from Africa. Almost half were sub-Saharans -Nigeria, Cameroon, Liberia, Sierra Leone-, the other half were Saharan, Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, an estimated one third were Muslims.
Does anyone know how to divide 13,000, more, or less, among the 28 countries in the EU?
Well, once the statistics are out, Does anyone know how many legal immigrants enter Europe every year? The annual average since 2004 is one million and a half people with contracts, or student visas that rotate, or vary minimally.
What are you selling us?
P.S.
Can you tell what's your problem? We suffered a civil war in Spain, I have family in France, Sweden and the United Kingdom whose parents and grandparents fled from that war and the refugee status was made in 1951 to protect European refugees.
Really, What's your problem? Haven't you a minimum of shame?
"Leaving aside that you're a racist, that's irrelevant, more, I don't give a shit about, there's no country in Europe where the Shariah is being implemented and, of course, there's no European country where it can be applied in the future -It doesn't apply even in Turkey, because it's a fucking secular country...-. Oh, and you don't deceive anyone, you haven't to join any extreme right-wing racist movement, this writing is sufficiently ignorant to call it." - This clearly shows that you just scrolled through the title and said what just went up on your mind. And if you're willing to discuss it this way, you might as well talk to the wall. Say what you will Montero, say what you will.
Turkey is not a European country, and as much secular as it is, it's President isn't.
UK neither is EU, and the Turkey President isn't secular... like your Queen, @Endri, like your Queen.
P.S.
And of course I'm going to say what I will, If don't like it you'll always have Russia, China, North Korea, Iran... a meeting of UKIP?
Did you just presume I was British?
Only if a country is stupid enough to allow a religious law such as sharia to replace existing secular laws
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