should atheists have a solidarity with believers of satanism

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Davejudge's picture
It is the ultimate

It is the ultimate contradiction to align ourselves with any belief system or doctrine that firstly believes that there is a higher power or a deity that influences our lives.
I am not infected with these rackets. So to infer that we should align ourselves with a belief system that just annoys theists is just plain asinine.
the whole point in calling yourself a atheist is to totally refute the infection that is religion.
Don't infect yourself fellow athiests

xenoview's picture
Necromancy at work!

Necromancy at work!

Ji's picture
I don't really care what

I don't really care what belief or religion a people belong to. In my opinion, solidarity with any religious sect wouldn't be good to any community. I believe that we should practice equity and help anyone being oppress. I don't freaking care if one belief is the direct opposite of another, but no one have the right to persecute anyone.

faith in God follower's picture
its up to the atheist to

its up to the atheist to accept Satanism, but that is another form of worship isn`t it? they have left the worship of god and gods but why to follow Satanism.I don`t know to much about Satanism but what I do know is that a person shouldn`t dabble in it.What I hear is there is all kinds of sex involved with multiple partners and drinking blood and the black mass and the satanic bible. This isn`t for me,

HK's picture
The vast majority of

The vast majority of Satanists are athiests. We approach it as a romantic allegory to define the virtues we live by.... To challenge arbitrary authority, question convention and live as sovereign, independant beings. There are currently groups who are seeking to have it included as a religious preference to gain the same social privilege granted by the US constitution as those who subscribe to a belief in the supernatural. Some of you should stop and consider that the common perception about what Satanism is comes from the same people who try to sell you on stories of rib-women and talking snakes as fact.

Casper's picture
This doesn't make sense to me

This doesn't make sense to me. Their beliefs are really no different than anyone else with a supernatural origin. Lots of groups get demonized at the expense of others. That in an of itself isn't a reason to align with them.

California Girl's picture
"So my question or challenge

"So my question or challenge to you is what should we as atheists do in this case should we just watch the demonization of one and the promotion of the other or take a step?"

As atheists, I don't think we should endorse or support/align with any religion. However, I do think we should stand up for and support the right for freedom of religion/belief.

Jeff's picture
I don't really understand

I don't really understand this question. All Satanists are already atheists. There is no such thing as a Satan worshiper; only Christians believe that Satan is a real person. Satanists do not believe in, and most in my experience don't care about the existence of, any deity. There is no such thing as a theistic Satanist; these are only said to exist by other theists (usually Christians and Wiccans) in order to harm Satanists.

Just ask yourself: Have you ever seen a tome written by a theistic Satanist describing their religious beliefs, practices, rituals, etc? I haven't. All of the books I've read that were written by Satanists were each by atheistic Satanists (such as Anton LaVey, Peter Gilmore, Blanche Barton, etc).

Sheldon's picture
That seems a little

That seems a little contradictory to me, if as you say "only Christians believe that Satan is a real person.", then how does the claim that "All Satanists are already atheists" make sense? You cannot be both a Christian and an Atheist? Also if as you claim "Satanists do not believe in, and most in my experience don't care about the existence of, any deity" then how can you also say "only Christians believe that Satan is a real person."?

Then you say "There is no such thing as a theistic Satanist;" after you have claimed only Christians believe Satan is real? Are Christians not theists then? This is news to me I have to be honest. Since Satan is part of Christian dogma it's hard for me to see how anyone can believe Satan is real, and still claim to be an atheist, but then the appeal of maintaining bronze age superstitious beliefs in the 21st century escapes anyway.

CyberLN's picture
Sheldon, perhaps you’re not

Sheldon, perhaps you’re not familiar with this:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/index.php

Sheldon's picture
I saw the name mentioned in

I saw the name mentioned in the post I'd responded to of course, but no they're not a group whose beliefs I am au fait with. I have no problem accepting the idea that there are people out there who use the label, but don't believe Satan exists in any real sense. It was just that the claim "only Christians believe Satan is real" seemed incongruous with the claim all Satanists are atheists.

Here's an excerpt..."organization in history openly dedicated to the acceptance of Man’s true nature—that of a carnal beast, living in a cosmos that is indifferent to our existence. To us, Satan is the symbol that best suits the nature of we who are carnal by birth—people who feel no battles raging between our thoughts and feelings, we who do not embrace the concept of a soul imprisoned in a body. He represents pride, liberty, and individualism—qualities often defined as Evil by those who worship external deities, who feel there is a war between their minds and emotions."

Not as 'out there' as the label first suggests to be honest. The quote goes on..."As Anton LaVey explained in his classic work The Satanic Bible, Man—using his brain—invented all the Gods, doing so because many of our species cannot accept or control their personal egos, feeling compelled to conjure up one or a multiplicity of characters who can act without hindrance or guilt upon whims and desires. All Gods are thus externalized forms, magnified projections of the true nature of their creators, personifying aspects of the universe or personal temperaments which many of their followers find to be troubling. Worshipping any God is thus worshipping by proxy those who invented that God. Since the Satanist understands that all Gods are fiction, instead of bending a knee in worship to—or seeking friendship or unity with—such mythical entities, he places himself at the center of his own subjective universe as his own highest value.

We Satanists are thus our own “Gods,” and as beneficent “deities” we can offer love to those who deserve it and deliver our wrath (within reasonable limits) upon those who seek to cause us—or that which we cherish—harm. Magus Gilmore’s essay “What, The Devil?” from The Satanic Scriptures discusses this in greater detail."

Some of the claims seem innocuous enough, but it all seems a little too theatrical for me to take seriously, still if they harm non one and don't demand others conform or try to proselytise it seems relatively harmless. I don't believe in anything supernatural as no one can demonstrate appropriate evidence, and I can get along without a fictional devil as well.

CyberLN's picture
It was merely an FYI :)

It was merely an FYI :)

Nyarlathotep's picture
Satanism is a wide tent.

Satanism is a wide tent. There are satanists who believe in a supernatural creature commonly known as the devil/satan; but at least in my experience those are the rare ones. The "common" ones don't believe that.

Bezzier's picture
Excuse me, but focusing so

Excuse me, but focusing so much on the definition of Satanism, and whether it is a religion begs the question, which was: should an atheist who sees Satanists being dehumanised and stripped of their right to worship stand in solidarity to oppose the infringement on their rights?

There are two paradigms to answer this one from; the moral frame, and the strategic frame.

Strategically, yes, of course. You should stand up when you see a minority religious person being persecuted by someone from the majority religion. The ability to act freely in the public square as an atheist requires freedom of religion. You should take any step you can to promote freedom of religion.

Morally, this is where a lot of atheists get uncomfortable. Despite the evidence and arguments that one can be a moral absolutist without invoking anything supernatural, a lot of atheists aren't comfortable with absolutism. Personally, I can't stand moral relativism, so I'm not even going to dignify that view with an attempt to explain the reaction to this one.

From an absolutists standpoint, you have two possibilities. Do you think persecution of people for their being of a different belief system than the majority is wrong? If no, then by all means, stand aside and let the satanist be pummelled. I doubt many people actually believe this.

I personally have the opposite opinion. Of course it's wrong, I think. So I am happy to stand up for the Satanist, or the Christian, or the Muslim, or the Jew, or the Sikh, or the Pagan, or the Zoroastrian; whoever it is being denied their rights (so long as those rights are equally co patible with the same degree of rights for others).

Jerry b's picture
A myth is a myth. They are

A myth is a myth. They are all equally valueless. Atheism is a myth free position. If you can’t prove it, it probably doesn’t exist, or certainly, there is no reason to organize your life around it.

Sapporo's picture
We should have solidarity

We should have solidarity with anyone who wishes to have freedom of belief, but that doesn't stop me from thinking that "satanism" is a bit stupid and odious. (I do not say that from a religious perspective btw).

MysticCrusader's picture
Don't forget "Satanism" is an

Don't forget "Satanism" is an "uncompromisingly selfish religion". You will never get true mutual support from a Satanist.

You have to dissociate from them.

sol·i·dar·i·ty
ˌsäləˈderədē/
noun
noun: solidarity; singular proper noun: Solidarity; noun: Solidarity

1.
unity or agreement of feeling or action, especially among individuals with a common interest; mutual support within a group.
"factory workers voiced solidarity with the striking students"
synonyms: unanimity, unity, like-mindedness, agreement, accord, harmony, consensus, concurrence, cooperation, cohesion, fraternity, mutual support; formalconcord
"our solidarity is what gives us the credibility and power to make changes"
2.
an independent trade union movement in Poland that developed into a mass campaign for political change and inspired popular opposition to communist regimes across eastern Europe during the 1980s.

David Killens's picture
"should atheists have a

"should atheists have a solidarity with believers of satanism"

For the same reasons I do not feel any need to identify with or have any solidarity for any other superstitious cult such as Bábism, Sadh, Zoroastrianism, Ko-Shintō, Kumina, Olmec, Bumba, Anishinaabe, Atenism, Glycon, or Ár nDraíocht Féin.

Falllinemaniac's picture
Satanism is not what people

Satanism is not what people think it is. It's merely the acknowledgement of death ultimately overcoming life, recognized as the dark force of nature Satan is entirely allegorical. It is not belief nor worship as much as a philosophy that encourages discussion.
Therefore I associate Satanists with atheists by definition and outlook.

Sheldon's picture
Not me, I am an atheist but

Not me, I am an atheist but my acceptance of the facts of death and there being no objective evidence we survive that in any meaningful way doesn't require any label, let alone Satanism which carries too much baggage as far I am concerned. I'm not a Satanist, nor do I identify with Satanists or Satanism, I am an atheist, sometimes an agnostic where epistemology requires it, a humanist, a secularist, a socialist, and a republican, the kind that wants the UK to become a republic and remove the monarchy, not the American right wing kind. I'm sometimes called a liberal, and have no real problem with that, though it's usually meant as a pejorative, and is not how I would describe myself.

Sushisnake's picture
The Satanic Temple put their

The Satanic Temple put their money where their mouth is when it comes to keeping church/state separate:

https://www.google.com.au/search?client=tablet-android-samsung&ei=0iwGW-...

I suspect they went with the satanist label for the same reason a political party with very sensible policies here in Oz called themselves the Sex Party- it makes people and the press sit up and take notice.

And I like their silly Christmas displays- especially this one. Still makes me laugh that a Christian vandalised it because she thought it was blasphemous:

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Tin-Man's picture
Hey, people can say what they

Hey, people can say what they want about Satanists, but at least they have a wicked sense of humor. Gotta love that. *grin*

Glacier's picture
If we define satanism as evil

If we define satanism as evil worship or something like that, then in that respect many atheists have formed an elegance with Satan (because the enemy of my enemy is my friend):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo-1c9OPSvY&list=PLt3Pke412qVcfj9kaaKvyE...
https://www.amazon.ca/Unholy-Alliance-Radical-Islam-American/dp/0895260263

Nyarlathotep's picture
Glacier - If we define

Glacier - If we define satanism as evil worship...

If you define it as people who like donuts; then I'm a satanist! Of course neither your version or mine is what this thread is/was about.

Glacier's picture
Satan is thought of as pure

Satan is thought of as pure evil, so to worship Satan is to worship evil.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Glacier - Satan is thought of

Glacier - Satan is thought of as pure evil, so to worship Satan is to worship evil.

Did you not read the thread? LaVeyan Satanists don't worship Satan, they don't believe Satan is real.

The name is a misnomer; probably chosen to get extreme reactions (troll) out of people who believe in the supernatural.

Glacier's picture
I see. I did not read much of

I see. I did not read much of the thread. I guess it's like the "Satanic Bible" in that it's satirical?

Nyarlathotep's picture
basically yeah.

basically yeah.

NikolaisMom's picture
I am seriously disappointed

I am seriously disappointed in your lack of grammar and punctuation skills. If you are going to write something that you want taken seriously, maybe try writing it like an adult who gives a damn. Its truly embarrassing for all of us to be represented like this.

Sheldon's picture
"I am seriously disappointed

"I am seriously disappointed in your lack of grammar and punctuation skills. If you are going to write something that you want taken seriously, maybe try writing it like an adult who gives a damn. Its truly embarrassing for all of us to be represented like this."

There should be a comma in that first sentence before the word and, and the abbreviation of it is at the start of the second sentence should have an apostrophe, so it should be It's not its.

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