should atheists have a solidarity with believers of satanism

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Trignigshit's picture
should atheists have a solidarity with believers of satanism

For a long time I thought that religion was a story from one perspective since that is what society teaches us the side that they want us to follow. in my day to day life I observe religious people making comments that are against satanism for a long time i didn't know that it was even a religion. This is because society defines the worshipers of satan as anti religion. Even now days when every group is showing up worshipers of Satan show up but get less acceptance in society because they are different. The protagonist in most religions is the antagonist in Satanism. This is a war in the war caused by ideological differences and as result of religions expansion and failure of the secular balance society isolated Satan`s believers and made them demonized. So my question or challenge to you is what should we as atheists do in this case should we just watch the demonization of one and the promotion of the other or take a step? I hope you share your thoughts and have a great time thanks for reading

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Pitar's picture
As a true atheist you shouldn

As a true atheist you shouldn't even have this knowledge. When you turned in your theist card you turned in all thought about it as well. You should not be aligning yourself with any ideology because you are not allied with spiritual-based nonsense, and have no desire to champion related causes. You are the epitome of apathy about that stuff and treat it as a non-existent feature in your life.

So, no, you should not cast your support in any manner for or against religious types because as a true atheist you can't give them a moments thought, much less consideration.

Trignigshit's picture
I totally agree with you but

I totally agree with you but we are humans and as human beings is it ethical to watch while one is being dehumanized. It is because you don't know their typical day in a world where society wants to define them as anti religion when they are as religious as every other religious person. think of it for a moment if society defined you in a way you don't want to be

C. M. Allen's picture
Funny thing about "human

Funny thing about "human nature". Its definition changes geographically, over time, and from culture to culture. Saying we as human beings should or shouldn't do anything is usually an expression of one's desires, beliefs, and subjective moral code. From a genetic point of view: as humans, no it isn't unethical to watch while another is dehumanized.

SBMontero's picture
That's I'm not interested.

That's I'm not interested. Christians have been dehumanizing Muslims for one thousand four hundred years, let's not say Christians and Muslims to the Jews and now Jews to the Muslims and turn the wheel to roll.
Does that mean that I have to defend a believer because other beliefs attack him? Hmmm no, another issue is that someone tries to physically attack a human being for their beliefs, or for lacking them, there I will be, but in relation to the other not. I don't care.

cranky47's picture
@Pitar

@Pitar

"as a true atheist"--no true Scotsman fallacy.

Aid we have an election and put you in charge? I seem to have missed it.

Tin-Man's picture
Hey, Cranky, I have not seen

Hey, Cranky, I have not seen Pitar around since about 2018. This thread was started in 2015. Basically, I wouldn't expect any response from Pitar any time soon.

cranky47's picture
@TinMan

@TinMan

Oh, silly old me.Thanks for that. Just as well, I was a bit rude, if sincere.

Travis Hedglin's picture
In my estimation Satanists

In my estimation Satanists are no less deluded or confused as any other religious person, why would I align myself with them?

Rose's picture
Satanism is another crazy

Satanism is another crazy religion that atheists should never ever support.

atheistpasta's picture
The modern version of

The modern version of Satanism, created in the 1960s and outlined in The Satanic Bible, by Anton LaVey, is actually an atheist religion.

SBMontero's picture
You understand that's an

You understand that's an oxymoron, if it's a religion cannot be atheist, and if it's atheist cannot be a religion, that expression to atheism is like military intelligence to intelligence.

I don't know if explain myself clearly Ôo)-~

Me,Myself and I's picture
I heard that most Satanists

I heard that most Satanists where actually atheist and use Satan as like an idol to enjoy life while here but don't actually believe he exists. (not all of them of course)

MysticCrusader's picture
An atheist is a non-believer

An atheist is a non-believer in "God", A satanist is a nihilist who believes in nothing and takes on the role of antagonist in every situation, theistic or non-theistic.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
As an atheist, it really has

As an atheist, it really has nothing to do with what an atheist should do.
Being an atheist is not a social club, it is just a position from millions of other positions you have.
(the lack of belief in one particular claim)

As a humanist one could argue that a person should be judged on his actions and not on his social club.

So any kind of demonetization or bias should be ridiculed.
This of course has to be applied to everyone including atheists.

So in your current claim, you are assuming that actual satanists exist, which I don't believe so.
There are some wanna be satanists or people which are accused to be satanists by fanatic Christians but the satanic theology has no roots.

If you dig in any claimed theology you will find that Satan was just "the opposition", working for god of the OT bible.
Like in court, you always need the opposition that shows an other picture to any problem.

Even if it existed, it could only be ridiculed by atheist anyway since it could follow the same theistic attributes.

If it does not follow any theistic attribute then atheists do not have any reason to get involved in it.

Travis Hedglin's picture
^ This, +1, with as many

^ This, +1, with as many zeros as you can cram on the end of it.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Heh, but they are very useful

Heh, but they are very useful. I've seen this happen more than once:

1: Christians come up with a new back door way to try to push their religion through the state.
2: Secular organizations complain.
3: Christians scream 'freedom of religion!'
4: Satanists start using the same back door method.
5: Christian stop using it and scream 'separation of church and state!'

Charvak's picture
It may have been the Satanic

It may have been the Satanic Church which is actually an atheistic organisation meant to ridicule christianity in politics and not truly satanism.

UberCryxic's picture
What is the definition of

What is the definition of 'satanism' being used here? And does 'solidarity' imply supporting civil rights or supporting a particular theological opinion?

Trignigshit's picture
civil rights

civil rights

Jeffrey Paul Bradt's picture
Right, we haven't even

Right, we haven't even determined which flavor of Satanism we are talking about: LaVeyan Satanism, Satanic Temple Satanism, what? There are different kinds with different beliefs. I know that The Satanic Temple is an atheist organization, but I don't know about other Satanist organizations. I doubt they're all atheistic.

Khandnalie's picture
ITT - a lot of misinformation

ITT - a lot of misinformation about Satanism. Satanism, for the most part, is an atheistic religion. There are a few theistic Satanists, but they are few and far between, and bear little relation to the main current of Satanism, so I shall disregard them save where specifically mentioned.

Satanists are also atheists - we believe in no literal god or Satan, nor do we (for the most part) hold to any supernaturalist view of the universe. Satan, for us, is a metaphor, a symbol, an archetype. Satan is a complex character and narrative, which we find useful for framing our lives, contextualizing our actions, and guiding our personal choices. Satan, to us, is not the red-guy-with-a-pitchfork of modern Christian mythology. Rather, we tend to draw our image of Satan from the pre-Christian Hebrew definition of Satan - opposer, accuser, adversary - as well as from classical/romantic notions of Satan - Milton, Blake, Anatole France.

You should certainly have "solidarity" with Satanists, atleast in whatever way you seem to think that you have solidarity with atheists, for the simple reason that we are atheists too.

Trignigshit's picture
do you understand the meaning

do you understand the meaning of atheism and do you have a source for your hypothesis

Khandnalie's picture
Yes, I do. It is a lack of

Yes, I do. It is a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Source: I've been both an atheist and a Satanist for about eight years.

Trignigshit's picture
I agree society teaches only

I agree society teaches only one perspective of religion and does not show us the othher

SBMontero's picture
I don't care about one, and

I don't care about one, and the other.

SBMontero's picture
First, there's no atheistic

First, there's no atheistic religion, that's an oxymoron, if it's religion it's a theist, if it's atheistic it isn't religion. As an atheist it seems insulting to me that someone claims that I have anything to do with any religion, a religion is based on beliefs, I have nothing to do with beliefs of any kind. I'm not interested in what a Satanist belive, or not. I'm not interested in what Satan represents to you, or I'm interested as much as what represents god to a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew, anthropologically very interesting, but ideologically rubbish.

Is there any rational reason for an atheist to claim to be a Satanist? The same as to say that he's a follower of Dybbuk, or the Djins, and I hope don't have to answer this here, I was also kicked out of the forum.

This gives embarrassment, for being gentle ¬¬)-~

Keith Raye's picture
@SBMontero

@SBMontero

If you accept the definition of 'atheist' as someone who rejects the idea of supernatural gods, then I have to disagree with you. Rejection of gods doesn't include rejection of religion. The two things are not inseparable.

cranky47's picture
@SBmontero

@SBmontero

" As an atheist it seems insulting to me that someone claims that I have anything to do "

Argument from ignorance. That you are offended has nothing to do with the argument.

It is my understanding that [some] hard atheists assert "I believe there is no god" That's an assertive statement . Certainly a basis for a religion.

This atheist does not claim to speak for others. Nor do others speak for me. Nor do I presume to tell others what they do or do not believe, nor indeed what an atheist is or is not.

I once ran across a hindu who was adamant that he was an atheist.

A great many Buddhists will argue that buddhism is an atheistic philosophy, not a religion--there are no gods.,the simplest definition of the word "atheist" . IE from the Greek; a=not/without theos=god.

Yet for millions more, buddhism is religion, with gods, demons, heaven and hell.

I assert nothing 'as an atheist" ,as if atheism has a dogma.

I will only say : THIS atheist does not believe in gods, heaven ,hell, angels, demons, the soul, the afterlife, the paranormal, dragons, mountain trolls or fairies at the bottom of my garden. All that because of an absence of proof.

As myself, the are many labels I use .They include; Humanist, pragmatist , skeptic, cynic and misanthrope.

Sheldon's picture
SBMontero "there's no

SBMontero "there's no atheistic religion, that's an oxymoron, if it's religion it's a theist, if it's atheistic it isn't religion."

"Oxford Dictionary defines religion as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods."

Note the word especially, thus religions do not exclusively involve a belief in a deity, and ipso facto one may hold a a belief that is not incongruous with the above definition, but still be atheistic. Buddhism is an obvious example, as not all Buddhists believe in a deity, but Buddhism is a religion. This is not of course to justify the erroneous claim that atheism is itself a religion, which it certainly is not.

Post caught my eye, but I see it is a couple of years old, so I may already have responded. my apologies if this is repetitious but it seems to be an error that theists often make, and as here occasionally atheists.

Sheldon's picture
"You should certainly have

"You should certainly have "solidarity" with Satanists, at least in whatever way you seem to think that you have solidarity with atheists, for the simple reason that we are atheists "

So you believe Satan exists but not the God religion claims created him? What exactly do you believe Satan is, and how do think he came to exist?

For the record I no more believe in Satan than in any deity. I don't believe in anything supernatural, until evidence is demonstrated that is commensurate to the claim.

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