Should christians be allowed to be medically treated?

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mykcob4's picture
Should christians be allowed to be medically treated?

Christians believe that everything that happens is the will of god. God moves in mysterious ways and all that bunk. Well, since they don't believe in science and believe in the will of god, should they be allowed to clog up our hospitals and emergency rooms? Shouldn't they just go to their respective churches for treatment. Or better yet, just stay home and pray!
If I was a believer, I would certainly practice what I preached. Every substantial sized military unit has a chaplain. Shouldn't his job be expanded to heal the christian wounded, instead of carting those christians off to MASH units? The VA hospitals wouldn't be so crowded. And just think of the medical insurance cost that these christians would save.
I submit that if you are a christian or a person of faith that you not waste your time and my money by going to a hospital or seeing a doctor. Your priest, rabbi, or cleric should be able to cure you of your wounds and or ills.
Let's say you lose your leg in battle, well just have the chaplain pray you a new one. There, problem solved.

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ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
We pretty much run most of

We pretty much run most of the hospitals lol. So a better question would be, what happens if Christians shut them all down.

xenoview's picture
John

John
Do you believe in faith healing or healing by prayer?

rtmcdge's picture
Yes. I believe in faith

Yes. I believe in faith healing. It has happened to my daughter and to myself. I have seen others who also were healed. Some of them of end stage cancers. I read of one young lady in another country who had died 3 times and was brought back to life each time. It was said that after each time the girl was brought back to life the family had someone like a witch doctor, had been called because they were a family new to Christianity and had decided for good measure to have the witch doctor do his thing. Which allowed satan to have his way. As Christians we should do all we do to have good health. We are after all supposed to represent our Creator. But when we get sick, it could be due to living an improper life style before we become Christians, or maybe sometimes we fail to live as we should after we become Christians. In any case we still pray and ask for healing. And that may come through direct healing or God may use an individual, such as a doctor to or someone who would pray for the sick. Nothing is guaranteed, because God knows what is best. But healing does occur, more times than some people realize.

bigbill's picture
There is a naturalistic

There is a naturalistic explanation for so called faith healing especially in cancer cases where remission is not uncommon to medicine. I for one moment doubt your source in the women who died 3 times and was brought back to life again. This is purely a case of deceiving the people as a whole. No such thing happened Gerald and deep down you know it is a hoax. And what do you mean by improper lifestyle? Healing only comes from a trained physician nothing else you can call all the witch doctors you want and there will be devastating results, So don`t think I should accept what you say here.As for God knows what is best is a real slight on your part because look all around you in your own family you say there is suffering every where and yet you theist have really no plausible explanation for that, all you can say is GOD knows best quite a stretch wouldn`t you admit.

mykcob4's picture
Gerald

Gerald
BULLSHIT! You didn't see anything healed by faith. You are just saying you did. So from now on for the rest of your life if you EVER use medicine or go to a doctor YOU are a lying hypocrite!
I have read some wild shit before but this post of yours is just fucking stupid!

Sky Pilot's picture
Gerald,

Gerald,

The problem is that the person still ends up dead. Even the best cure is just temporary. Sometimes living too long is the worst thing that can happen to a person.

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
I believe in healing by God.

I believe in healing by God. I don't believe in faith healing or healing by prayer. Prayer isn't a magic wand.

MCDennis's picture
Nothing fails like prayer

Nothing fails like prayer

algebe's picture
LOL. You're right there. My

LOL. You're right there. My last two hospital stays were in hospitals named after John Wesley and Saint Andrew. I'd advise against the Catholic ones though. I once had an operation in an institution called Calvary Hospital. The sisters stuck the hypodermics in like nails. And there's a Baptist hospital in Dallas where they extract your wallet through your nose.

bigbill's picture
Well a doctor takes an oath

Well a doctor takes an oath to see all different kinds of people life is precious, You know that some Christians children by there parents and adults have died because they did not seek medical help. They thought by praying and reading the scriptures that they will be delivered. But that in 100% of the caSES never came to fruition. I feel that all who need a doctor should be able to see a doctor regardless of religious persuasion or not. Where I live in the good old usa there is currently an argument of who should get health care, I feel that everyone should be able to afford health care. And if not they should go to the emergency room for care. I understand your point about overcrowding, but live I feel is precious so I don`t mind waiting for the other person to get seen no matter how long I have to wait.

chimp3's picture
I work in a health care

I work in a health care facility run by a fundamentalist Christian organization but the irony is never too far from my mind.

Daniel's picture
Everyone deserves healthcare

Everyone deserves healthcare regardless of their beliefs. Remember, there is no truly freewill, so theists are just not fortunate enough to have the right circumstances to realize there is no god. If you had a theists genes and exact life circumstances, you would be a theist!

MCDennis's picture
The point of course is that

The point of course is that if (a) everything is gods will and (b) gods answers all prayers --- then why would theists need to see doctors?

LogicFTW's picture
Fine by me. Just not the kids

Fine by me. Just not the kids. Also those forced into religion need a way to get service as well without fear and persecution.

Also, no religious group has better health outcomes than other theist of different religion or atheist when other variables are accounted for. Prayer and faith healing does not work. (quite a few faiths have lower overall health outcomes!)

Nyarlathotep's picture
I sympathize with the

I sympathize with the frustration: they talk about miracles and prayer healing, then run to the doctor when they get a sniffle.

Sky Pilot's picture
Well, to be fair, although

Well, to be fair, although angels cured people in magic pools and Jesus cured blind people with spit mudballs he did say that sick people should go to the doctor. It was the nuts in the book of James that claimed that sick people could be cured by anointing them with magic oil and praying over them.

MCDennis's picture
Moses provided the cure for

Moses provided the cure for leprosy. It is comedy gold.... Enjoy::

"...the priest shall order that one of the birds be killed over fresh water in a clay pot. 6 He is then to take the live bird and dip it, together with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, into the blood of the bird that was killed over the fresh water. 7 Seven times he shall sprinkle the one to be cleansed of the defiling disease, and then pronounce them clean. After that, he is to release the live bird in the open fields."

ZeffD's picture
People should 'believe

People should 'believe because' not 'believe in'. If someone here believes there is a god, they need to define it and prove it.

Obviously Abrahamic god(s) are the inventions of man, just like all the ones in godchecker.com.
Religionists themselves are disbelievers (atheist) regarding the gods they don't believe exist.

A theology is just a mythology taken too seriously. Even many religionists acknowledge that religion is man-made even if they seriously think there's a god.

As for Christians running the hospitals, about 80% or 90% of USAmericans say they believe in god...
http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx

Of course, they don't all believe in the same god as the variations in their definitions indicate. The fact that so many are of Abrahamic religions just shows how little they consider the question. Do people seriously believe there's a Holy Ghost, for example? How superstitious and ignorant would that be?!

chimp3's picture
The thing to remember is that

The thing to remember is that there is no god. We only have each other. Give your doctor a hug!

Deidre32's picture
LOL! I like your posts,

LOL! I like your posts, mykcob :) Well, not all Christians by a landslide believe that ignoring modern medicine, and praying their way to good health is really the best idea. I think there are fundies who may think along those lines, and they are usually in certain sects/cults that ignore medicine completely, in favor of waiting on God's healing. Like the cases we read about where kids die because their ignorant fundie parents refuse them chemo treatment, or whatever. It's so sad, really.

SecularSonOfABiscuitEater's picture
Well yeah we should all BUT I

Well yeah we should all BUT I'll say this again. the science deniers/critics in any religious group really should not reap the benefits of scientific discovery (which is most of modern medicine or modern anything)

Because that irony and hypocrisy is embarrassing.

jonthecatholic's picture
I actually had to click on

I actually had to click on the link to know what the question meant. I'll try to break this down.

"Christians believe that everything that happens is the will of god."

A common misconception- one I've had. There exists God's perfect will and his permissive will. It's not his will that we turn away from Him but He allows it because in His infinite wisdom, knows that more good will come out of it. It's like when you have a kid and you want them to never be hurt. That is your perfect will. When they go to school, they might get hurt - scrape a knee, get bullied, etc. One way to handle it is to accompany your kid everywhere he goes so he doesn't get hurt at all. Another would be allowing him to undergo all those negative things knowing he'll grow stronger because of it.

"God moves in mysterious ways and all that bunk."

All that bunk. Hahaha. Yeah. No objection here.

"Well, since they don't believe in science and believe in the will of god, should they be allowed to clog up our hospitals and emergency rooms?"

Another misconception. Many Christians believe in science. A quick google search will fix this. But let me mention two names. Georges Lemaitre and Gregor Mendel. In fact, many would say that the medicines we've come up with are answered prayers. It's like this. If I give you a pill which can cure a fever you're having, you don't thank the pill, you thank me.

"Shouldn't they just go to their respective churches for treatment. Or better yet, just stay home and pray!
If I was a believer, I would certainly practice what I preached. Every substantial sized military unit has a chaplain. Shouldn't his job be expanded to heal the christian wounded, instead of carting those christians off to MASH units? The VA hospitals wouldn't be so crowded. And just think of the medical insurance cost that these christians would save."
I submit that if you are a christian or a person of faith that you not waste your time and my money by going to a hospital or seeing a doctor. Your priest, rabbi, or cleric should be able to cure you of your wounds and or ills.
Let's say you lose your leg in battle, well just have the chaplain pray you a new one. There, problem solved."

This one's a doozy. Christians are asked to pray for healing. That is true. A lot of people miss this part of the equation about praying. Praying involves a conversation with God. So there's you asking for healing. There's also Him answering. A lot of people miss out on this part. He may answer in the form of guidance to surgeons (giving him peace of mind during the surgery), etc. Ignoring medical marvels like vaccines, or cures of different diseases is simply put, not listening to God's answer to our prayer. It's a conversation so there's a time to talk and a time to listen. And He can use anything in this world to convey His answer.

LogicFTW's picture
That would be awful if

That would be awful if parents were like the christian god.

It would be like the "parents" dropped the kid off at preschool, then were never heard from again, and just left behind a confusing "journal" for the little kid to go by.

Yay for giving god credit for random chance that is no higher than random chance for any other religion or atheist, or people that simply never pray.

UnKnown's picture
Just because we pray doesn't

Just because we pray doesn't mean we get healed. When prayer happens, God also hears and answers our prayers. It's just that God answers "no" 99.99%. He hasn't promised to answer yes. This is where physical healing/treatment comes in. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. But I believe that God always answers our prayers, but he hasn't promised to say yes, and that everything he controls.

algebe's picture
@Unknown: It's just that God

@Unknown: It's just that God answers "no" 99.99%.

That's tough. Then prayer is pretty much pointless, isn't it?

UnKnown's picture
I say 99.99% because here is

I say 99.99% because here is what I know:
1. God answers prayers, but he hasn't said it will be 'yes'
2. God may take years/generations to answer prayers
3. God may not answer the prayer exactly the way you think

mykcob4's picture
Prove it Unknown.

Prove it Unknown.
I say that you cannot prove that any god has ever answered a prayer.

UnKnown's picture
I prayed to God that my I

I prayed to God that my I will act out what I believe, that my faith will show in my actions. Now, I help out at a kid's club for disadvantages youths every friday evening/night (BTW, the other leaders quotes that the kids parents have said that I have become a/the big/biggest reason why they come), I lead a bible study, and help others out of charity every year.

mykcob4's picture
That isn't proof unknown. We

That isn't proof unknown. We can't test it, can't verify it, can't peer review it. And big deal BTW. I visit veterans and give money every month. I go to visit elderly people in retirement homes. I teach kids martial arts for FREE. I don't need a god to help me do that. I didn't ask a god about it. I just decided I wanted to help people.

UnKnown's picture
1. In your mind, how would

1. In your mind, how would testing go?
2. "And big deal BTW. I visit veterans and give money every month. I go to visit elderly people in retirement homes. I teach kids martial arts for FREE." - I do mine for free as well.
3. "I don't need a god to help me do that." - Congratulations, but I suffer for severe anxiety, and OCD. I needed help. I asked for courage.

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