The Spinning Wheel
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Points 1, 2 and 3. All potential possibilities for some cases but no evidence to support it in this situation
Point 4. I have no idea what you are saying or even implying
@In Spirit: I have no idea what you are saying or even implying
Reflect on your church's history of attracting believers and fleecing pilgrims with weeping Madonna statues, bleeding crucifixes, incorruptible dead bodies of saints, true crosses, magic spears, and various other gimcracks and brummagem. Maybe a spontaneously spinning bike wheel is just another bit of Jesus magic to impress the heathen.
You are now asserting that I have a church and religion when I have no church and no religion. That's why I couldn't understand your 4th point. I don't believe in any of the religious examples you have mentioned and not sure where you're getting the idea that I do. There is not one thread where I support those or any religious examples as such.
Because of the difficult questions atheists have posed against theistic claims, theists invented apologists and intelligent design. But it seems another theistic "profession" has become more common, of the "evasionist".
They claim to believe in a deity, but past that point they refuse to go any further, witholding their specific faith, church, whatever. IMO this is an adopted debating topic, to remain slippery and evasive, so they can not be held to anything.
Most likely answer, "something you did not check for." Best answer, "I don't know." Any other assertion will require evidence and support. From what I have read of your WooWoo posts, I would suggest an overly active imagination.
ANY CHILD LOCKED IN A BASEMENT FOR AS LONG AS YOU WERE WOULD HAVE SIMILAR SYMPTOMS.
1. The sensed presence usually happens to individuals who have become isolated in an extreme or unusual environment, often when high levels of stress are involved.
2. Seeing ghosts. spirits, demons, angels, and even gods may also be triggered by the “agency-detection mechanisms" proposed by evolutionary psychologists. (Ascribing agency to things and events. ) If you are in a basement and you are already prone to WooWoo thoughts. Thinking can be believing.
3. "A recent study by Kirsten Barnes & Nicholas Gibson (2013) explored the differences between individuals who have never had a paranormal experience and those who have. They confirmed that experiences of supernatural phenomena are most likely to occur in threatening or ambiguous environments, and they also found that those who had paranormal experiences scored higher on scales measuring empathy and a tendency to become deeply absorbed in one’s own subjective experience. " Look up "subjective experience" in the dictionary and you will find most of your posts listed there." (Same Citation as above.)
FACT: We were not there. There is no reason to doubt your story about the bike wheel moving. There is also NO REASON WHAT SO EVER to make the leap to WOO-WOO BULLSHIT. "That was weird. I don't know what happened." Is a perfectly acceptable answer until you figure it out.
Cognistic and Old Man Shouts
Seems like you might both be experiencing paranoid delusional thoughts. No such mention of what you are talking about coming from me in my OP or in this thread.
I have just the cure... a song for you to chill out and relax
For What It's Worth: Buffalo Springfield
@In Spirit Re: "For What It's Worth"
I always did like that song... *grin*...
@ In Spirit
I specified exactly what was wrong with your OP in my opinion. As a performer since I was 10 years old I have met and worked with all sorts of wierdies, woo woos and professed psychics. It is the nature of the business. All of them, without exception are up to some hidden game.
For some it was money, fame and all the trimmings. Some just wanted control, some wanted sexual power over others, but all, every single one of them claimed exactly what you claim. All could not produce evidence, all made up the same type of stories and expected the gullible to swallow without choking.
I stayed with a couple of "mind readers" and watched them...interesting as all hell, also the "cold readers" , and then the lowest of the low those that pretend to talk to the dead...and guess what, I lodged for a while with a woman who made her living doing just that. She even appeared on Japanese TV several times. She claimed to be a "Police Psychic" All bollocks of course, she did offer to help the cops and failed every time. She taught me a lot about the techniques, the misdirections, the prompts, the couple of details filled in for verisimilitude, leaving the marks to fill in the story...
Those who read your first word salad post and compare it to now...well either you are a very fast learner or a fraud.
You claimed to have helped hundreds of people, yet cannot produce one reliable witness despite multiple requests...what are we to think? You write this OP which reeks of "cold read 101 for beginners" and get people to respond. Why because most people on here are good kind people with honest lives, but all are sceptics...what better place for a performer to hone their skills?
When I was a muso we used to play free or busk trying out new material, or choose a horrible bar for a gig. Why? because if we could get them rockin we could get anyone enjoying our stuff. As a stand up I practised my routines on the most hostile audience I could find...go figure why. Oh you ,don't have to do you. You are doing it here, and for the same reason.
You claim to be a psychic...prove it.
You shoulda seen this coming for starters.
Old man shouts
" I specified exactly what was wrong with your OP in my opinion."
Your pulling magic out of your own hat, If that is what you got from my OP. Nowhere in my OP do I make any paranormal claim.
It is very clear that I was asking for NATURAL CAUSES. You have not pointed out anything in my OP to support your claim. You are making it up and you are a spin doctor in this thread. I have respectfully and enthusiastically accepted the collaborative help in identifying the potential natural causes.
My claim that you might be experiencing paranoid delusional thoughts still stands. I gather that you did not take a time out to listen to the song and chill out.
Perhaps this one might help
FROM THE BEGINNING: Emerson Lake and Palmer
@ In Spirit
No one cares about your accusations or faulty diagnoses.
You have already proved yourself a charlatan and a liar. You have a credibility rating in the high minuses.
I told you, I have long and varied experiences with creatures that make the same claims as you about their supposed 'talents'. It is my experience you will betray yourself again soon. It is in your nature either subtly or not to reveal your real game, whether you are a trickster or genuinely deluded (I have met a couple of those).
If you think you are genuine...prove it.
Old Man, it seems that almost all of the theistic visitors to this site fall into one of three categories. Apologists, intelligent design, and evasionists. I think I invented that last word, but I am sure you get the drift.
Dead right, and the sub set of evasionists is, of course, charlatans....and I like "Evasionists" . I shall watch next years entries into the Oxford, it will get my vote !
There is also absolutely no reason to believe this story at all. Given the previous postings of this individual it would definitely give grounds for a lack of credence in anything that is not evidenced.
The whole scenario is obviously contrived, for instance : accurate measurements of a door gap but no description of roof/ceiling type, bike, any other objects in the shed, type of window..nada.
Its a John Edwardes technique, and a liars technique, to supply one or two fine details but leaving the rest of the description vague enough to be filled in by the marks, sorry, audience's experience and imagination.
This geezer is practising his chicanery to see what he can get away with/ perfect his act before he takes it to another level. He is a performer.. That is all.
@InSpirit - RE: Old man shouts ...
Obviously I have been "OWNED" and there are some doubts about your honesty. I guess you have to expect that with all the woo woo you have posted. Still, I will give you a spinning bike wheel. So What! The correct answer remains - "I don't know." And until you can offer evidence for a supernatural cause, there is no reason to go there. (HINT - There is no good evidence at all, anywhere, for the supernatural.)
The conservation of angular momentum demands that if an object's angular momentum changes (wheel begins to turn), something else must have experienced a change in its angular momentum. I think Algebe and Old man shouts are on the right track.
In Spirit, not only are you the one stopping the wheel, you are spinning it as well.
"In Spirit, not only are you the one stopping the wheel, you are spinning it as well."
That's a potential reality but in this case I would say you are the spin doctor...pun intended
You asked for help in finding ‘natural causes’ for the wheel movement. You’ve been presented them. You seem to be rejecting them all. If there is a particular one you’re after, your OP should have stated such. I’ve no doubt now that you are behaving in a manipulative way. I shall decline further engagement with you.
My apologies for having misinterpreted your input and for accusing you of being a spin doctor.
You are correct. That can definitely be a natural cause of the event. After reading some previous comments of making unjustified accusations of me in this thread I had mistakenly taken your words as expanding on them. Your explanation makes it totally clear that that was not your intention. Mea culpa
Added in edit: I have accepted the majority of the responses . I did not reject almost all of them as you claim.
THE SPINNING WHEEL UPDATE
I want to thank everyone who participated. You have given me a treasure trove of information.
I am visualizing this like a row of dominoes. The last piece falling being the one that I observed and all the previous ones as all the potential influences and natural elements and forces involved.
As Tin-man said. Science is fun and I totally agree.
From our minds together: Gravity, air valve, weight and weight imbalances, air pressure, temperature, different materials, inclination (slope, slant), angle, roller bearings, underground power lines (imbalances and induction, magnetic forces, torque to the wheel), appliances that were on ex: dryer, electric currents, differential the air inside the wheel, heat, expansion and contraction, wind caused by air pressure differences in the room, sunrays, infrared and thermal imaging camera, mass, energy sources, angular momentum.
Lots to work with. Thanks again
And remember In Spirit, this is just a quick and short list of possibilities gleaned by a bunch of heathens. I am very sure we missed many other possibilities.
For example, maybe the valve stem was top center. A large truck passed by,producing low wave frequencies that carried into the basement. That may have been enough vibration to start the valve stem on it's journey.
Do you use tire balancer in the wheel? It is basically a goo that finds the imbalance. If you had been slowly spinning the tire, and stop it, maybe it took 3 or 4 minutes for the good to slide down one side, thus initiating the rotation.
The list of possibilities is very long,and in order to eliminate possibilities, it would take a lot of research and time. All from a simple wheel.
Thanks for your input.
I totally agree that we may have missed some other possibilities. I will add the new possibilities you have just added.
"All from a simple wheel."
Isn't that amazing? Kind of makes me wonder at the marvel they were experiencing when the first wheel was perceived.
I will be posting another one soon that has to do with electricity. Looking forward to your input.
In Spirit, you wrote, “I will be posting another one soon that has to do with electricity.”
To what end?
Nature is beautiful wonder. Even greater for those who understand how it works. Sometimes nature behaves in ways that I have no understanding of and my curiosity gets the best of me. Perhaps I am may also be looking for ways to dismiss some paranormal claims.
I have always been curious about myself as well, always taking time out from time to time to question why I am where I am: my beliefs, the friends I have chosen, my lifestyle and so on. Many people are not the same person they used to be, including me. It seems that we constantly evolve. I cannot say who I will be 20 years from now, just knowing that I have evolved many times over. Curiosity may have killed the cat but I'd rather be a dead cat due to curiosity than a cat that never questions anything including itself.
Science is fun as Tin-man stated
"I will be posting another one soon that has to do with electricity. Looking forward to your input.
And I will attempt to deliver rational responses, attempting to maintain a detached and professional position as a trained electrician and troubleshooter.
p.s. try to visualize electricity as water in a hose under pressure. The voltage is the pressure, the current is the volume of water being forced down the pipe. The insulation is the strength of the pipe containing the water and it's pressure. The higher the pressure the stronger the pipe must be. The higher the voltage the more effective the insulation must be. Or else it leaks out.
But this is an atheist forum, let us not forget the main topic in any thread should relate to theism, god, and why you believe.
"But this is an atheist forum, let us not forget the main topic in any thread should relate to theism, god, and why you believe."
Although , there are many OP's not related to this I will respect your request in my new OP, after all, I did request your input in the new OP. the least I can do is respect your request. I will work on the OP to turn it into a debate.
There is of course always the fact that the Blue Universe Creating Bunnies could be fucking with you.
Hello everyone. I have found some interesting science that may explain the spinning wheel and even help debunk supernatural claims of visions and other paranormal events.
Low frequency sound, usually inaudible, causes actual things to vibrate. It is possible that with enough vibration and all the variables involved mentioned by everyone here on AR ( air pin weight , wheel angle, direct sun heat, etc ) with the front wheel being suspended in the air, that this low frequency may be the cause for the wheel to start spinning. It would take an experiment to verify if low frequency sound is the culprit. Based on the research thus far, this may be the best explanation yet.
The article is very interesting as it also proves through scientific testing that low frequency sound causes visions as well and more.