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You haven't shown yourself able to have a conversation. You're emotionally invested and easily offended. You're not looking for dialogue. You're looking for outrage and disagreement.
Show improvements and I'll converse with you in the future.
@ Breezy
No wont work. Ive complied with your request so;
Answer the reasonable question.
" the simple question...if a woman loses sole control of her body at the moment of conception. who, in your view, should control her and the embryo from then on?
Who should be responsible for the embryo until maturity?
You should also entertain the challenge of getting your information correct,
I like some of your posts, they are interesting, even thought provoking!
However, you have entered conversations with claims or thoughts within certain realms,
such as physics in which you have been woefully incorrect.
But you and Nyar both have wonderful linguistic skills, sets that I would like to match one day, a reason I try to discuss in English and try to improve in English as well! :D
Wheezy " I have no interest in debates nor interrogations."
Then get the fuck out of the debate forum, and stop pretending, and lying. Just how one repetition of a question you instigated with a dishonest misrepresentation about what I had posted, then ignored my response yet again, represents spamming only you could know, but again appallingly dishonest from you wheezy.
Atheist Republic: "Our worldwide atheist forum provides a lively place for debate, support and CONVERSATION. We encourage DISCUSSION about any and all topics as long as it abides by our forum guidelines."
Mon, 02/05/2018 - 15:58 (Reply to #202)Permalink
John 6IX Breezy ****I have no interest in debates**** nor interrogations.
Home » Forums » The *****Debate*****Room » THE STRAW GOD FALLACY
Atheist Forums - A Place to Chat, Learn & Discuss Atheism & Religion.
Ironically, your posts resemble bickering more than they do debates. There is a form and a logic to debating which seems absent from your comments. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.
Debate
noun
1. a formal discussion on a particular matter in a public meeting or legislative assembly, in which ****opposing arguments*** are put forward and which usually ends with a vote.
Though admittedly this is difficult with someone as relentlessly dishonest and biased as you are, that's not a formal structure for debate or discussion, that's arrogant and dishonest.
You're even misrepresenting where you are now, as this part of the forum is
Home » Forums » The *****Debate*****Room » THE STRAW GOD FALLACY
I don't think you're capable of honesty at this point, and again I am hardly alone in noticing this. You have relentlessly made claims about abortion but ignored the facts that define a foetus or blastocyst, you have started threads on biblical slavery and relentlessly ignored all texts that directly mentioned slavery, you started threads questioning atheist morality, and refuse to answer question on theistic morality, or even have the decency to acknowledge what your motivation was. You have started threads in an atheist forum demanding your objections to scientific facts be answered, but refuse to acknowledge your motivation is religious and not scientific.
I shall let others decide if I try to give an honest and open minded appraisal of the facts as I can, and who is engaging in debate, and who is arguing for the sake of it, but I am not the one who is posting dishonest and contentious claims and ideas on a theistic forum. **IF** you have no interest in debate and argument as you now claim, then why come to an atheist forum and post views you must now will be anathema to the views held by most people on here.
I love the first three words of that definition lol.
I imagine you would, as it suits your rank dishonesty to skew the truth by only accepting narrow definitions and ignoring the whole of the facts, why do you think this is impressive, and what part of formal debating in your opinion require "lol" at the end of every sentence, are you trying to reassure everyone you are not phased?
Now finally after multiple pages of dishonest evasion would you like to address the fact that a blastocyst and a developing foetus is insentient, can't feel pain, can't experience emotion, form or recall memories, or emotional attachments to others, if these things don't define what it is to be human then what in your opinion does, a pumping heart?
If a woman is not to decide what she does with her body then who do you suggest does make the decision? Do you acknowledge that research shows criminalising abortion does not reduce the number of abortions sought, and often it is higher, and the abortions involve a far higher risk to the life of the women seeking a termination?
If a foetus is to be granted the right to use a woman's body against her wishes why not a fully formed adult? Why can't the adult offspring demand a woman be strapped down and a kidney removed to save them for example?
If it is an objective moral fact that it is wrong to terminate a pregnancy, then why is it ok to terminate a pregnancy that results from a rape?
TL;DR
Pious Fraud.
"I love the first three words of that definition lol."
What about the words in the definition of the word debate, that you just implied were not meant to be part of a debate? Any thoughts on those words, or is this like your 'debate' on morality, slavery, abortion, atheism, evolution, et al where you ignore what doesn't match your opinion. Note I never limited the definition to remove the words you have taken a shine to, even though it should be obvious a chat room seldom involves a formal debate in that sense. In other words you're being utterly dishonest again.
You might try showing some integrity for once, and not relentlessly making dishonest claims then ignoring people's response.
Trolling is also against the forum guidelines.
@ Breezy
Also please put your disingenuous mendacity to one side please answer this reasonable question:
" the simple question...if a woman loses sole control of her body at the moment of conception. who, in your view, should control her and the embryo from then on?
Who should be responsible for the embryo until maturity?
You raise an important point of course. As I have tried to ask myself, why would we assign a right to an insentient blastocyst or developing foetus to use a woman's body against her will, when it is demonstrably obvious we would never assign such a right to a fully formed human, whether baby child or adult?
As yet no one on the other side of the debate has had the integrity or courtesy to even acknowledge the question, let alone offer a candid response.
Satan used the opposite foundation of the reverse trap to take you back to the original lie on a subconscious level. In the Bible in the garden of eden it was 2 trees, tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. If you put the original lie at the root of the tree symbolically, Surely you will not die when you eat therof, your eyes will be opened, ye will become as god, knowing good and evil. That's the bait, the trap to get them to eat. What was produced on the exterior was sin, death, wickedness, fall of man, nakedness. Now remove Gods tree of life and replace it with the dummy modern day tree of life(tree of evolution) The root and bait is fact, logic, reason, science, intelligence. Once you eat and become atheist what's produce on the exterior is the original lie within your inner psychie. Your eyes are opened(something came from nothing) ye will become as god(remove god you become own god) Knowing good and evil(you can be a good person without believing in god) surely death will be cut off. Opposite foundation, reverse trick, to tak you back to the original while giving you a false illusion that you are enlightened.
^^ barf salad.
@Jazzy
Let's see...... Uh... I think I see what you are trying say. How's this?....
Satan blah-blah-blah yadda-yadda-yadda...... Garden of Eden yammer-belch-blah-blah-blah.... Bait trap.... eat.....yadda-yadda.... Sin... death... fall of man.... naked.... blah-blah-hiccup-fart.... eyes are opened.... Opposite foundation, reverse trick (whatever the fuck that means).... and blah-blah-yadda-blah-enlightened.
So, did I miss anything?
Yep. You missed blah-blah-blah...evolution...reason....Satan, TM. Possibly because that last Satan was heavily implied rather than stated. Think the sexual innuendo of that old English comedy gem, " Are You Being Served?", to gauge how heavily Satan was implied.
@Sushi Re: "Yep. You missed blah-blah-blah..."
Hey there, girlfriend! How ya been doing? Haven't seen you in awhile. As you can tell, same-o-same-o here. Never a dull moment. LOL
Anyway, in my defense, I thought I pretty well covered the Satan part with, "naked.... blah-blah-hiccup-fart." Although, in all fairness, I suppose I can understand how that could have been confused with meaning fish bowls on the backs of aardvarks at the North Pole. Common mistake. I'll try to be more specific next time.
A Philosophical Argument: (TL;DR Warning).
Death is evil insomuch that it deprives us of life. Death is not evil because of what death is: a profound emptiness. We cannot possibly experience that emptiness, we’ll have no understanding of it, and no feelings towards it once we’re gone. Death itself isn't the problem. The evilness of death comes about because it puts an unapologetic stop to life. If I die right now, in my 20’s, I’m losing the opportunity of having kept on living. I’m being deprived of whatever good I would have obtained in those 60 or 70 years I had left. Having a wife and a family, a house and a career; even the simple pleasures of walking barefoot; all these experiences are essentially ripped away from me. I’m also of the belief that life is worth living even when profusely inundated by misfortune and pain. I think suicide and thoughts of suicide are indicative of a psychological problem. I don’t think suicide is ever a rational decision. I view it as deeply irrational. Pain, as displeasing as it might be, is still worth experiencing in my opinion. We'll have the rest of eternity to be dead, so why rush it. Even if I were to suppose that suicide is ever rational, I want that decision to be mine to make. Let me live a miserable life for as long as I am able to tolerate it, and let me decide when to put an end to is.
All of this is something I view fundamentally wrong with abortion. The concept of a continuous identity, from embryo to adulthood, has been forwarded various times. Abortion not only deprives a human being of life, it also removes from them the choice of their own death. It is murder and nothing short of it. Abortion unquestionably puts an end to a human life. That person which could have, and should have experienced the pains and the pleasures of life has had it ripped away from them. They don't get to decide if life is worth living. They are not given the privilege of a voluntary suicide, of opting out from misery and pain. That decision is being made for them, forced upon them.
A person has won the lottery the moment they are conceived. As Dawkins famously said “We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia.” Out of the millions of possible combinations, one lucky person got their number called. It is a unique combination which will never again occur, and it is a unique person which will never be born again. It is a unique brain, and unique pair of eyes, that could have experienced this strange thing called life and the inexplicableness of consciousness. Abortion is evil insomuch that it deprives someone of life
@ Breezy
" I’m also of the belief that life is worth living even when profusely inundated by misfortune and pain. I think suicide and thoughts of suicide are indicative of a psychological problem. I don’t think suicide is ever a rational decision."
Then don't ever be in front of a patient.
Read this again in 40 years.
All the misplaced confidence of youth and none of the experience and wisdom of age.
I shall go easier on your tyro arse now.
The sustaining of life requires a greater quantity of death. Opposing abortion because you are opposed to death is not a sufficient reason.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Broadly speaking, you have to kill more life to stay alive than if you died.
By that you mean in terms of food?
As far as humans are concerned, yes.
If you live to be a hundred, you do not become more "alive", but more life must be extinguished in order for you to live that long.
I suppose, but wouldn't that have implications beyond abortion? Its an idea that would have us contemplating suicide before every meal. I think we naturally, and perhaps justifiably, ascribe more value to human life than plant and animal life.
I don't think we have to feel suicidal before every meal, obviously, but I do question your view that death is evil because it deprives us of life, while believing human life should be propagated. If you are opposed to death because it ends life, then you should be more opposed to propagating life than to the act of abortion.
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