What little of the Koran I've read seemed a bit vague. I would like to understand the relationship between Islam & Terrorism. Is it (as some people claim) written in the book? Or is it common interpretations that lead some people to violent acts? Someone told me that "Islam" means peace. So why is it that outsiders like myself (and many insiders as well) are so afraid of Islam? Perhaps someone can suggest a good book to explain this phenomenon.
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Siren be, you asked, “So why is it that outsiders like myself (and many insiders as well) are so afraid of Islam?”
I’m not afraid of Islam. However, I am terrified of many Muslims, Xtians, and (fill in the religious adherents of your choice).
@Sirenne:
Your first priority should be to ensure your own safety. Then find safe ways to promote a message of moderation and tolerance on-line using a VPN and other means to hide your identity. People who talk about tolerance will be seen as enemies by both sides in religious conflicts.
It is not the religion itself, but the negative effect it can inflict on humans who become victims of extreme positions. As far as I am concerned, religion is just the sandbox the game of extremism and terror is played in.
It doesn't matter what specific religion it is, it has extremist members who believe the end justifies the means.
Twenty years ago I had the good fortune in living right across my apartment hall from an Imam, a good family man, decent and a fine example of a peace-loving, caring man. I have friends of such demeanor in many various religions. But I also know complete assholes too.
@OP
The quran says to kill non-believers, multiple times. Because of this immoral word of a god, this specific religion/irrational belief called islam, initiates murderous acts by islamic followers, carrying out the words of the non-existent god they believe in. These acts are a form of terrorism. Islam is not the only religion that promotes fear to keep it believers and non-believers in a state of terror, through a fear in an immoral non-existent god's word...but it is the religion that takes the step to allow killing others in the name of a non-existent god.
Insane? Absolutely. But, because of this, and for excellent reason, islam is synonymous with terrorism.
@doG
"Insane? Absolutely. But, because of this, and for excellent reason, islam is synonymous with terrorism."
"
I'm sure you believe that. I think our life experiences are very different
I'm unable to agree with you. (see my post in this thread)
@Sirenne
Welcome.
To respond to your post:
Reading the Quran [and Hadith} alone will tell you very little about Islam as it is practiced, nor will your understanding be the only credible one. The same as reading the Torah and the New Testament will tell you very little about how Judaism or Christianity are practised.
My opinion is that terrorism is to Islam is what the Ku klux Klan is to Christianity.
There are about ONE BILLION Muslims in the world and dozens of different sects within Islam. To attempt to categorise Islam or all Muslims in any particular way is not reasonable and unsupported by any credible evidence of which I am aware.
It is my understanding that Muslim terrorists tend to belong to the Wahhabi Sect, which is dominant in Saudi Arabia. This is an ultra orthodox Muslim sect which practices Sharia law. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy, where women were recently given permission to drive a car .
Terrorists have traditionally been trained in ultra orthodox Madrassas (religious schools) and ultra orthodox imams far as I'm aware.
My own experience with Muslims and Islam:
I lived in a muslim country. (Malaysia) ThereI had the good fortune to spend a lot of time in a local Kampong .(village) I made several good friends and met most males and some women in the village. I was always treated with respect, kindness, trust and hospitality.
Of course I was aware of the many flaws of Malaysia as a country. Imo those flaws are due to the foibles of men rather than to Islam.
I read the Quran as background for studies of aspects of Islam at university.
Today there are many Muslims in my area, some are close neighbours.
It is my experience that the Muslims I've met want exactly the same things as most people everywhere: A safe, peaceful life, free from fear and want. A place where they can make a good living and offer their children a good future.
I do not now, nor have I ever feared or hated Muslims.
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I agree that like the Torah (on which it is based) the Quran can be contradictory.
There are many passages admonishing Muslim to respect and show tolerance to "People of the Book". The term refers to Jews, Christians and Sabians. At some times, it has also included Sikhs and even some Hindus.
There are also many passages in the Quran forbidding the killing of innocents.
Does that mean terrorist are not 'real' muslims? (no true Scotsman fallacy) No, it means they are bad muslims. Just as members of the Ku Klux Klan and the hateful Westboro Baptist Church are still Christians. BUT they are bad christians ,in my opinion.
Then what is a good christian ? My darling late mother was a good christian .A devout Catholic, mum gave witness to her faith by the way she lived her life; with kindness and compassion to others. At her funeral, there were many people mum had helped who the rest of the family knew nothing. ,
@cranky
Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, had people killed for insulting him or for criticizing his religion. This included women and children.
Muslims are told to emulate the example of Muhammad.
How is this not promoting violence and terror?
@doG
I've stated my position and given my reasons. I did that as an explanation , not the basis of an argument .
It's clear our world views are very different on this topic, and that's fine. Happy to agree to differ.
My reasons for being here do not include teaching or changing anyone's mind about anything .
OK...I understand your point of view very well. It was my view also, not that long ago.
Through muslim friends, I came to realize that ALL followers of islam, follow the word of allah, and Muhammad. Even when that word is violent or immoral. All followers of islam follow their god's/prophets word, and will not risk being considered an apostate by not following or emulating said teachings.
@Sirenne:
I seriously doubt you tried reading the Quaran? It's not near as long as the bible and it is certainly not vague. Not at all.
Allah has sickened the hearts of disbelievers and increased their disease. He is a spiritual anti-doctor. 2:10
Allah will shed human blood while angels praise him in heaven. (The angels question why Allah has to kill people; Allah says they'd understand if they knew everything like he does.) 2:30
Christians and Jews (who believe in only part of the Scripture), will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
But if there are any wrong-doers around after you've killed off all the disbelievers, persecutors and aggressors, then you'll have to kill them too. 2:193b
Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
It's you and your religion against them and theirs. They won't stop fighting until they make you a "renegade from your religion" and if they succeed in that so you die in disbelief, Allah will burn you forever in the Fire. 2:217
Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10
If you die fighting for Allah, you'll be rewarded in heaven. 3:157
Those who die fighting for Allah will go to heaven. 3:195b
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33 *All disbelievers fight against Allah*
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137
This shit just goes on and on and on and on and on.......
@OP
Islam, like Christianity, has shitload of stuff that can be used as a tool to polarize our worst tribal instinct which would lead the violent jihad or terrorism just like how Crusades lead to wars. The difference between the two is that Christian nations (mostly West) went through changes brought up by past few centuries of enlightenment and culture of scientific humanism.
There is still pretty bad shit out there in bible or Christian religious teachings but no one in Christendom really gives a shit about it anymore and lives mostly secular lives. The religious influence has taken a more diplomatic and political form. For example, ongoing support of Israel by Evangelicals based on the idea of End of days.
Islamic countries and populations however have not been exposed to such enlightenment and humanism and are still ruled by powerful theocratic monarchies or democracies who control education and free speech. Due to such authoritarian control any dissent that could bring the similar changes that happened in Europe in ~17-20th centuries are nipped in the bud. Basically, muslim world is living in the medieval times that Europe lived few centuries ago. Western political policies in middle east since post oil reserve discoveries in early part of the 20th century of course didn't help either.
This is of course is no justification–modern world can't wait for less developed part of the world to take centuries to catch up. We don't have that kinda time. Muslim world must learn from modern world, must educate its masses with better schooling in the fields of modern science and technologies and humanities with policies that allow for free speech––and west should help those efforts instead of seeking profitable partnerships with monarchs that keep things from changing (e.g. selling arms to Saudi Arabia).
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/10/20/how-the-muslim-world-lost-the-freed...
An interesting read.
Also not just “arms” (ie Saudi’s Arabia) but “oil”. Money supports where money is spent.
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It is important to note that Islam as a religion does not promote or condone terrorism or violence against innocent people. In fact, the Quran specifically prohibits the killing of innocent people, and it emphasizes the value of human life and the importance of treating others with https://subway-surfers.io kindness and compassion. However, there are certain individuals and groups who have used Islam as a justification for acts of terrorism. These individuals or groups often misinterpret or manipulate religious texts to suit their own agendas, and their actions do not represent the vast majority of Muslims worldwide.
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