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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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I am sorry, that fails to meet any proof. Such a vague and generalized statement could be said by anyone, and interpreted at any time.
I could take that statement and interpret it as what happens with a home invasion, or a termite infestation, or any of many countless wars.
How about something specific? Names, dates, specific events.
@ David Killens
Its the Humpty Dumpty form of prophecy that's like Nostradamus and the biblical prophecies, all are couched in terms so vague we can say " “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that's all.” Lewis Carroll.
Thank you Old man, I am aware that it is pointless. I just decided to demonstrate that very fact.
I have proof.
What proof?
Prophecy.
What prophecy?
Humpty.
Dumpty?
Then it all breaks down under examination, thus proving squat.
eddiem3: [1Th 5:3 NET] 3 Now when they are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction comes on them, like labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will surely not escape.
Boy someone is delusional. eddi, that has been happening since the beginning of forever. Thousands of years before the Bible was ever thought of.
rmfr
@eddiem
How is that prophecy "due soon"? What " peace and security" are you talking about?
STOP THE PRESSES!!! Hey, guys, I don't mean to rain on anybody's parade, but I do believe there may be something to the whole prophesy thing! Bear with me for a minute...
I was out on my tractor cutting back the trails behind my house today, and there suddenly appeared to me from the underbrush a tiny gnome. He called himself Roger, and said he was the Master of the Mythical Tree Stump Gnomes of the Dagobah System. He told me he had a message of warning and great importance he wanted me to pass along to the rest of humanity. Then he projected a vision into my head. I'll try to repeat it as accurately as possible...
"And, LO, somewhere between the next 2 and 2000 years there will be a full moon. And during that full moon, people in a prominent city in a prominent country will be afraid. For they will at that time hear the clanging of bells and shrills of sirens and whistles surrounding them, indicating the TIME has drawn near. There will then be those that have cast aside reason who will have their foundations shaken to the very core, and there will be nigh which they can do about it. And in that same night, riches beyond imagination will be bestowed upon others who have wagered wisely. HEAR ME! These things SHALL COME TO PASS!"
Pretty sure that was it. When I snapped out of it, I discovered I had driven my tractor into a tree. Thankfully, it was not going fast at the time. (Still, that bastard little gnome could have at least let me stop first.) Anyway, any idea what any of that could mean? Sounds pretty serious. *biting finger nails*
To answer the original question posted, i will answer it from an Islamic perspective first and foremost, we are taught to worry about our own actions and beliefs before anyone else because, we ourselves are flawed and need to work on ourselves first. With that said, we are also taught to advise people that are doing wrong, and if they reject us or our advice once or twice then leave them alone. There is NOT a single verse in the entire Quran that says to force your beliefs or religion upon anyone, including your own family if they reject you as well. I could go on and on but i think you get the idea. I hope that helps give you a little insight
Why then did Muhammad wage war against peaceful settlements over the entire Arabian penisula, an example which his followers continued throughout North Africa, the Middle East, Asia, Europe etc., right up to the modern day?
Muhammad did that? First time i ever hear of this. Got a reliable and credible source to cite?
@ Man in Search
"Muhammed did that?
Sorry to butt in , however...couldn't resist
Muhammad spent his last ten years, from 622 to 632, as the leader of Medina in a state of war with pagan Mecca. Muhammad and his Companions had earlier migrated from Mecca to Medina in what is known as the Hijra. Through raids, sieges, and diplomacy, Muhammad and his followers allied with or subdued some of the tribes and cities of the Arabian peninsula in their struggle to overcome the powerful Banu Quraish of Mecca.
They also sent out parties against Arabic-speaking communities ruled under the Roman Empire. Muhammad was believed by the Muslims to be divinely chosen to spread Islam in the world, and Muhammad ultimately permitted warfare as one aspect of this struggle.[1] After initially refusing to accede to requests by his followers to fight the Meccans for continued persecution and provocation, he eventually proclaimed the revelations of the Quran:
"Permission to fight is given to those who are fought against because they have been wronged -truly Allah has the power to come to their support- those who were expelled from their homes without any right, merely for saying, 'Our Lord is Allah'..." (Quran, 22:39-40)"
After the first battle of Badr against the Quraysh, he is reported as having said "We have returned from the lesser Jihad to the greater Jihad (i.e. the struggle against the evil of one's soul)."[2] John Esposito writes that Muhammad's use of warfare in general was not alien, neither to Arab custom nor to that of the Hebrew prophets, as both believed that God had sanctioned battle with the enemies of the Lord.[3]
Also The Caravan raids refer to a series of raids which Muhammad and his Companions participated in. The raids were generally offensive and carried out to gather intelligence or seize the trade goods of Caravans financed by the Quraysh, (such retaliation was explained as being legitimate by saying many Muslims possessions and wealth left behind when they migrated from Mecca were stolen). The Muslims declared that the raids were justified and that God gave them permission to defend against the Meccans' persecution of Muslims.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_career_of_Muhammad
(Tags edited)
You are really bringing in wikipedia as a source? That's not how one gets taken seriously. Also, how do Mecca and Medina constitute as " entire Arabian penisula"?
@Man in search of truth
The Islamic invasion of the Levant region happened in the years immediately after Muhammad's death, by which time the Muslim conquests of most of the Arabian penisula had been secured.
@@Man in search of truth
I agree that Wiki should not be taken at face value. But that article has sources, thus bringing legitimacy.
Also, just to use this fake source you used. What is wrong with anything the Prophet did based off your fake wikipedia source? Also " (such retaliation was explained as being legitimate by saying many Muslims possessions and wealth left behind when they migrated from Mecca were stolen)" this is factually untrue as this never happened. There are WAY tooooooo many lies and untrue facts to disect one by one. Please use a credible source. This is sad
@Man in search of truth
The early Islamic accounts record that Muhammad started off as a caravan raider and murderer of peaceful merchants which is how he got into conflict with the Meccans. It had absolutely nothing to do recovering stolen property.
"A caravan of Quraish carrying dry raisins and leather and other merchandise of Quraish passed by...” (Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 424)
"The Quraysh said that Muhammad and his Companions violated the sanctity of the Sacred Month and shed blood, confiscated property and took prisoners during it. Those who refuted them among the Muslims who remained in Makkah replied that the Muslims had done that during the month of Sha`ban (which is not a sacred month)." (Ibn Kathir)
Note that the account does not dispute that the Muslims carried out murder and thievery, only that it happened during a sacred month.
@Sappro
Just FYI, the website thereligionofpeace.com that you used is well known in the Islamic community to be known as one of the worst possible sites for anything on Islam. Please use credible sources, by that i mean sources that are actually credible and sources used by the non hateful Jews, Christians and Muslims that are often and normally used in debates. Look some up because to be honest, this and Wikipedia just makes you look like you are simply copy and pasting without even reading
@ Man in Search
So, the only credible source for information would be the Hadith and Qu'ran themselves? According to you that is.
Historically the rise of Islam was accompanied, as it is today with massacre, wholesale genocide, treachery and directed by Mohamed himself by means of "revelations". His descendants continued the tradition right up until now. Quoting the holy books to justify wiping out whole villages, taking Yazhidi and Kurdish women as sex slaves. throwing gay males off rooftops. The atrocities committed in the name of Islam are as evil and twisted as the same atrocities committed in the name of Christ.
Sources? Isis themseves, Al Quieda themselves, Hezbollah themselves, are those credible enough?
Now I am expecting the "but they're not really muslims" apologetic.
Do you not think we have all heard of Al Taqiyyah here?
(spelling!)
@old man shout
"Do you not think we have all heard of Al Taqiyyah here? " I honestly do not believe you know what it means as by the way you are talking you do NOT understand the context in which Taqiyyah is used. Also, i dont need Taqiyyah here since i am not in any harm or danger and came here willfully to try and have a discussion with people that think they are smart. So far i have seen nothing but the exact same weak claims and pathetic hateful weak sources cited proving that no one here has yet to ever look in to Islam or what it truly teaches. If you think you are smart or bringing something new to the table, you are not. Everything people here are saying have been said for the last few centuries. The Muslim haters are no smarter today than they were 5-600 years ago.
@ Man
"If you think you are smart or bringing something new to the table, you are not. Everything people here are saying have been said for the last few centuries. The Muslim haters are no smarter today than they were 5-600 years ago."
And the same miserable claims have been made by theists for longer. I do not "hate " muslims, thats a straw man. I don't "hate" christians or Jains, or Zoroastrians, or Yazhidi, or Animists or Buddhists.
I do hate hypocrisy, lies and misogyny, all of which your espoused fairy tale has in spades. And yet you present it as a divine inspiration, perfect? That is just totally delusional.
Your book is founded on ignorance, treachery and bloodshed as is the christian book. But yet I still don't "hate" the delusional followers of those books, I hate their actions when they kill, deride, and preach.
@Man in search of.... Re: "I honestly do not believe you know what it means as by the way you are talking you do NOT understand the context in which Taqiyyah is used."
CONTEXT!!!... (Gee, and I thought the Christians were bad about that. *rolling eyes*)
Okay, so, for the sake of playing along for the moment, I shall concede you are definitely (obviously) not in harm's way or under any threat of danger here. And I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you do not intend to start any wars with anybody here any time soon. So in those respects, we are on the same page. Cool. Oh, and I will even take it a step further and agree that under either of those conditions, the whole Al Taqiyyah "clause" would be a handy tool to have at your disposal. Having been in a couple of wars or so, I would certainly lie my ass off and be as deceitful as I could be to my enemy if it gave me an advantage over him. (Sun Tzu is awesome.)
The thing is, however, when it comes to the Al Taqiyyah, that is something taught from your religious book to be used by its followers in every-day life in ANY situation (not just war or danger) where it comes in handy when dealing with those who do not believe in your faith. Granted, you may not NEED the Al Taqiyyah here on this forum. (Honestly wouldn't do you much good on here anyway, because - contrary to what you might think - there ARE some pretty smart mo-fo's on here.) But that still does not detract from the fact that YOU and those of your faith are actually COMPELLED to use it whenever it gives you an advantage over non-believers. You even admitted as much simply by stating, "... i dont need Taqiyyah here since i am not in any harm or danger and came here willfully..." You did not deny you follow it. You only said you do not need it HERE. Something you might want to keep in mind. Just a little friendly word of advice, you might say. Be aware that when you (or any other faithful follower of Islam, for that matter) ask somebody to trust you based on your beliefs, just because that person may agree to trust you, it does not necessarily mean he/she actually does. Two can play at the Al Taqiyyah game. *Big Grin*
Butt I arent too vary much smart sumtymes. I ar jest a dumm ay-thee-ist. Sew maibee me no noe nuthin.
Yes, i said i don't need it here and do acknowledge that i believe in it but not any way close to the form you have described. Taqqiyah is not encouraged nor permitted to be used unless only in states of emergency and this forum does not qualify as one. Had i been kidnapped for being Muslim and they said they would kill me if i was, then in that case i am allowed to lie and say i am not. Common sense stuff, i am not sure why you guys are twisting it in to something evil. You will keep arguing and probably going to false sources to try and prove your point but, when someone who lives and studies the religion and knows 100% what Taqqiyah you call them a liar. Lose-Lose situation since most are blinded by their hate.
@ Man
wriggle wriggle little fishy...the hook is set.
Man in search of enlightenment: Wikipedia just makes you look like you are simply copy and pasting without even reading
And Wikipedia is infinitely more accurate than ANY religious text.
rmfr
@Man in search of truth
I refered you to early accounts written by Muslims about their conquests.
Untrue facts? Wtf is an untrue fact?
something like a square circle
I'm pretty sure that what separates a fact from an opinion is that a fact can be disproved, while an opinion cannot. So, an untrue fact is simply something that has been disproved.
- "The moon revolves around the earth." is a true fact.
- "The moon is made of green cheese." is an untrue fact.
- "It would be fun to live on the moon." is an opinion.
This Pedantic Moment is brought to you by Sheer Boredom.That's Sheer Boredom, now available in convenient travel packs!
An opinion is open to precisely the same strict methods of validity as established facts.
An "untrue fact" is quite obviously an oxymoron. Something can't be both a fact and untrue as they're mutually exclusive.
Man in search, please provide data to back up your assertions about the veracity of Wikipedia.
@cyberLN
" please provide data to back up your assertions about the veracity of Wikipedia." the day a high school accepts wikipedia as a valid source, come back and lets talk. If high schools don't accept that as a source neither does any respectable scientists or establishment, why should i? I now see how foolish i was coming here expecting someone to make any sense.
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