Theists, define your deity(ies) once and for all!

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Sheldon's picture
Doug R's picture
Your argument that "Why in

Your argument that "Why in the hell do you think Las Vegas is still in business? One person with any kind of extrasensory perception would clean Vegas out in a day. Vegas exists to take advantage of dopes who think they can predict outcomes better than the odds. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN" is fallacious.

I've worked with many casino workers over the years, and it's well known in the casino business that there is such a thing as a "run of luck". That's why when someone starts to win repeatedly, the croupiers are changed. It helps to break the run of luck.

It's easy to see that nobody can "clear out Vegas in a day" because card counters exist. They profit for a short while, before being blacklisted and banned from every casino. The reason casinos don't lose to runs of luck and card counters, is because they actively prevent this from happening.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Doug R - I've worked with

Doug R - I've worked with many casino workers over the years, and it's well known in the casino business that there is such a thing as a "run of luck". That's why when someone starts to win repeatedly, the croupiers are changed. It helps to break the run of luck.

changing dealers does not change the probabilities, you've gone off the reservation

Doug R's picture
Nevertheless, this is

Nevertheless, this is precisely what pit bosses are trained to do. I agree that mathematically it is meaningless, but casino operators in general believe in "runs of luck" and further believe that changing the croupier can help to break those runs. I've also spoken to hundreds of casino workers who absolutely agree, and this phenomenon has been the start of many long discussions.

Just giving a real-World example that, rightly or wrongly, flies in the face of commonly accepted statistics and probability.

Nyarlathotep's picture
@Doug R, I care not what you

@Doug R, I care not what you think the blue collar workers in a casino believe. Changing the dealer does not effect the probability, contrary to what you said.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Nyar and Doug R

@ Nyar and Doug R

As you certainly know Nyar, here is a very good reason for changing the dealer and even the pit boss when the odds are being bucked. It has nothing to do with "breaking the run".
Just one of the many reasons is: A consistent winner or anyone bucking the odds are a danger to the audit (conducted both regularly and randomly in all licensed casinos) . There is a small, very small spread, of permitted statistical outcomes, that will not attract a very expensive and intrusive full audit.

Similarly when a punter is noticed to be losing more than his limit or shows discomfort then he is taken by blandishment from the tables and comped meals, drinks a show is cheaper than losing a customer.

There are at least three professionals in this forum with casino management experience that I know of, Mr Doug R, I suggest you confine your comments to fact unless you want to be taken for a complete mug.

There is not a skerrick of evidence for the claims about casinos and gamblers you are making. I've worked plenty myself.

(Edit for clarity)

Cognostic's picture
@ Ewwww! Old man. A

@ Ewwww! Old man. A kindred spirit. I have not played on of the carnival games in 20 years and table games like Black Jack are for Losers for no other reason than they are easy to play and huge money makers for the casino. Baccarat is another game, extremely popular in Asia. It's all they had in my last visit to Macao. The Holdem tables were bullshit, there were probably 5 in the entire city and they were loaded up with regulars teamed up to fleece the tourists.
I watched a game for almost an hour. Bet, everyone fold. Bet, everyone fold. Bet everyone fold. Real friendly play and I believe everyone at the table was set mining. I did not sit down.

David Killens's picture
Casinos are a poor testing

Casinos are a poor testing medium. Try Powerball.

Cognostic's picture
RUNS OF LUCK are statistical

RUNS OF LUCK are statistical actuallities that have nothing what so ever to do with LUCK. I play professional level poker. I will be at the Next Asian Open. May 29 to June 9, 2019 at the Paradise Casino - Grand Walkerhill, Seoul, South Korea.
I'm playing. Any idiot who sits at a card table and thinks he is having a lucky run is going to over bet and end up losing everything. Yes, it happens. Yes we call it lucky. It's not. It is pure statistics.

The reason casinos do not lose money to card counters is because they shifted from a 1 deck game to a 6 or 8 deck shoot. The odds are always in favor of the house. A counter can even out the odds or even move them to slightly in his or her favor with a good knowledge of math and statistics. THIS HAS NOTHING WHAT SO EVER TO DO WITH ANYTHING SUPERNATURAL. NOTHING IN ANYTHING YOU HAVE SAID SUPPORTS THE IDEA THAT ANYONE CAN DO ANYTHING SUPERNATURAL. NOTHING!!!

FYI: Card counting is not cheating. Neither is edge sorting. The casino simply evokes their right not to do business with these people. They can not be arrested and they are doing absolutely nothing illegal.

Cognostic's picture
"Just giving a real-World

"Just giving a real-World example that, rightly or wrongly, flies in the face of commonly accepted statistics and probability."

Okay.... These are certainly real world examples and they actually do occur and people actually do think this way. That is acceptable. It actually does not fly in the face of probability. If it did, probability would not exist. If a person managed to win every single time he sat at a table, even with the odds against him, probability would only factor this in to the set of statistical facts. "As explained on this page, the probability of winning a hand of blackjack is about 42.22%. If we assume ties count against the streak, the chance of winning ten hands of blackjack in a row are about 0.422210, or 0.018%, or 1 in 5555."

One in every 5555 times, it will happen.

Sheldon's picture
A "run of luck" is surely

A "run of luck" is surely just a temporary set of results that defy the odds.

The odds haven't changed, nor are they "favouring" anyone. In any random event there will be results that defy the odds in the short term, but the odds will win in the end every single time. There's a reason casinos offer perks to winners, it's to keep them in the casino long enough to get that money back. Which is as sure a bet as any you'll ever make if they keep gambling.

"The reason casinos don't lose to runs of luck and card counters, is because they actively prevent this from happening."

By the sure method of keeping people gambling, as the odds are against them. The luck is a random event , it will inevitably run out if the gambler keeps going. Card counting isn't luck of course, and a "lucky" dealer is just nonsense sorry. I think the superstition here underpins the far more likely rationale that the dealer is in on something nefarious, or is missing something nefarious because they're tired. Either way, the odds don't change.

In Spirit's picture


I will have to get back to you this weekend. I told arakish and will tell you also that I am having problems on this site. When I tried getting on the website it kept telling me that I was banned. No idea why. Finally got in and starting typing a long reply to you and ....woosh....everything just disappeared, including my internet. My computer itself is fine. Not sure if there is a side effect of the DDo still. Anyways it was frustrating having seeing my long reply to you just vanish. I have to get bak to work.....see you this weekend.

Cognostic's picture
Don't type a long reply. I

Don't type a long reply. I get bored with the, Paraphrase and use links. Keep It Simple. I hope you are not continuing the Vegas Analogy. YOU HAVE BEEN SHOT DOWN on that one. Repeating the same crap over and over when you have been completely debunked is equally tiresome.

In Spirit's picture


The short reply as requested

The James Randi test is for academics and those whose works are professionally in the media. I do not qualify.

When i said that those who want to seek a God should find it in the real world and not in books refers to people who are seeking a God.

My ESP experiences are enough to write a book about. Time after time anything I know about others through ESP, including strangers are confirmed as true. Coincidence does not operate this way.

As for one is willing to carry out the experiment. Experiment = result. Others will take the same experiment to either validate the result ot invalidate it. That is how the scientific field operates.

Let me ask you. How would you as an atheist respond or conclude from having thoughts about others, things you never knew and some people you never knew, proven as true, time and time again?

How would you explain or deny seeing things time and time again as real as the manmade objects or the natural world you live in?

How would you explain that you know, where the missing bodies are? How would you explain knowing that you know that someone is planning a murder and the notes are found?

I can go on and on and on with examples of various types.

How would you deal with it?

I've been sent to psychologists to verify my mental status. When I started telling them things about them I can't possibly know, they deemed nothing was wrong with me and left it at that.

toto974's picture
@In Spirit

@In Spirit

When you're talking of ESP, is it the same thing as Out of body Experience? If this is the case, have you evidence, notes, diaries, official documents, photographies, trustful testimonies to prove anything you've written?

In Spirit's picture


I have never had an out of body experience. From what I know that is when you see your self from the outside of yourself alluding to the spirit sense of you looking at the real natural you.

As for trustful testimonials that can't be accepted as proof. What is a trustful testimony? What do you consider official documents? I have plenty of notes of the experiences with witnesses to many events.

An example of 1 experience is shopping at a store and I am looking at some products on a shelf and then all of a sudden I am in a bank and I see a thief shooting a security guard twice. The next thing I know I come back to reality and wonder how long I have been staring at this one product and if anyone is staring at me wondering what I'm doing there still as a wall. Well when I leave the store and walk out. There are cops one block down and I am told that the security guard at the bank has just been shot twice. I see crimes and the villain in other countries as well but that does not occur often. Don't know if there is a label to this experience.

When I was being interviewed by 2 psychologist I noticed that they made an emphasis to find out if I hear voices. I told them I did at times. They asked me if they ever ask me to harm myself or others. They never do. They asked me if I thought God was talking to me. I said no.

There is no way to prove anything as far as I know.

I don't know how photography is of any use for ESP.

ESP for me happens in many ways: Here area few examples
1) I hear other peoples thoughts. I don't decide when it happens. It just happens. I am guided to the person with that thought. I am given specific words to help that person through the thing that is troubling them. This happens at random anytime anywhere.
2) I sense things before they happen.
3) I see crimes in the planning stage or after the fact. Ex: I have helped one family avoid being murdered when an investigation found the murder plot written down. Other times I can see the murderer - I don't know who it is - but I know where he/she can be found. Sometimes I see where the missing bodies are
4) I see good or even mundane events before they happen
5) I know exactly everything that is going to happen on specific days. This can be quite boring when you know exactly what is going to happen. This happens rarely
6) I know the exact day when someone is going to die. Again, this happens at random, not my choosing to know these things.
Sometimes I see when someone in my neighborhood will die, how they will die.
7) As someone is talking to me, strangers, , I will see their past and see specifics about their childhood and the trauma that is interfering in their adulthood.
8) I see nature acting in bizarre ways
9) Wild animals follow me and interfere and have guided me away from my path to follow theirs. What i find is invaluable

The only documents I know that you might consider official are from the medical and legal field who have interacted with me. I can assure you that this is not something they want to expose themselves publicly with.

I do all of this for free. I have been asked to do this for pay but I refuse. It came free, I give it freely.
I have explored the so called psychics only to realize that I have not met a real one. The only ones I have met with ESP are a handful and not of them charge.

Nyarlathotep's picture
In SpiritESP for me happens

In Spirit - ESP for me happens in many ways...


Attach Image/Video?: 

Cognostic's picture
@In Spirit: Out of body

@In Spirit: Out of body experience.

"I know that is when you see your self from the outside of yourself alluding to the spirit sense of you looking at the real natural you."

YOU HAVE NEVER HAD THE EXPERIENCE AND YET YOU 'KNOW." No you don't "KNOW" you are flapping your gums and you should have never gone here.

"ESP for me happens in many ways:"

Prove any one of them as valid and you can be a millionaire. Until you do prove them as valid, all science, critical inquiry and skepticism is against you,. In short, put up or shut up., I have three things next to my keyboard on the left hand side of my desk. Name any two and I will be amazed.

"I have explored the so called psychics only to realize that I have not met a real one. The only ones I have met with ESP are a handful and not of them charge."


James Randi is noted for his exposure of people professing to have esp. Fakes as well as people who actually believe they have such powers. When you win your first million dollars, let us know.

You should read this article which is typical of the field.

Then read the truth

OBE in popular literature is BULLSHIT. I grew up in a time period of meditation and woo woo in Southern California. I not only did this shit but studied it. There is no more truth to any of it than what truth there is in religion. Dream cultures and OBE were normal in many civilizations. In dream cultures everyone could do it. We stopped doing it when we realized that dreams do not actually affect our daily lives. There is no causal relationship. There is nothing special about OBE. Anyone can do it. It is not mystical, spiritual, or magical in any way. It is just what your body does under specific circumstances.

In Spirit's picture


When you say I should have never gone here...........How else do you reply to someone's question? It is the normal course of conversations.

OBE has been described exactly as I have mentioned. That is only one part of it and the only part I was aware of. Your link supplied the full answer. I don't see myself leaving my body floating or travelling. It's just ...bang I'm there. It's really only an image in my head. I can't really be there. The question should be where does the image come from and how does it get in my head?

Once again according to Wikipedia: THE JAMES RANDI TEST: By April 1, 2007, only those with an already existing media profile and the backing of a reputable academic were allowed to apply for the challenge. It was hoped that the resources freed up by not having to test obscure and possibly mentally ill claimants would then be used to challenge high-profile alleged psychics and mediums such as Sylvia Browne and John Edward with a campaign in the media.[3]

Science does not have to agree with me. I have all the evidence I need. You never answered my question. What would you as an atheist do if it happened to you as I have described them happening to me?

I am well aware of how one can fool people in this field of ESP. I have even given away some of their tricks myself to people who would pay their hard earned money to these charlatans.

Cognostic's picture
@In Spirit: So instead of

@In Spirit: So instead of saying you KNOW something, why not cite your source. Then your posts don't sound dweebish. You get called on this over and over and over again and then you insist people are picking on you and whine. Stop pretending you know shit when you don't.

In Spirit's picture
No one is picking on me and

No one is picking on me and no one is whining

toto974's picture
@In Spirit

@In Spirit

Sorry for the late answer...

So you claim a lot of wonderful things, care to provide your notes? Care to provide evidence for the avoidance of a family's murder?

David Killens's picture
@In Spirit

@In Spirit

"The James Randi test is for academics and those whose works are professionally in the media. I do not qualify."

That is correct because the intent of the challenge was to debunk and embarrass con artists who preyed on the weak and gullible. But any applicants were revealed for the fakes they were, and no major con artist has taken the challenge. They know better. In later years the challenge was expanded to include anyone who had a public video, something anyone could create. So for a brief window of time you had the opportunity to take home a million dollars.

Did you win the challenge?

rat spit's picture
Fuck off Ronald. If I want to

Fuck off Ronald. If I want to hallucinate I’ll listen to my thoughts.

Cognostic's picture
@RatSpit - You want to

@RatSpit - You want to hallucinate, you will pretend you have thoughts!

Sheldon's picture
"Fuck off Ronald. If I want

"Fuck off Ronald. If I want to hallucinate I’ll listen to my thoughts."

Who is Ronald?

(edited with an apology)

Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon Re: Ronald

@Sheldon Re: Ronald

Actually, that was a legit remark from Rat Spit. The Ronald character he mentioned was a drug dealing troll who strolled in here late last night trying to peddle his illicit wares on various threads. Naturally, Ronald was unceremoniously escorted from the site, but not before a few of us got a couple of jabs in here and there. I think I may even have one or two comments to Ronald floating around somewhere... lol

Sheldon's picture
Ah I see, in that case I

Ah I see, in that case I offer my profound apologies for the misunderstanding.

arakish's picture
@ Tin-Man Re: "Ronald"

@ Tin-Man Re: "Ronald"

Uhh... I still don't see. This is the only thread besides one other I have seen Ronald mentioned. I ain't seen any posts by this Ronald, nor the escort post.

What am I missing?


Nyarlathotep's picture
Ronald was a spammer who was

Ronald was a spammer who was removed recently.


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