There is no evidence for abcense

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Leper's picture
@LostLock

@LostLock

Why would you believe in all that just because there is no evidence for it?

LostLocke's picture
If there's no evidence of

If there's no evidence of absence, why wouldn't I?

Leper's picture
That's hardly a reason to

That's hardly a reason to believe in anything, is it? So why would you?

LostLocke's picture
"Evidence of absence" is the

"Evidence of absence" is the entire basis of your thread...

Leper's picture
In a specific context. I

In a specific context. I never said you should believe in something because there is no evidence for it.

David Killens's picture
"Why would you believe in all

"Why would you believe in all that just because there is no evidence for it?"

Are you sure you are not an atheist? Because I completely support that statement.

CyberLN's picture
Leper, are you familiar with

Leper, are you familiar with the term ‘agnostic atheism’?

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Leper

@ Leper

Have you any idea how many morons have been here and ended up with the canard "Atheism is a religion"?

Jesus christ on a raft, the lack of a belief in a god or gods is not a fucking religion.

Are you shedding brain cells? You started on these forums as quite bright, misguided but bright, and then this OP followed by that remark?

Go back and suck your big toe before you say something else irretrievably stupid.

Leper's picture
@old man "Have you any idea

@old man "Have you any idea how many morons have been here and ended up with the canard "Atheism is a religion"?"

I'm not sure what I should be most disappointed about, a) that you're still here after all those morons. It must be a lengthy time, b) that you haven't understood the argument or c) that you think this in itself is a kind of an argument.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Leper

@ Leper

I'm not sure what I should be most disappointed about, a) that you're still here after all those morons. It must be a lengthy time, b) that you haven't understood the argument or c) that you think this in itself is a kind of an argument.

Your disappointment is entirely yours to own.

"Atheism is a religion" is not an argument. It is a falsity uttered by the ignorant, and theists, when they have run out of apologetics, hermeneutics and the ability to turn their thought processes into a pretzel and still not produce one shred of evidence for their deity.

They also try and reverse the burden of proof...utterly boring watching the same posts from the same religious backgrounds. That is why we laugh at you.

Oh that, and your belief in silly stories.

Leper's picture
@Old man "Atheism is a

@Old man "Atheism is a religion" is not an argument"

It can be if one elaborates but I didn't use it as one so that's beside the point. It's not my fault if the mention triggers you so.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@Leper

@Leper

Troll a loll a loll....

Leper's picture
@Old man

@Old man

If you won't stop changing the topic every time you're proven wrong, discussion gets difficult with you.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Leper

@ Leper

Troll a loll a loll....

Cognostic's picture
@LeperL :Anyone who bases

@LeperL :Anyone who bases their life on that there is no God does base their life on a belief.

How so? Explain yourself. The world around you shows you "no god." The time to believe in a god, the time to believe in anything, is when one is presented and supported with evidence.

Not believing in your god is no different than not believing in a Santa clause, not believing in Peter Pan, not believing in the Tooth Fairy, or not believing in Spiderman.

You assert "There is no evidence for absence." Well then, produce your god. We would all love to see him. All I see you doing is making another inane assertion. Your god is nowhere to be seen. You are delusional and your mind infected by the beliefs you hold to be true. Demonstrate you god.

Sheldon's picture
:Leper "Anyone who bases

:Leper "Anyone who bases their life on that there is no God does base their life on a belief. "

Nonsense, how many times are you going to rehash this lie that atheism is a belief? I am an atheist, but it's absurd to claim this is a belief, and even more absurd to claim my whole life is based on it. If theists would leave others to live their lives in peace,, and stop preaching and telling others how they should live, then I'd never even mention it.

Leper "Nevertheless, there is no evidence for abcense so... Atheism is a religion really."

There is no evidence for the absence of unicorns, so it's a particularly stupid claim, and it is as I keep pointing out an argument from ignorance fallacy, and ffs will you Google how to spell absence. Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in a deity or deities, religion is defined as the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods, so you are talking through your arse. Again I can only hope you are trolling.

Leper's picture
Wait @Grinseed, are you

Wait @Grinseed, are you saying that atheists aren't afraid of death? That would be a remarkable claim - and easily proven wrong if one finds reliable statistics on that. I think even without them we can all agree that despite some exceptions of tons of people (still exceptions) claiming they don't fear death because they're frightened to admit they do or in denial of it altogether, the majority of atheists fear death. If you disagree, let me know. Maybe we can dig up some statistics.

Grinseed's picture
Reread my post.

Reread my post.
I said it doesnt frighten me to accept reason rationality or the laws of nature, which yes includes death. I did not include any other atheists.
On that point I am not concerned so much about my death as I am about the manner of my leaving. Quietly in my sleep would be fine.
I am not so much intetested in what other atheists fear about death or not but my own observations are that not many are duly concerned as you might suspect or as concerned as much as theists who can never be sure they will be going to parsdise or hell.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Grinseed

@ Grinseed

With you champ, I do not fear death. There are ways I fear going...one is in screaming agony being kept alive against my wishes by some theist doctor.

Leper's picture
"It only scares theists who

"It only scares theists who have not accepted their natural mortality or the prospect of losing their egos."

How should I understand this then?

Cognostic's picture
@Leper: RE: "Fear of death."

@Leper: RE: "Fear of death."

A new study examines all robust, available data on how fearful we are of what happens once we shuffle off this mortal coil. They find that ATHEISTS are among those least afraid of dying...and, perhaps not surprisingly, the VERY RELIGIOUS.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2017-03-24-study-who-least-afraid-death

University of Oxford paints a more complicated picture. It shows that the very religious and atheists are the groups who do not fear death as much as much as those in-between in a paper published in the journal, Religion, Brain and Behavior.

David Killens's picture
@Leper

@Leper

" the majority of atheists fear death."

No me, I have stared death in it's face, and did not fear it. My concern was that I would leave my loved ones without enough financial support. And of course, that they would miss me. That is my sole concern.

In the fall of 2010 I had an operation go wrong, and three day`s later underwent emergency surgery because I was in a very bad state. I knew my odds were less than 50/50. As I lay on the gurney being wheeled into the operating room, my thoughts were with my loved ones, and all I could think was "well, if I wake up, the surgery was a success".

Sheldon's picture
Leper "the majority of

Leper "the majority of atheists fear death. If you disagree, let me know. Maybe we can dig up some statistics."

It's a meaningless claim until you demonstrate some objective evidence, especially as you've started by using a poisoning of the well fallacy, by claiming atheists lie about it. One would love to know how you claim to know they're lying, but I think we've seen enough of this kind of dishonest rhetoric by religious apologists.

I am not afraid of being dead, it's a ludicrous fear to me. The dying part might be long drawn out and painful experience, so that is a different matter. I no more fear Hell, or the wrath of fictional deities, than I fear being trampled by unicorns, or cursed by a genie.

Jo's picture
@ Grinseed

@ Grinseed

"After death the same thing happens to good and bad atheists as well as to good and bad theists. We cease to be."
Can you provide objective and falsifiable evidence that can be tested for this claim?
Is it a belief?

Grinseed's picture
Jo, you know I can't, anymore

Jo, you know I can't, anymore than you can prove anything about your faith from objective, falsifiable evidence.
Jeez, I swear, you are starting to sound like an atheist.

So what if it is a belief?

I tire of the theists claiming specific meaning of words. A belief doesn't have to be based in religion. I believe in many things, but not your gods. I believe in many things from a lifetime's rational observation of the natural world. I take evidence from things that I at least know are present.

And therefore, nothing compels me to believe the dead can be resurrected bodily or spiritually. Nothing I have experienced in nature remotely suggests there is an afterlife nor does anything suggest why there should be one in the first place. My position is rationally sound. It requires no extraneous explanations or claims.

It is only theists, promoting the dearly held faith of their books, written thousands of years ago, by ignorant, arrogant, sometimes compassionate, sometimes deranged, men, sermonising and seeking impossible protection from all things irrational, fearfully imagined and physically absent, in exchange for servitude and self debasement, theists, who want to be assured they aren't really going to die.

Jo's picture
@ Grinseed

@ Grinseed

"Jo, you know I can't, anymore than you can prove anything about your faith from objective, falsifiable evidence."

If I take your statement to its logical conclusion, would it be something like this?
A believers or non-believers claims about Gods existence or non existence cannot be proved by objective, falsifiable evidence.

David Killens's picture
@Jo

@Jo

"After death the same thing happens to good and bad atheists as well as to good and bad theists. We cease to be."
Can you provide objective and falsifiable evidence that can be tested for this claim?
Is it a belief?"

Such an observation is based on results. Someone dies, they stop. Jo, can you provide evidence that contradicts this observation?

Jo's picture
@ David Killens

@ David Killens

Yes, their body stops, but is that all there is to us humans?

If there is a door (death) that no one knows what is on the other side.
If you go through the door you cannot come back.
Some say there is non-existence on the other side of the door.
Some say there is a heaven.
It is all speculation or subjective conclusions. Or Beliefs.

Just because I cannot provide evidence of what is on the other side of the door doesn't mean I am wrong.
No more than you not being able to provide evidence for what you say is not on the other side of the door.

Cognostic's picture
@Jo: RE: "Just because I

@Jo: RE: "Just because I cannot provide evidence of what is on the other side of the door doesn't mean I am wrong."

MORE IMPORTANTLY - it does not mean you are right. Using your logic I can make any fucking assertion at all and I could be right. The other side could be ruled by benevolent ninja turtles and we are all forced to learn martial arts. My assertion, in fact any assertion I make, carries the exact same weight as your moronic assertion. So how do we know who is right?

We look for facts and evidence. (I know this is not self evident to you.) When there are no facts of evidence supporting a position WE ARE NOT JUSTIFIED IN SUPPORTING IT. You have no justification what so ever for your moronic beliefs about anything after death. NONE!

The time to believe something is when you have evidence for it. YOU CAN NOT KNOW MORE THAN ME. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. YOU CAN ONLY MAKE INANE ASSERTIONS AND LIVE IN UNSUBSTANTIATED DELUSION.

Jo's picture
@ Cognostic

@ Cognostic

"THERE IS NO EVIDENCE."
If you want to look at it with a very narrow and wooden view, you get that conclusion.
One could look at nature and conclude their must be some mind behind it.
Some purpose echoing through our lives and the universe.

They longing for justice, love, and paradise.
Hitler did not get away with it.
Poor characters with rich bank accounts, and rich characters with poor bank accounts get reconciled.

You say wishful thinking,
I say logical conclusion based on an open and comprehensive evaluation.

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