Is there even a point in trying to change, instruct, argue with theists? I’ve only ever had success in changing anyone’s opinion when they themselves are already in a state of questioning about their faith. And if it is just going to lead to endless debate that nobody can prove what’s the point? I am an atheist but it doesn’t particularly matter to me what someone else believes even though deep down I wish nobody believed in fairytales like God. I have somewhat given up and now whenever I hear nonsense there’s a sense of wrongness when I say the truth. I don’t want to ruin all my social interactions with friends and family just because I can take criticism and they can’t. Jus my thoughts and struggles with being an Atheist with few Atheist peers in my life. Also I’m new here, hello world.
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The point is to lash out at lies, absurdity, mythology, and harmful beliefs that are accepted as being real.
The goal is to accept as many real things as possible and reject those that are not real so as to enhance one's ability to function best in the world around us.
Look at it this way. You wake up and head out of the house in the morning. The first person you see on the street looks at you quizzically and asks, "Why are you having such a bad day?" You tell them you are not having a bad day and go on your way. The next person you see asks you the same question. "Why are you having such a bad day." You again explain that you are not having a bad day, You feel find.
You run into a third person and they ask you "Why are you having such a bad day."
"What in the hell are you talking about? I am having a fine day. Why would you ask such a question."
"Sheesh. I'm sorry. I was only asking." and you both go on your way.
You reach the corner store and the cashier sees you enter. She immediately asks you why you are having such a bad day? "I'm not having a bad day. I wish people would stop asking me that. I feel fine!"
"Okay, if you say so...."
You get your groceries and walk out of the store. You bump into a friend. "Why are you having such a bad day?" he asks. "FUCK YOU " you replay and stomp off.
You get home and your roommate sees you. "Whats up with you?" "Everywhere I go people keep asking me the same damn question. I want to kill someone."
"Sorry to hear that, what are they asking you and why do you think that is????"
Every time you say something you are chipping away at their confidence. You do not have to change their mind to be a part of the process that will eventually lead them to seeing things as they are.
Ah I see, it’s very difficult to accept a life of being shunned by the vast majority in order to feel at peace with your own religious views. I feel that the United States is not a very safe place for atheists. I would like to debate with theists and maybe change minds I just may feel better about it all if I had any atheist friends who care as much as I do about the malicious lie that billions around the globe espout. I’ve recently been looking for atheist or agnostic groups to fill that gap but I like what Richard Dawkins says, it’s like herding cats to get atheists to group together.
Atheism really isn't a group phenomena. Many oppose the idea of Atheist groups as they appear too much like church groups. Still there are science lectures and the like to attend. One place to look is "Meet Up." If there isn't an atheist organization near you, you can just start your own group. Atheists meet at this coffee shop at 6PM for discussion on ???? Have a topic. "Debunking Christian Apologetics." See if anyone shows.
Every group starts one member at a time.
Is there a point in lashing out at religion?
Yes there is. Read this What I Believe
rmfr
For me it is not about one side "winning" and the other not, but rather educating anyone with an open mind. Yes, there are many who will not listen, but regardless, I just keep putting the message out.
In fact my agenda is not aimed directly at attacking religion, but attacking any institution with a critical and inquiring mind. My sole goal is the pursuit of the truth.
The results are out there. Each year people are waking up and each year there are more open atheists. I doubt my single voice will be effective, but our collective voices do make a noise, a noise many theists hear.
Hey there, Chicken! Welcome to The Almost-Nearly-But-Not-Quite-So-Definitely Greatest Show on Earth! (Otherwise known as The AR.) A pleasure having you with us! Jump on in and start shaking your tail feathers! As you may have noticed, there are plenty of targets of opportunity hopping about on the boards lately. Take aim and fire!
As to your question about "lashing out at religion", please allow me to give you my take on the matter. For starters, we are here on an Atheist site primarily for the purpose of supporting other atheists and sharing thoughts and experiences among ourselves. Fair enough, right? However, we do welcome and encourage theists to stop in to ask questions and learn more about what we truly are. And we absolutely love it when that very RARE theist comes in with legitimate questions and a sincere desire to learn more about atheism. Sadly, though - as I said - those are very rare creatures. And with the exception of three or four regular theists who have been with us for quite some time, the remaining theists who pop in are either "drive-by" posters or ones who like to preach and spout a bunch of ridiculous nonsense as if they believe they are going to convert everybody here and make us "see the divine light." Hallelujah, brothers and sisters! Can I get an "AMEN!"?
Now, keep in mind those folks come here by their own choice. Nobody is forcing them to join this site (so far as I know), and I'm pretty sure they didn't stroll up in here by accident thinking this was some type of religious site. (After all, it DOES have the word "Atheist" in the name.) Therefore, when they get in here acting ridiculous and making outlandish claims and insisting that we are doomed and going to hell for not believing in their particular deity....? Well, speaking strictly for myself, that is what I consider to be play-time!... *mischievous grin*... Basically, it just becomes amusing and cheap entertainment for me. Some of them are not very challenging, though, so they can get boring rather quickly. Still, I take my fun where I can find it.
The thing is, I am very much like you in that I honestly do not give a single drop of rat piss what anybody else believes. Granted, I may not agree with the belief, and I may even think a person is bat-shit crazy for a particular belief. But as long as they are not harming anybody with those beliefs and not trying to force others to share those beliefs, then I really do... not... care. Live and let live, man. No skin off my nose, as long as they keep the crazy to themselves. But when they come on here being all self-righteous and sometimes even downright stupid, then they are fair game for whatever comes their way, as far as I am concerned. Look at it this way.... I do not visit any theist sites. Why should I? But if I were to go to one and start acting like an ass and calling all of them crazy and retarded for believing in their religious nonsense, I would absolutely expect to have my ass handed to me on a silver platter and then be escorted from the site in a most unceremonious manner. And they would have every right to do exactly that.
Now, for the "real world" problem. I live in the middle of the Bible Belt. Grew up in it, as a matter of fact. "Religion religion everywhere, and not a brain to think." Thankfully, however, I live in a fairly isolated area with only one neighbor. He and his family are cool, though. Plus, I have very few family and friends, and we rarely interact. Still, whenever I go out in public to the store or any other locations, I am totally surrounded by religion and religious people. And you know what?... It does not bother me in the slightest. If anything, I actually get a good chuckle or laugh out of it sometimes. Very difficult to go anywhere without being told, "God bless you," or, "I'll pray for you,", or, "God is good," or any number of other such thoughtful and caring remarks. I usually just smile and nod my head and say, "Thank you," or whatever the appropriate response might be to the remark made. Like you said, why make a fuss about it? They are saying it either as a sincere form of caring and concern, or they are saying it out of sheer reflex and conditioning due to how they were raised. Either way, they mean no harm. No need for me to be an ass about it.
Anyway, that's my two and a half cents worth. Again, welcome aboard. Try not to get your feathers too ruffled out there. *chuckle*
@ Tin-Man
Loved the diatribe. Very excellent treatise.
One point, I was always different on the "God bless you" by saying "I hope not." On the "I'll pray for you" I always said "I'll think about it." On the "God is good" I always said, "Have you really read the Bible?" I always loved throwing those little "Hmm..."s that would make people think. I guess, even in my happy go-lucky days, I just was not going to accept anything they had to say about religion, no matter what it is. I guess in a way, I was an ass. But as I said, sometimes it made a person ask me for more information about why. Even helped to deconvert a few. So I guess in a way I was not a true ass...
rmfr
I’m always here for you, Chicken. However, note that my God is the OverLord. He is not the God of Abraham. His closest companion is The Evil One and “I will smite you with a vengeance from the seat of my living room. I will cast a curse on your immortal soul. I will rip asunder all that you believe until you are nothing more than a pathetic husk of a being - a soulless, abandoned being in the heart of an abysmal crevasse of evil and suffering. But I only do it because I am full of love.” Thus speaks the Evil One. Amen.
@rat spit
What objective evidence do you have that your overlord or evil one exist?
I ask Him and He replies to me. Why? Are you calling me a liar?
Because you utter not one word of truth?
rmfr
I appreciate the welcome, I do prefer having a community of like-minded people over being alone in all this. I’d like real life friends who are skeptics as well but I’ll just have to slowly find them. I just can’t stand the misguided nonsense people are prone to buying into, not even taking into account religious doctrine. Things like spirit, supernatural entities, conspiracy theories, and homeopathic remedies. Living in California I feel like I’m surrounded by idiots sometimes but what is there to do about it? I can have civilized discussion about it but I still lose friends even with that. It’s rather all about freedom of believing whatever you want and nobody can disagree or else they are a fascist! Haha oh well.
Edit- not sure what you mean rat spit but I’ll just take it as drunken rambling and give you a free pass.
It's best to take all of Rat Spirits posts as drunken ramblings. Apparently the Overloard speaks in metaphors so as to Confuse the non-believers/
Yes. Yes. Idiots. I too am surrounded by idiots. Indeed. The drunken ramblings of a mad man. No. No, no, no. If you want to debate with someone who believes in a higher power there is no one beside me who believes in a power higher than the power I believe in. And so we can debate.
RAT SPANK: "Yes. Yes. Idiots. I too am." (Translation)
I am looking for a Dean Martin to rein in my inner Jerry Lewis.
LOL. I don’t know what that means, but I’ve heard those names before and I’m going to assume it was quite witty.
@Rat Spit Re: "I don’t know what that means, but I’ve heard those names before and I’m going to assume it was quite witty."
LMAO... Oh, dear lord! You just showed your age (or lack thereof), young man!... LOL....
@ Tin-Man
Damn. You got your laughter under control before I could...
***soft chuckling in background suddenly becoming very loud...***
rmfr
What’s there to debate? What good could your religion be if it supports an evil god? I’ve already lost interest, haha.
K. It’s not a religion. It’s a human condition. To be one with the OverLord is mandatory. He’s not evil. The Evil One is evil. But the OverLord does get the last say when you go to Hell at the end of life (if you go to Hell; that’s not set in stone).
It's a human condition like herpes or being 16 and knowing it all.
How am I supposed to know about your pseudo-cult of probably only one person? I still don’t really care to learn more about it a it seems rather ridiculous. The OverLord (one word mind you) is displeased with me! XD
Well. If you won’t take it seriously, I won’t engage. I don’t need converts. Yeah. One word. Are you a grammar anus?
I think I am beginning to like this October Lord thing.
Coverts now get 1 free admission to a movie of their choice at their nearest theatre. Bring a friend.
Can I convert and de-convert repeatedly to get lots of tickets?
@Rat Spit Re: "Coverts now get 1 free admission to a movie of their choice at their nearest theatre. Bring a friend."
Ssssss-Weeeeet!.... FREE movie tickets? Hell to the yeah! The OverLord has MY vote!.... *leaning in close and whispering*.... And - hey - just between you and me, I don't think The Evil One is really such a bad guy. I think he's just misunderstood.... *standing back straight*.... Oh! Any chance you could throw in free popcorn and a drink as a bonus?
Well, theoretically it would be impossible to return to the Atheist “God remains quiet” position after learning of His existence. His voice. But, in practise one must go about life in the normal way, assuming that all we hear in our minds belongs to our “self” (including the repeat of our favourite or least favourite songs - or what have you). So “forgetting” about the Evil One and the OverLord will get you a free popcorn and soft drink of your choice. Sorry. That’s the best We can do.
@Rat Spit Re: Free Popcorn
YES! Awesome! (That shit is more expensive than the tickets.)
Hello and welcome. It depends what you mean by point I suppose. Religions make some fairly strident claims and contain some fairly repugnant doctrine. I think it my moral duty to challenge pernicious teachings. That aside I don't think any idea ought ever to go completely unchallenged, we dont allow this anywhere else so why should religious ideas be treated any differently.
As to whether people will change, well we live in an age where information can be shared as never before, and though it typifies religious indoctrination that there will always be some people who are so intranisigent that no amount offacts orevidence will ever getthem to question their faith based beliefs, it's not true of everyone.
It can be frustrating of course to have to endlessly point out the same flawed reasoning and arguments, only for an apologist to ignore what you've said and then repeat their claim or argument as if you haven't even responded.
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