# Time is a circular eternal loop created by God!

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Time is a circular eternal loop created by God!

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More nonsense. Your "logic" never makes sense as you use infinity in error.

There is no such thing as a "number" of events in an infinite regress, just as there is no largest number in an infinite set, both by definition.

The rest is a bunch of non-sequiturs and logical fallacies.

But what is an infinite regress in time if it is not a sequence of time-ordered events to which we can give number?

Dan - But what is an infinite regress in time if it is not a sequence of time-ordered events to which we can give number?

Think about that bold part and maybe you'll see the problem.

You deny mathematics describes reality? There is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. If you can't do it in math, its not logical. If its not logical, it does not occur in reality.

An infinite regress of events is not logical... there is no first member in the sequence to give the rest of the sequence substance.

Dan - You deny mathematics describes reality?...An infinite regress of events is not logical... there is no first member in the sequence to give the rest of the sequence substance.

In mathematics it is possible to have a infinite series of points which does not have a starting point (or as you said, does not have a first member).

Nyarlathotep - Then the starting point is before all possible starting points. So its not a starting point.

What I mean is that implies the existence of a number smaller than any number. Which is a contradiction (can't be a number AND smaller than all numbers).

Points are equivalent to real numbers so same argument applies.

So you keep insisting nothing can be infinite, so what created your deity?

Magic numbers anyone???

@Sheldon Re: "Magic numbers anyone???"

42.

I think God lives beyond time. So beyond cause and effect. So everything in time needs cause and effect, but things beyond time don't.

So God would be eternal, uncreated.

Helllllooooooo Mr. Ignorant! No time - no beginning or ending of a thought or an action. No time - no point in which your god can exist. No time - your god does not get to move a finger from point 'A' to point 'B.' No time - NO FRIGGING GOD.

1. The number of events in an infinite regress is > any number
2. Thats a contradiction (can’t be both a number and > any number)
3. Making up magic numbers is not allowed (can break any theory if magic is admissible)
4. So there can't be an infinite regress of events into the past
5. So there must have been a first event
6. What caused the first event? Can't be an empty stretch of time (no cause)
7. So there must be a start of time (caused by the end of time the Big Crunch)
8. So time must be real

Only uses cause and effect as an axiom and ties in nicely with the Big Bang.

I am attempting to follow your logic, to give you a chance to prove your hypothesis. But your behavior and evasion is leading me to the conclusion that you are just using the special pleading argument, and all of it falls back on your personal faith. And since faith is not a path to the truth, your entire effort falls flat and is proven null and void.

The only way you can convince me it to stop being evasive and answer the question.

Staring with the Einstein’s equation:

E = mc² ∕ √ (1 - v² ∕ c²)
Rearranging to:
m = E × √ (1 - v² ∕ c²) / c²

So time (in the v term) determines mass. So something in the universe must be aware of time else it could not assign a mass. So time must be real. Time is not just motion.

@ Dan

You just proved you know nothing about math except simple Algebra. The variable "v" is for velocity. In those equations, the Mass Energy Equivalence and the Lorentz Factor, there is NO time variable. Besides, the Lorentz Factor does NOT have the square root radical.

Ultimately, you are just trying to pass off a bunch of bullshit woo woo.

rmfr

velocity = distance / time

For what it is worth: there is an extremely subtle issue with his rearrangement: it demands that m = 0. But I think it would be unfair to expect someone to spot it. If anyone is up for a challenge, I'll give a hint:

what happens when v = c ?

@ Nyarlathotep

Yeah already spotted that. I was just trying to get him to see the stupidity of his fallacious math.

Uhm... Let's see. v = c. Mass basically converts directly to energy using the E = mc^2 equation since mass becomes "undefined." Or, more properly known in the physics world, mass becomes "infinite," thus converts directly into energy. That is what is know as the Great Light Speed Barrier. When using the proper equations, it has been proven that any mass can travel at subluminal velocities AND at superluminal velocities. However, it just cannot travel exactly at the luminal velocity. Weird, huh?

I even used Mathematica to plot that curve while in college. Wish I still had it. Using that curve, as mass approaches luminal velocity, mass becomes infinite. Once through the Luminal Barrier, and as velocity continued to go into greater superluminal velocities, mass forever asymptotically approached back to being the same mass at rest. Really wild physics.

rmfr

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Dan - If actual infinity is a number...So actual infinity is not a number

As far as I noticed, you were the only one suggesting that it is.

@ Dan

Infinity is NOT magic. Only to self-retarded mind. Just by all your posts, I know the highest math you have ever had was Simple Algebra which I learned in Third Grade.

rmfr

Can you link the peer reviewed journal that published your claim based on Einstein's seminal equation?

Of course you fucking can't....come on Dan ffs, do you think us all fools...

Oh yeah, of course you do.

Tell me Dan, as I'm curious, do you really find these risible word games that stack pure assumption on top of assumption compelling? It's nonsense Dan. Do you not see your own bias is making you closed minded and blinkered towards a single biased goal?

Not one word in that sentence evidences a deity, and you could lift god right out of that last sentnece and put anything you want in there, then define it into existence as you are trying to do. Please explain how the sentence would be any less valid with an eternal, timeless, all powerful pixie? Which deity btw, as that risible claim gets you no closer to Jesus Yahweh or Allah than it does to Thor Zeus or Apollo?

William Lane Craig has a lot to answer for. If there are cries against humanity, there ought to be such a thing as crimes against human reason, and WLC would be in the Hague.

Time having a start is strongly in favour of a deity IMO. It smacks of design and intervention.

Time is a sequence. A temporal sequence needs a start to be fully defined. With infinite time, if we number the moments of time, then the number of moments elapsed must be greater than any number. But thats a contradiction; can't be a number and greater than any number. Time logically needs a start.

@ Dan

"Time having a start is strongly in favour of a deity IMO. It smacks of design and intervention."

Do you have ANY, and I mean ANY, OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to back up this bullshit woo woo. Why must you be a William Lane Craig fanatic? Are you hoping to go about on the debate circuit to have your bullshit debunked by other professional orators? Hell, we are all amateurs here compared to other like Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sean Carroll, etc., yet we are able to completely shred your bullshit.

"Time is a sequence. A temporal sequence needs a start to be fully defined. With infinite time, if we number the moments of time, then the number of moments elapsed must be greater than any number. But thats a contradiction; can't be a number and greater than any number. Time logically needs a start."

Can you prove Time is a sequence? Us humans apply a sequence to time as framework to better understand it. However, we still do not know exactly what time is other than a "change occurring in comparison to a previous state."

How do you know Time even had a beginning? How do you know Time is not infinite? How do you know whether the universe has existed eternally? How do you know Time is even logical?

You have already stated your hypothesis of Singularity — Universal Expansion — Universal Compression — Singularity — etc. This is a hypothesis I also presuppose and understand. However, even I cannot prove it. However, I also believe (for lack of a better word) it is a possibility.

Additionally, ∞ > ℜ is true. Regardless of your bullshit woo woo.

rmfr

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@ Dan

@arakish You need to read the OP I already proved time has a start. Once again:

1. Axiom: events are caused by events
2. So with infinite time, events stretch back indefinitely
3. So the number of events in an infinite regress of time is > any number
4. Thats a contradiction (can’t be both a number and > any number)
5. Making up magic numbers is not allowed (can break any theory if magic is admissible)
6. There must be a first event.
7. There cannot be an empty stretch of time before the first event as what would cause the first event?
8. So time must have a start
9. The end of time is linked to the start of time

You have proved nothing except you have do not understand math, physics, English, logic. I am going to attempt to be as simple-minded as you appear to be. However, please understand I have a much greater advance educational background than you. My mind no longer thinks simple-mindedly. But, I shall endeavor the attempt.

1. Axiom: events are caused by events

False. An "event" is caused by an effect. However, there are some causes that have NO effect. Such as quantum particles that have been shown to pop in and out of our reality. I am going to have to find that Neil deGrasse Tyson video where he explains why this possibly happens. I post the link later at the end of the thread when I find it.

2. So with infinite time, events stretch back indefinitely

True. How do you know Time is not infinite?

3. So the number of events in an infinite regress of time is > any number

True.

4. Thats a contradiction (can’t be both a number and > any number)

False. ∞ > ℜ

5. Making up magic numbers is not allowed (can break any theory if magic is admissible)

True. No magic involved. You just do not comprehend the concept of "infinity." There were a few physics equations I have come across that cannot be solved without "infinity."

6. There must be a first event.

False. If Time is infinite, there is no first event. Only what our feable minds can understand as a first event.

7. There cannot be an empty stretch of time before the first event as what would cause the first event?

False. Time is not empty if it is infinite. Prove Time is NOT infinite.

8. So time must have a start

False. Only us feable minded apes apply a start to Time so we can better understand it. I have already said that we do not fully comprehend what Time is other than "a change as compared to a prior state."

9. The end of time is linked to the start of time

False.

You seriously need to stop trying to use the fallacious logic used by your dumb ass daddy, William Lane Craig. How can you ever hope to debate with someone unless they are stupider than you and your daddy?

rmfr

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@ Dan

See? You do not understand math, physics, logic, English. As Cognostic said, when are you going to realize you so full of your own bullshit that you cannot smell the bullshit you spew from between your lips?