The transgender debate in sports

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Randomhero1982's picture
Right, I think we should nip

Right, I think we should nip this conversation in the butt as it's not leading to the sort of dialogue I was aiming for when I started it off and has descended quite badly.

I just want to clear up that I have zero problems with people identifying however they want...
I really couldn't care if you only use biological terminology or identify as a mixed race, gender fluid mountain panda... I couldnt give a shit personally.. have at it.

I suppose the point was simply I personally didn't agree with people of particular biological sex partaking in sports of a sex they biologically are not.

Why? Just because I want biological women to have the right to compete on a fair and level playing field where they have a good a chance as anyone.

I want to see them excel and get some of the spot light that is more often then not put upon mens sports.

That was all I disagreed with.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Random and SfT

@ Random and SfT

In my martial art, Kendo. Male and Female always participate on an equal footing. There is no allowances made for sex or gender, or age come to that.
Same as Jo-Do, you fight or you do not participate. It is true of Aikido and Naginaka.
Japanese archery ( Kyudo) on land and horseback is non segregated

These are some of the sports where I have fought at world level and been defeated by women. If women want to participate in non segregated sports, if trans people want to compete in non segregated sports, fine by me.
If you want segregation by weight or sex, 'transness', levels of hormones, or age,even the number of functioning limbs, also fine by me. It is none of my fucking business. Let the governing bodies and membership of the sports sort it out.

Having seen a well ranked six foot 100 kilo man, wearing full armour, reduced to tears having been soundly beaten by a 3rd Kyu, 9 year old girl after a full on bout you gotta say "loved the fuck out of that fight".

I have watched SfT's replies closely. There seems no tolerance, no empathy, not attempt at examining his own position. A work of misogyny, intolerance and boorishness spiced by unadmitted religious bigotry. The problems with NSfT's position is it looks he is advocating for segregation in all satisfy some religious tenet, dressed up (like the lipstick on a pig) as 'fairness'. Well fuck that.

Randomhero1982's picture
@Old Man

@Old Man

Sure, but would you also agree that Kendo along with wing Chun and BBJ do not completely rely on physicality?

Lets say we ignore weight and biological sex and put in say Cris cyborg who is roughly 5ft8 vs Mike Tyson who's 5ft10.

Long retired but hed still be too much.

Ok, so we account for weight, would you put her in a ring with Terrence Crawford? Manny Paquiao? Sean Porter? Or Keith Thurman? Bare in mind she is 145lb and the aforementioned are 140lb boxers.

It would be a mismatch of epic proportions.

It really requires a carefull look.

At a sparring level mixing is vital and something I promote in my teaching of Wing Chun, we have a mixed sex class and a roughly 60/40 ratio of men to women.

I also run a class at the school gymnasium for kids who are bullied at the school and again, I promote sparring across the spectrum.

It's the best way to improve your skills.

Perhaps in the event of the original post with the trans athletes I wonder if making open events is a way forward. A race meet for all genders, sexes, abilities and so forth.

No medals etc... just simply a way to train and experience running with your piers?!

I dunno, it's tough.

In ending I also hope the address to both SfT and I isn't conflating our two separate points of views.
Mine is merely on what i think is fair and unfair.

Nothing more and nothing less.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Random

@ Random

Mate I agree, as I said I dont give a flying fuck, segregation is up to the various sport bodies. I agree there maybe should be "open . events" then you could also have segregated events by weight,age, grade or whatever criteria you wish.

I was not clear, it is not necessary, in my view to discriminate or segregate by sex alone, there are hundreds of criteria that would give the same result of fairness for the competitor. I fact, discrimination by sex alone is probably the most unfair of the criteria.

The comments at SfT were directed wholly and solely towards his misogynist arse, not you my friend. I respect your opinions and love your writing!

Randomhero1982's picture
I'm with you there chap, a

I'm with you there chap, a great example of this is with 'park runs' that go on where I live... everyone turns up on the weekend and does a 5km run.

Everyone gets fit and healthy, with no biological or competitive baggage to ruin it.

I think perhaps discrimination is slightly harsh as the intention is to offer a reasonable playing field for all to have chance to succeed.

If the Olympics had no segregation of biological sex then there would be almost no need for female athletes to turn up.
Just look at the stats and males outperform by some distance in almost all events.

And I like watching womens events so I'd be happy for it to stay, they just need to be clear and say this isn't gender... this is biological sex.

And thanks for the clearing up, I appreciate your posts too along with everyone else.
I like the fact we are all different with different thought processes, I just try to be honest and balanced.

If my view that religion is a crock of utter bollocks under the lens of science (and common bloody sense) and that is my method for reasoning, then I must apply it in other realms.. I.e. competitve sports.


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