Truths, facts, and opinion!

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mykcob4's picture
Truths, facts, and opinion!

There has been some debate about "truths", namely Caitlin told Sheldon that his truths are not everybody's truths.
Let's get things straight!

the quality or state of being true.
"he had to accept the truth of her accusation"
synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candor, honesty; More
that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
noun: the truth
"tell me the truth"
synonyms: what actually happened, the case, so; More
a fact or belief that is accepted as true.
plural noun: truths
"the emergence of scientific truths"

Truth is just truth it isn't possessed!

a thing that is indisputably the case.
"the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas"
synonyms: reality, actuality, certainty; More
used in discussing the significance of something that is the case.
noun: the fact that
"the real problem facing them is the fact that their funds are being cut"
a piece of information used as evidence or as part of a report or news article.
synonyms: detail, piece of information, particular, item, specific, element, point, factor, feature, characteristic, ingredient, circumstance, aspect, facet; information
"every fact was double-checked"

Facts are not possessed either. they are just facts cold and hard!

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance"
synonyms: belief, judgment, thought(s), (way of) thinking, mind, (point of) view, viewpoint, outlook, attitude, stance, position, perspective, persuasion, standpoint; More
the beliefs or views of a large number or majority of people about a particular thing.
"the changing climate of opinion"
an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.
"I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved"

The old saying goes that everyone can have an opinion. The problem is that opinions can be wrong and often are. In Caitlin's case, she believes that "sin" is real which is her opinion but it is not fact.
The fact is as Sheldon presented it to her that sin is a concept not proven. Caitlin dismissed that glaring fact with HER opinion.

And that is the case of all religious apologists. They accept THEIR opinion and dismiss fact. They revise history, and facts to fit their opinion and dismiss REAL facts. When presented with the REAL facts, they often respond those are YOUR facts, not mine, as if there alternatives to facts.
It is just one more failed tactic by religious apologists!

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Caitlins tactics, Like Breezy

Caitlins tactics, Like Breezy's denials are widely used by the right wing of politics, Holocaust Deniers etc especially Fox news with their phrase of 'Alternative Facts"

Well said Mykcob!

ʝօɦռ 6IX ɮʀɛɛʐʏ's picture
Breezy's denials

Breezy's denials

mykcob4's picture
@ Oldman

@ Oldman
Yes FOX and the right wingnuts all tell lies that they claim to be "alternative facts." The whole "Fake news" bullshit is an attempt to distract from REAL facts and replace them with lies.
Conservaturds and religious fucktards do it endlessly!
Here is a small list of what I am talking about. Big Tobacco denying the link between them and cancer.
Fossil fuel producers denying any responsibility for pollution and denying global warming.
Trump apologists denying things that Trump has done and said.
The claim that trickle down economics actually works!
The lies about "welfare queens"
The countless lies by religious people especially christians.
Flat Earth
Young Earth
Evolution being false
Bible being historically accurate
Blah blah blah...!!!
Conservaturds and religious idiots do nothing but lie, obfuscate, revise history, use pseudo-science, to twist the truth to fit their narrative.

David Killens's picture
I follow Dillahunty's example

I follow Dillahunty's example. I seek out the truth, no matter where it leads me. For him, his search began with attempting to justify the bible. The end of that journey led him to realize that the bible was a book full of conflicting hokum.

Be it politics, religion, or whatever, too many people first cling to a dogma, and then attempt to fit information into their personal beliefs. Whatever they can cherrypick they loudly proclaim, and sweep everything else under the carpet, as in the famous example, "it's only a theory" kind of crap.

Everyone can be a victim of this mindset, so we must each conduct rigorous and critical self-examinations and be intellectually honest with ourselves. This is a journey many are loath to embark upon, because it takes them far outside of their comfort zone and the things that reassure them.

So no matter who you are, and what your opinion, the search for "truth" is a difficult and sometimes painful one. But it leads you away from fallacies, lies, and being dishonest not only with others, but yourself.

But disinformation and confusing the topic is a very old tactic. When one party begins to suspect that their position is untenable, they search for any means to deny having to admit the truth.

One old story is how the Templars were treated. They are the most zealous Christians, and their individuals did practice poverty, chastity, and other biblical demands. But they were also the shock troops for the crusades. Most of the participants in the crusades were a disorganized rabble. But the Templars were an elite fighting unit, arguably the best in the world. SAS with swords.

But they grew too rich and powerful, and after the Christians were driven out of the holy land after the Siege of Acre in 1291, their prestige was diminished because the reason for their existence was to capture and hold the holy lands. It began with King Philip of France. His nation was nearly bankrupt, and he also feared the power of the Templars. The Teutonic Knights had pretty well seized all power in Prussia, and Philip feared the Templars would do the same in eastern France. So he decided to eliminate them, control all power, and also steal their vast riches. And Philip's first step was disinformation and lies about the Templars, truth was swept under the carpet.

And sure enough, on Friday the 13th, October of 1307, he moved against them. It is a sad tale of using lies and disinformation to seize power and riches, and is also something to remember every Friday the 13th, that devout Christians can be the victim of other ruthless Christians because the truth was buried under the lies.

Cognostic's picture
You could add, "Wild

You could add, "Wild Assertion" to the list as well as "Delusion." That which many regard as factual or true are simple dumbass assertions based on delusional thinking.

bigbill's picture
Christian apologist don`t

Christian apologist don`t give there opinion as much as getting it from Jesus as the new testament states. He is my truth and the apologist truth. Jesus was and is the truth of GOD. God is the purveyor of objective moral values. DO NOT KILL, DO NOT STEAL. ETC. ETC.Do you find anything wrong with these moral qualities, In fact do you find anything wrong with any of the ten commandments. Do you believe that you shall kill? etc etc. Do you believe that you should steal? These are not subjective but come from outside of us, so they could only be objective. Only God cares how you live your life he comes from an objective stance.

mykcob4's picture

Do you even know what "apologist" means? It means LIAR!
Morals are NOT objective as well proven over and over!
You are nothing but a troll Billy. An uneducated troll!

bigbill's picture
Tell me then who is correct

Tell me then who is correct when you disagree on something in particular. I say that the light is green and proceed to go ahead driving, While you say that you don`t have to wait for your red light to turn green. Who is right then considering both of your opinions? You have to have an objective view point. WE can`t say that how we think or feel is correct, We have to turn to the bible which is the truth. We have to have objectivity here. I`m surprised by now that you don`t comprehend that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mykcob4's picture
What a stupid scenario. If

What a stupid scenario. If the light is green, IT'S FUCKING GREEN. And BTW YOU don't speak for me asshole. You don't know WHAT the fuck I want to say until I FUCKING SAY IT you arrogant piece of shit!

bigbill's picture
Wow are you MAD tonight What

Wow are you MAD tonight What profanity do you realize what your saying here and how you come across to the other people; You are trying to garner up attention. But going about it in the wrong way.Why don`t you please put aside the profanity and try to love me as your brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time that I post a response to you I get all of this .But I never have used one word of profanity to you. So please deal with me in a civilized way. You state that you want the best for humanity so before looking at everybody else take a good deep look at yourself. And ask yourself why am I cussing that person out? Why am I using this profanity? IT starts with you to make things better.

Tin-Man's picture
@FIG Re: Profanity

@FIG Re: Profanity

Hey, FIG, I much prefer Myk's profanity over your lame attempts at insults-disguised-as-civility. Hate to break the bad news to you, buddy, but you are not very good at being a troll. (I know I have said that before, but it is soooo worth repeating.) Hey, I know, maybe we could all take up a collection to send you to trolling classes somewhere. At the very least, you could possibly learn some new material there. I would also suggest a basic English/grammar class, but I'm afraid you are way too far gone for that.

mykcob4's picture
@faith in god or whatever the

@faith in god or whatever the hell you are calling yourself lately.
1) You are NOT my brother.
2) You deserve a whole lot more than I deliver to you.
3) I don't seek attention, that is an assertion by you that is completely false. It's just YOU projecting because it is YOU that needs attention.
4) You say you have never profanity, but you have insulted me and everyone else on this forum. You have made backhanded threats against me.
5) You want me to deal with you in a "civilized" way. 1st of all what you mean is a "civil" manner. You really need an English lesson or two. Secondly, you aren't civilized. When you act civilized, maybe then and only then will people treat you differently. The insults, the exclamation points, the hate, the false indignation, the utter hypocrisy.
6) I will use whatever terminology I see fit and what I see fit in dealing with you is just how I deal with you.
7) Mad? Nah, I'm not mad. I take great delight in putting you in your place. You are a racist hypocrite and a troll. You are ignorant, stupid and uneducated. You are arrogant and have deep mental issues. You need a serious wake-up call!
8) As far as how I am perceived, just look at the "agrees" I get compared to the "disagrees" that you get. It's clear what the perception is.

Now you can grow up or you can continue all this anger hate fill bullshit that you continually post, but stop whining about it like a little pussy. You're a weak individual. You are so weak you wanted sympathy because you can't get along with your own family. Who asks complete strangers to solve their domestic problems over the internet? I'll tell you who. Weak-ass pussies like you. You can't deal with shit. The reason is that you have NO personal accountability. You make excuses for Trump and in the same sentence berate people over perceived moral issues. What a fucking tool!
In other words, KISS MY DYING ASS!

Tin-Man's picture

@FIG Re: "DO NOT KILL, DO NOT STEAL. ETC. ETC.Do you find anything wrong with these moral qualities,"

For the time being, we will leave out all of the thievery and mass murdering that your god has committed over the centuries. Right now I want to focus on a bit of reality a little closer to home....

DO NOT STEAL: I totally agree with that. And, honestly, I cannot stand a thief. For example, I arrested countless shoplifters over the years. From sticky-fingered middle-class teenagers to zonked out drug addicts, taking everything from a pack of tootsie rolls, to cartons of cigarettes, to underarm deodorant. Everybody wanting something for nothing. Pathetic. And WRONG.
HOWEVER, what do you say to a desperate unemployed homeless mother with a starving child when that mother shoplifts a loaf of bread and a pack of bologna from the local grocery store? Where is your "objective moral" stance on THAT, big boy?

DO NOT KILL: Great rule to abide by. Wish more people would abide by it, as a matter of fact. HOWEVER, try telling that to a person who is trying to defend his/her family from a crazed attacker who has broken into their house in the middle of the night. Personally, I would kill that motherfucker as swiftly as I possibly could by any means available to me, and I would strongly advise any other person to do the same in that situation. And after the piece of shit was dead and my family was safe, I would sleep soundly for the rest of my days knowing I had done the right thing. Not very complicated. But - hey - if you want to hide behind your "objective morals" in that case, then by all means, have a ball watching your family get slaughtered. Maybe you will have time to get in a couple of prayers before the maniac gets to you.

Tin-Man's picture
Re: FIG - "Apologist truth"

Re: FIG - "Apologist truth"

Now THAT has got to be one of the all-time best in the realm of oxymoron.

Sky Pilot's picture
faith in God fo...,

faith in God fo...,

God damn it!

"Do not kill", "do not steal" are not part of the fucking Ten Commandments. If you're going to discuss the fucking ancient ethnocentric Middle Eastern Jewish fairy tale at least be accurate.

And the name of the God in the fairy tale is Yahweh, the God of the Hebrews and the God of the armies. The word "God" is just a title and not his damn name.

Sheldon's picture
"Christian apologist don`t

"Christian apologist don`t give there opinion as much as getting it from Jesus"

That would be an OPINION see Billy.

"Do you find anything wrong with these moral qualities, "

No, nor do I find they require a delusion in the existence of a supernatural deity. They also predate the creation of your religion.

"These are not subjective"

Oh really Billy, so why does keep killing people and encouraging humans to kill people and steal their lands and enslave their virgin women and girls? You'd have to be a moron not to see how much of a glaring contradiction that is.

"Only God cares how you live your life "

Not true, there are many people including myself who care how I live my life.

algebe's picture
@Faith in God...God is the

@Faith in God...God is the purveyor of objective moral values. DO NOT KILL, DO NOT STEAL. ETC. ETC.

I believe subjectively in those values. I don't kill. I don't steal. These are the values of my family, and my society. They are also fundamental to economic success. Unless people are secure in their lives, their homes, and their property, they can't think about investing in business, jobs, the future.

Your god cult is the opposite of these values, a kind of Bizzaro morality. Look at the history of your bloody religion. How many armies have gone into battle with god on their side and crosses on their shields? How many opposing armies have both been blessed by Catholic priests before slaughtering each other? The pope himself, the heart of darkness of your cult, blessed the Crusaders and gave them an exemption from the 10 Commandments and the Golden Rule. More recently, your cult allied itself with Nazi Germany and stood by while millions were murdered.

Have you heard of Saint Mary MacKillop, the only Australian saint? She was excommunicated in 1871 for reporting a child-molesting priest. How's that for objective morality?

Your religion is a perverted, morbid death cult that is the enemy of everything bright, young, beautiful, and clean in this world.

bigbill's picture
My religion on the other pole

My religion on the other pole of the spectrum is Thomas Aquinas, Saint Augustine, Saint Francis etc. etc. Where do you think the universities and hospitals derived from Christianity. the missionaries going to the remotest parts of the Globe to help people .Saint Maximillian Kolbe who gave up his life this way a married man with children could go free .Why don`t you list the good parts of the religion There were Catholics who hid Jews from the Nazis it is all well documented Its not the religion that is perverted and making it appear dirty it is just some of the people the Christian Religion is holy and Godly.It`s a beautiful narrative set to the arts in music and sculpture and beautiful paintings. Just look at splendid Rome and the Sistine chapel the incredible work of art there. Then there are Museums throughout Europe that display the paintings .What a Wonderful thing is our church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mykcob4's picture
Your religion Billy carried

Your religion Billy carried out the greatest genocides in world history, the greatest thefts, murder, rape, slavery, child molesting, in world history and that shit IS documented!
You said that there were catholics that hid the jews. Yep, a few, but they were going AGAINST THE catholic church to do so! The catholic church hid more NAZIs from
prosecution of their crimes than saved any jews!

algebe's picture
@Mykcob4: The catholic church

@Mykcob4: The catholic church hid more NAZIs from prosecution of their crimes than saved any jews!

Absolutely right. Google "ratlines".

algebe's picture
@Faith in God: Just look at

@Faith in God: Just look at splendid Rome and the Sistine chapel

Have you ever been to the Vatican? It's the most oppressive place I've ever seen. It's where love, hope and human goodness go to die. In addition to all the biblical scenes, which are bad enough, there are also huge battle paintings. The guide told me the core meaning of the art and the architecture is "oppose us and we will destroy you."

The church used its wealth and power to entrap great artists and then exploited their gifts for religious propaganda.

Sky Pilot's picture
faith in God fo...,

faith in God fo...,

I've been to the Vatican several times. It has the most idols per square foot of any place on the planet. It's totally out of line with Exodus 20:4-5(ERV) = 4 “You must not make any idols. Don’t make any statues or pictures of anything up in the sky or of anything on the earth or of anything down in the water. 5 Don’t worship or serve idols of any kind, because I, the Lord, am your God. I hate my people worshiping other gods. People who sin against me become my enemies, and I will punish them. And I will punish their children, their grandchildren, and even their great-grandchildren."

Sheldon's picture
"My religion on the other

"My religion on the other pole of the spectrum is Thomas Aquinas, Saint Augustine, Saint Francis etc. etc. "

Can someone translate that into English for me?

"Where do you think the universities and hospitals derived from Christianity. "

And that?

"There were Catholics who hid Jews from the Nazis it is all well documented "

There were Catholic Nazis, including Hitler by the way. In Germany you had to be a christian before you were allowed to join the SS, and the Catholic church formed a concordat with Nazism, they celebrated Hitlers birthday every year in a special mass in churches all over Germany. The fact that a handful of Catholics resisted their church's historic antisemitism doesn't excuse what the majority did.

"Christian Religion is holy and Godly."

Does include the inquisition, the Holocaust, the Crusades, the torturing and murder of witches, the genocides in Rwanda, or the genocide and mass rapes in by Serbia christian militia in Croatia?

"Just look at splendid Rome and the Sistine chapel the incredible work of art there."

I've been to St Peter's square, marvellous, so what?

"What a Wonderful thing is our church"

Yes just look at mass rape of children, and the way the church as used it's influence to shield the paedophiles and keep them re offending, and deny the victims justice, yes indeed what a wonderful thing is your church, why just the other day you gleefully claimed a man deserved to die of cancer.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you know what you can do with your religion Billy, and I strongly suggest KY jelly to get it in there.

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