A turn on the arguement...

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xenoview's picture

Can you prove that a god created the universe and started evolution? Can you prove it is your god and not one of the other gods humanity worships. As an Atheist, I say there is a lack of evidence that any god or gods exist. Just because science hasn't figured out everything about the creation of the universe or how life started, doesn't mean a god did it.

jonthecatholic's picture
It’s hard to prove on a

It’s hard to prove on a comment box. Maybe try to look at the arguments yourself while taking away any biases and prejudices. What you’re asking me right now follows this format. You can actually take it one step at a time but if you come by a “No” answer, you may stop.

1. Does God exist (look for arguments for Gods existence)
2. Did God reveal Himself/herself/itself to people? (This is where you look at the world religions)
3. And so on and so forth.

When you comment, you always ask me to prove what I believe and prove that a God exists but let’s be honest, I’m not convincing anyone here. Let’s just say the arguments for Gods existence make sense to me. And I accept that the arguments for God’s non-existence makes sense to you. We need not understand why the opposite view is logical. We need simply accept that both world views are logical.

Burn Your Bible's picture
Not true!! One is based on

Not true!! One is based on testable facts, the other
One throws every understanding of science out the window and asserts itself as facts! When the facts are questioned instead of showing evidence to back up outrageous claims theists lie and hide under faith!

Bullshit bullshit bullshit!!!

jonthecatholic's picture
Let me ask you this then.

Let me ask you this then. Where do you get your idea that everything you have to believe in has to be backed by science? Can you, in fact, prove this scientifically?

xenoview's picture

When I was a christian, I felt unworthy of gods love. So I prayed for god and jesus to make me worthy. I started to read the bible from cover to cover, hoping that would make me a better christian. While I was reading the bible, I came across the evil acts committed and commanded by god, genocide, taking slaves(young virgin girls), and rape. It shook me to the core of my being, that is when I stopped being a christian. Now as an Atheist, I have found there is a lack of evidence that any god or gods exist.

Can you prove that any god is real? If god is real, why does it hide from Atheist?

jonthecatholic's picture
I understand your frustration

I understand your frustration. The Bible was never meant to be an easy book to read. There's a lot on there that's very hard to accept. In a weird way, it actually bolstered by faith. Maybe it's best you ask someone of authority for an explanation for the particularly difficult passages. I'd recommend Trent Horn's Hard Sayings. It deals with the difficult bible passages and puts them in proper context.

CyberLN's picture
How do you know that your

How do you know that your Bible was never meant to be an easy book to read?

jonthecatholic's picture
Because of the divine

Because of the divine authorship of the Bible, you must consider that the author is one of infinite wisdom and as such can put layers upon layers of meanings for different Bible passages. Some look plain enough on face value but have a hidden meaning behind it.

CyberLN's picture
And if this meaning is hidden

And if this meaning is hidden, then I guess you don’t find it, eh?

You are creative, I’ll give you that.

Randomhero1982's picture
And how do you know God

And how do you know God actually wrote the bible? Is it not possible it was a structure concocted by Christ and his followers of how one should live? That would be the most likely of scenarios I would imagine.

There is no actual evidence that a god actually had anything to do with the bible.

Randomhero1982's picture
I think the main point of my

I think the main point of my OP was simply to show the overwhelming evidence for a naturalistic cause for all that we know.

Evolution is obviously a massive feather in the cap which has a colossal amount of evidence to support it and has easily rebuked all attempts to undermine it.

There are many other examples of evidence, including from a cosmological stand point...

What I am asking is, does the theistic position, have any strong evidence to support It thay doesn't simply resort to an arguement from authority when quoting scripture or the awful logical arguments such as Kalam cosmological arguement, which at best can only state the big bang and any precursors must have a cause...
Which would by going by what we know, are more likely to have a natural explanation.

Burn Your Bible's picture
All JoC is going to do is

All JoC is going to do is assert, assert, assert with no evidence

jonthecatholic's picture
You're actually doing the

You're actually doing the exact same thing you're accusing me of doing. No one has simply told you that all you do is assert with no evidence.

Sirkenstien's picture
If a child was raised in such

If a child was raised in such a way, say up in Alaska with just family. And there was never a notion of god instilled in them. There would be nothing to prove or disprove in their mind about the existence of god. You are only parroting what you were taught. In my estimation, the goal of a truly enlightened person should be to unlearn what they have learned. You are the gardener of your mind but you have given those duties to other people and a god that doesn't exist. You will never find true peace on the path you are on. Only more confusion.

Nyarlathotep's picture
JoC - Nothing means no space,

JoC - Nothing means no space, no time, no matter, no energy. Not low energy. No energy.

The universe itself probably contain no energy. Again this business of nothing is not a simple question. For example, in some modern works there are something on the order of up to 10^500 uniquely different states of nothing.

Randomhero1982's picture
Exactly, well said.

Exactly, well said.

It is quite plausible that all positive energy in the universe is cancelled out by negative energy in the form of gravity for example.

It gives credence to the theory of zero energy.


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