Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Log in or create an account to join the discussions on the Atheist Republic forums.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
Donating = Loving
Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
FREE E-BOOKS
Get the book "Why There Is No God" and one more book for FREE!
Sign up below for the Atheist Republic Newsletter to get the books.
Record Your Message!
Record your voice here for it to be aired on the Atheist Republic Voicemails Podcast.
Send us your views and opinions, your personal stories, messages of support, comments on recent news, or any comments you would like to share about your part of the world.
Note : By clicking record you are allowing us to broadcast your message on any of our platforms.
Affiliate Disclaimer
Links to atheist related books, shirts and movies and other atheism related products are affiliate links.
All proceeds will go to keeping the Atheist Republic website up and running; providing resources, advocacy, community tools and encouragement to atheists all over the world.
@ JimM
Irony much?
Our modern day academic practices are relatively new as compared to many of the famous classical scientists. By our standards today they would likely all be plagiarists.
Criticism of Darwin is not meaningful criticism of the theory of evolution by natural selection; it does not belong to him, it is associate with him because of his early writings on the subject, nothing more.
Complete nonsense. Species evolution has been validated by all the evidence of over 160 years scientific research globally. Only a delusional fool even trues to deny it. Creationists are in the same intellectual demographic as flat earthers.
Francis Collins head of the human genome project, and a born again christian.
"As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before. It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming. I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that."
Atheism makes no claims about reality.
Theism makes up claims about reality.
Haven't seen the "JimM" has left the building post yet, but I expect to shortly.
From the article stolen by JimM: They must make a compelling case that everything has been caused by materials and consists only of materials
Which atheist claimed that? The universe and everything in it are the result of forces acting on matter according to the laws of physics. It's theists who deny the reality of those forces and laws by inserting their favorite gods into the mix.
As an atheist, I accept the existence of immaterial things, such as forces, ideas, logic... I just reject the personification of those things into gods. That a pathetic fallacy.
Atheism doesn't explain anything. It just rejects God. Theism attempts to explain the 'Why' of things. As in why do we exist. While science attempts to explain the how of things, as in how things exist.
@ROYISM: Theism attempts to explain the 'Why' of things.
And fails. Religion is the creation of prideful humans who invented anthropomorphic gods to assign a human-centered meaning and destiny to the cosmos. The universe is what it is. We are part of it, and we can see it and learn about it. What more do you want?
You said: “And fails. Religion is the creation of prideful humans who invented anthropomorphic gods to assign a human-centered meaning and destiny to the cosmos.”
First of all, I was only to trying to explain the idea of theism. Whether it has failed or succeeded is another question. But I am willing to discuss it if you are interested.
Your said: “The universe is what it is. We are part of it, and we can see it and learn about it. What more do you want?”
We need more than that, because we are humans and we order our lives around values, not just facts. Without answering the question of ‘why’ we exist, morals and values are meaningless. Can you explain to me how scientifically you can arrive at those answers?
Rotisserie, you wrote, “We need more than that, because we are humans and we order our lives around values, not just facts. Without answering the question of ‘why’ we exist, morals and values are meaningless. Can you explain to me how scientifically you can arrive at those answers?”
Who is this ‘we’ you speak of?
Morals and values may be meaningless to YOU without a god providing you the reason why you exist, but they are not meaningless to me. I have no gods and think the why of my existence is completely rooted in phenomena that can be described in scientific terms.
@CyberLN
You said: “I have no gods and think the why of my existence is completely rooted in phenomena that can be described in scientific terms.”
Can you tell me how science describes the ‘why’ of your existence?
First answer my question about who you are talking for. You used the word ‘we’. Who does that include?
@CyberLN
We means humans
Well, I happen to be one of those (human). Given that, I request that you stop speaking for me. “We need more than that” is just not true. YOU may need more, but I do not.
CyberLN
I am not speaking for any one. I am just stating a fact. That if you need values to live by, you need to have some notion of the purpose of life. Are you saying you can have values without that? Then please enlighten me how. I will follow your method if it makes sense.
Really, that is a fact? Can you demonstrate it as such?
CyberLN
Oh come on. Don't read more meaning into a sentence than what is warranted in the context. By 'stating a fact' what is meant is that i am just making a statement (AND NOT TALKING FOR ANYBODY).
If you are going to label your opinions as facts; you should mentally prepare yourself for the complaints you are practically guaranteed to receive.
Royism, I have access only to what you have written. If you mean one thing and say another, I can’t know anything about that. Crying ‘context’ when the written language is used imprecisely doesn’t change a reader’s take away.
Rubbish, why do you think you can redefine words like that? A fact is something that is proven or known to be true, not whatever you want it to be.
It's not a fact. it's just a subjective opinion,, one you have been asked to demonstrate objective evidence for, and unsurprisingly have just tried to obfuscate, rather than admit you can demonstrate nothing to support your claim.
"Are you saying you can have values without that? "
That would depend how one is defining values, but yes since values are a subjective human concept, then it is demonstrably possible to 'have' values without believing in vapid archaic superstitions.
"I will follow your method if it makes sense."
Unlikely as you have no interest in rational objective reason, as this negates your a priori superstitious beliefs. The two positions are anathema to each other.
Your values manage to encompass myths about flying horses, and to venerate a 50 year old man who according to your own beliefs raped a nine year child. Explain how anyone who believes that can deliver sententious lectures to others on objective morality.
It's a FACT! So tigers have values? Cocroaches have values? Penguins have values? I am not sure where we are going with this. "You need values to live by?" You mean me? So anything that does not have a value to live by dies? Are you making sense to yourself?
I'm sorry.... What? Now I need a purpose in life as well? Please explain why? People log in here every day claiming that they have not purpose. Whether or not I have a purpose seems different than whether or not I need one.
I am still waiting for you to tell us all the PURPOSE OF LIFE so we can tell you to FUCK OFF!
You keep making this assertion without facts, evidence, or even a reasonable rationale.
What is this PURPOSE you keep speaking of and how do you know your version of this purpose applies to me?
Here is one example.
Morality
You do not steal money out of your mother's purse because you understand that if someone did it to you, you would not want it to happen.
There is no "purpose in life" involved, just a rational and logical comprehension that such an act inconveniences another person.
@David Killens
You said: You do not steal money out of your mother's purse because you understand that if someone did it to you, you would not want it to happen. There is no "purpose in life" involved, just a rational and logical comprehension that such an act inconveniences another person.
How did you arrive at that logic for morality such as “don’t do an act that inconveniences another person”? And why may I ask it includes only ‘people’. Why do you feel all right about NOT just inconveniencing animals, but killing them and having them for dinner? What makes you think that one thing is wrong and the other is okay?
Moreover, morality is way more complex than what you make it sound like. You spoke about inconvenience. Whose inconvenience? Why should I give more weightage to inconvenience of another person than my own inconvenience? If I lie to live a rich life and someone wants to expose me, from my point of view he is an inconvenience. Would I be justified in getting rid of that inconvenience? Why should I care for another person’s inconvenience, when all I have got is one life to live and we are just the product of a series of bumbling accidents of nature (including our so called morality). So why should I give this morality a damn?
Perhaps you shouldn't. Go with what works for you. That is kind of the point.
Royism, many apologies...I just noticed that autocorrect made minced meat out of your name in one of my earlier posts.
@ CyberLn
But it was just so apposite! The mental picture it conjured of Royism slowly spinning while dripping globules of fat larded apologetics was just perfect...
@ "Without answering the question of ‘why’ we exist, morals and values are meaningless. "
Wow did you pull a boner on that one. That is one of the more retarded comments I have heard this year. Get ready for a spanking.
Morals and values exist because we are social animals. Being social is a survival tool. A human being along in the wild has about as much a chance of surviving as a walking hamburger. Our children take 8 to 10 years of development just so they can recognize danger and effectively run away. Longer than any other species on the planet. We do not have fangs, claws, armor coated skin, size, camouflage, venom, flight, superior climbing ability, speed, stealth, sharp teeth, superior smell, superior sight, or strength. Were it not for our ability to bond and work together, our species of humanoid would have gone the way of the other six species of humanoids; extinct. It is our ability to bond, from clans, tribes, towns and cities that has allowed us to survive and along with that survival comes the ability to make rules. Who eats first, who does what job, what is property and who owns it, why can't we kill members of our own clan, and what do we do with the people who violate our rules. All throughout human evolution the people who violate the rules (the morality of the clan, tribe, culture) have been ostracized. They have been shunned or sent away. Only the moral behavior is reinforced. This is true even today. When a person can not get along in civilized society and violates the rules, we lock them away. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the human animal to form clans, tribes, groups; and so when we lock them away, they form gangs and frankly become more dangerous than when they were alone. Why we exist presumes purpose. If you think you know why the human species exists, please share. I would love to hear this.
Scientifically; life feeds on life. Live exists to perpetuate life. If you die at birth you serve live. If you live to be a hundred life is equally fulfilled. All life exists to feed on life. It's called "The Life Cycle." Look it up. any meaning you bring to this process is a personal meaning that you have attached to it. Please give me a chortle and tell me the MEANING OF MY LIFE. You can not be as moronic as to assume you know the meaning of my life.... can you?
@Cognostic
You said: Morals and values exist because we are social animals… form gangs and frankly become more dangerous than when they were alone.
From what you are saying, morality is a mechanism for better survival of the species. So anything that helps us survive better must be moral. I can take the logic further and argue that what makes me survive better in this world must be morally right. So, if lying, stealing, murdering etc. help me survive better, then that must be morally right from my perspective. After all, isn’t that the soul reason that criminals indulge in crimes – to live a better life. And many of them do live a better life, while many of those who are honest and righteous suffer.
You said: “If you think you know why the human species exists, please share. I would love to hear this.”
Theologically the purpose of life is to serve God by serving the society and doing good as defined by Him. Those that live a good life are rewarded with paradise and those that live a bad life are punished with hellfire.
You said: “Scientifically; life feeds on life. Live exists to perpetuate life. If you die at birth you serve live. If you live to be a hundred life is equally fulfilled.”
That’s exactly why I say science does not provide us answers to questions of value, morality or purpose of life.
Morality. We appear to agree. Different groups have different moralities. This is what we would expect if there were no magical being in the sky dictating morality.
Pages