When can the Agnostic say 'Yes' ?

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Dworkin's picture
Cog,

Folks,

Whilst this has been rather a drawn out thread, I do feel that we are getting somewhere. Whilst agreement still evades us in this discussion, we are covering preliminary moves in defining our terms and a breakthrough to the main issue is possible.

I'm optimistic.

D.

Whitefire13's picture
“Pretending????” You don’t

“Pretending????” You don’t know that! Maybe believe it...

Cognostic's picture
@White: No one is that

@White: No one is that fucking stupid, not even Ray Comfort!

Whitefire13's picture
Know, believe- whatever -

Know, believe- whatever -

Sheldon's picture
Dworkin "It is possible that

Dworkin "It is possible that belief in the statement 'There is God' is true and it is possible that belief in the statement 'There is no God' is true.

They cannot both be true, that is axiomatic. They are logical negations of each other. Your addition of redundant double negatives, and the insertion of the word belief are pure sophistry.

1. A deity is either possible or not.
2. We can either know a deity is possible or not know.
3. We can either believe a deity is possible or not believe it.
4. There is no objective evidence that any deity is possible.
5. There is no rational argument that any deity is possible.
6. The word deity is vague in its definition, and has no objectively specific meaning.
7. The concept of a deity has no objective explanatory powers about reality.
8. Your overly verbose rhetoric won't change the validity of any of those assertions.

FYI, the words belief, knowledge and possible, are more than adequately defined by the dictionary to satisfy our purposes here.

As of course, were the words atheism and agnosticism, but that didn't hinder your errant rhetoric there either.

Sheldon's picture
I do not, not believe the

I do not, not believe the statement, it is not, not possible for a deity to not, not be possible, or not, and it is not, not possible, for me to not disbelieve it is not, not possible, or not, because I cannot not , not know, that the statement is not, not possible, nor is it not, nor cannot possibly be not, not possible,...or not.

I think this does not, not disprove my point, or not.

I'm going to call this The Dworkin Effect, it's my new thesis.

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon: Ahemmmmm.....

@Sheldon: Ahemmmmm..... Might I suggest, Dworkin Syndrome. It appears to be contagious.

Whitefire13's picture
@Sheldon ...I do not, not

@Sheldon ...I do not, not understand a word you are not, not saying!

Sheldon's picture
@Sheldon ...I do not, not

@Sheldon ...I do not, not understand a word you are not, not saying!

Then I must be really really clever, like Dworkin?

Sorry, I meant...then I do not, not believe the claim I am not not as smart as Dworkin, or not.

Tin-Man's picture
I love it sometimes when

I love it sometimes when Sheldon finally reaches the limits of his patience with the trolls... LMAO....

Cognostic's picture
@Tin: 100 agrees!

@Tin: 100 agrees!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
I bid 10,000 agrees..eat that

I bid 10,000 agrees..eat that banana face...or not....

Cognostic's picture
@TIN: Well, you nearly got

@TIN: Well, you nearly got me. If it was not for the humor, I would have abandoned this dipshit thread on page 2. Keep looking. Do you want a hint? I am hairy and swing from trees when I am not playing with the keyboard.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: "Do you want a hint

@Cog Re: "Do you want a hint? I am hairy and swing from trees when I am not playing with the keyboard."

Hah! I ain't falling for THAT again. Last time I looked up trying to find you I got a chunk of poo flung at my face. Not today, monkey boy! NOT today!... *lowering ballistic level face shield down over face*....

Cognostic's picture
Do you think Dworkin finally

Do you think Dworkin finally figured it out?

NewSkeptic's picture
@Cog Re: Dwork figured it out

@Cog Re: Dwork figured it out

Not a friggin' chance in hell.

Cognostic's picture
@Logic! LMAO ... I guess

@Logic! LMAO ... I guess I can give up hope.

Liwwr's picture
If there were meteors,

If there were meteors, earthquakes, and other planets colliding with Earth and the death of millions of people, we would say that the universe is random and absurd.
If the possibility is what is happening
yes We would say that this universe is not from God

We are creator in this vast universe in order to discover, search and believe
There is a plan, But within this plan are things that are not understood. I believe in that
The mind here asked question and answered

Then they say atheism :

We call what we have found wisdom We have no choice If we were on another planet, we would say beautiful wise universe " All this is nonsense There is no credibility to the concept of wisdom

... The universe did not say I am wise, I am great
The mind is the one who observes, not existence

The order of the universe emphasizes the order of the mind
The mind system discovers the order of the universe
If I said, there is no one-step wisdom that would corrupt the mind system ...

Nyarlathotep's picture
Liwwr - If there were meteors

Liwwr - If there were meteors, earthquakes, and other planets colliding with Earth and the death of millions of people, we would say that the universe is random and absurd.

There are meteors, earthquakes and the deaths of millions of people, every year.

Planet collisions? Very few planets nearby, not much to collide with.

doG's picture
Any chance you can string

Any chance you can string together a coherent sentence from your "mind system" to express a cogent thought, so that people can actually understand WTF you are on about?

cranky47's picture
@ doG

@ doG

"Any chance you can string together a coherent sentence from your "mind system" to express a cogent thought, so that people can actually understand WTF you are on about?"

Don't hold your breath.

If solipsism is the best he can do there's not much hope.

Or perhaps I've misunderstood; I'm old and easily confused.

Nyarlathotep's picture
I've invented a new game: a

I've invented a new game: a working title might be: guess the fundie punctuation.

Consider the following:

Liwwr - We call what we have found wisdom We have no choice If we were on another planet, we would say beautiful wise universe " All this is nonsense There is no credibility to the concept of wisdom

See how that paragraph has a strange single instance of the double quotation mark? You have to guess where the missing partner of that quotation mark should have been placed. I will accept the following answers:

  1. At the beginning of the paragraph.
  2. At the end of the paragraph.
  3. Two words that are adjacent to each other, from the paragraph (meaning the missing quotation mark should be placed between the two words you list).
Cognostic's picture
@Liwwr" "If there were

@Liwwr" "If there were meteors, earthquakes, and other planets colliding with Earth and the death of millions of people, we would say that the universe is random and absurd. If the possibility is what is happening yes We would say that this universe is not from God"

What the fuck universe are you living in? Planets exploding, super novas, Andromeda whisking at break-neck speeds towards the Milkyway, solar flares, deadly space radiation,

"10% of the world is covered by glaciers, and a further 19% is barren land – deserts, dry salt flats, beaches, sand dunes, and exposed rocks.1 This leaves what we call ‘habitable land’. Half of all habitable land is used for agriculture.2

This leaves only 37% for forests; 11% as shrubs and grasslands; 1% as freshwater coverage; and the remaining 1% – a much smaller share than many suspect – is built-up urban area which includes cities, towns, villages, roads and other human infrastructure. "

What fucking planet are you living on? Here on the earth we have volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, forest fires from nothing more than lightening from the sky, tidal waves, hurricanes, tornadoes, deadly virus, flesh eating bacteria, and people willing to cut your throat for a dollar.

How in the fuck do we get to your magical universe?

Cognostic's picture
@Neruda: YOU ARE ONE

@Neruda: YOU ARE ONE CONFUSED PUPPY!

"I'm a 6! Being Agnostic does not (necessarily) mean that you (automatically) tend to 'believe' that there is a God! It's simply being open to the 'probability' based on scientific proof that there is one."

Agnostic: Says NOTHING AT ALL about what a person believes. NOTHING.
There are agnostic Christians, in fact an argument can be made which asserts all Christians are agnostic. There are agnostic atheists. AGNOSTICISM telly you nothing what so ever about BELIEF.

Agnosticism: is not an assertion that "God does not exist." In the SET of atheists you merely have people who do not believe in god or gods. You would have to talk to a whole lot of Atheists to find out why. For myself... "Those making the claim that god is real have not met their burden of proof." That's it. Nothing more.

Now, with that said, there is certainly a subset of atheists who are also anti-theist. These folks will make the assertion that God or gods do not exist. I find myself in this category at least 80 to 90 percent of the time, depending on the God being discussed. Once the god is defined, it is pretty easy to see the flaws in a definition. Most definitions are fraught with special pleading, fallacious arguments. contradictions, or just inane assertions. These are easily pointed out and there is no reason to assume faulty definitions or reasoning belong to any real god.

It's nice that you are an atheist of sort, but you might want to check out your definition and assertions for consistency and validity.

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