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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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Take it anyhow you want but anything that is called God, by definition, is self existing i.e. It exists via its own volition. Thus 'who made God', i'm sorry, is a dumb dumb question.
@reedemption
"Take it anyhow you want but anything that is called God, by definition, is self existing i.e. It exists via its own volition."
You can't wish something into existence. All you are doing is asserting that since you used the word "god", therefore it exists.
Let me give it a try.
Giant invisible pink bunnies.
Voila, I said it, therefore they self exist.
Of course this is sarcasm and I can not prove in any way that giant invisible pink bunnies exist, just like your god.
We are just waiting for the mods to show you the exit. Idiotic presupposition nonsense means nothing around here. Either you have evidence for the existence of whatever you are calling God or you do not. It really is just that simple.
You do not get to define a god into existence. Obviously you have made your own version of god in which the question who made it is inane. Yet, it is completely obvious this version of God is simply an imaginary creation of your own. Have fun with your god. All you have asserted is that "Facts and evidence don't matter. I choose to believe in the God I have created." Go have fun with your God belief.
Oh.... I just got a phone call from your self existing god. He wanted me to tell you "Hi." and to "quit being a pedantic ass.: Obviously "every religion on the planet has invented their own version of God just as you have." Your god told me that he was completely fine with that.
@reedemption: RE: "Take it anyhow you want"
Great, thanks, we took it like the load of unsubstantiated bullshit it is. Have a nice day and if you ever actually come up with any good reasons or evidence for the existence of your god that might be worth discussing, come on back and visit us again. Bye.
@reedemption
"God is a self existing being. Easy peezy. He exists by his own volition"
Please backup your assertion. Unevidenced claims have zero traction in here.
@reedemption makes fallacious comments. Easy peezy. He does it of his own ignorance.
@wasbutnomore
{ To me everything always was, we are just getting better at understanding and explaining it }
________________________________________________________________________________
@ Mutorc . . .
{ I read something recently, which makes sense to me, see what YOU think, wasbutnomore. It goes like this . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
Suppose the our universe came into existence 13.8 billion years ago. Time also began in the same process as the universe coming into being. Thus, the universe HAS always existed, but ALWAYS is a mere 13.8 billion years.
________________________________________________________________________________
Furthermore, if time began at that point 13.8 billion years ago, then nothing outside of the universe could have created it, for that would require time, since time is required for changes to occur. And . . . without good evidence, nothing outside of the universe exists. This is a matter of and for science to explain. }
Not sure.
I once asked an astro physicist friend :'What was there before the big bang?" His response was"there was no before" . Then I went and got confused. That usually happens when I try to ask him questions in his field.
Stephen Hawkins explained: (see link for video)
"Famed physicist Stephen Hawking definitively answered one of humankind's grandest questions — What was around before the Big Bang?
"Nothing was around," Hawking told astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson on his show StarTalk.
Saying he uses a "Euclidean approach to quantum gravity to describe the beginning of the universe," Hawking goes deep into what that actually means. A degree in astrophysics will help you understand, but he makes a concise point about the Big Bang, which happened nearly 14 billion years ago. "
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2018/03/06/stephen-hawkin...
Been trying to explain this to theists for years regarding their inane cosmological apologetics. I thought Lawrence Krauss did a wonderful job explaining what is meant by nothing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo A universe from nothing.
Yea crank47, this "nothing" concept is very hard to wrap your head around.
One strong proposition is that if there was nothing before the "big bang", then there was no time.
In most situations, when "nothing" is referred to, it is the absence of matter. But even in the deepest regions of space where single atoms are light years apart, it is a busy place with photons, cosmic rays, and other radiation passing through. There is also the influance of gravity, which is warping the space time. And of course, time is also present, the celestial clock is continually ticking.
But for physicists, "nothing" is an abstract concept, where there is no matter, no gravity, no radiation, and no time. If that seems like a mind-fuck, yes. it took me a very long time just to get a handle on something waaay outside of my experience and thought processes.
Revelation 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” He always has, is and will be
Because he is the power source of all life which holds everything together that is not bound to one image meaning he is not a guy with a big beard in the sky or a bright light but can resemble himself in this way if he wants because he is translucent in all particles, vibrations, atoms, light frequencies, solidarity and all the things science knows about While at the same time the Spiritual elements that science can not see or know about, You can not see gravity, It’s imaginary but believe it is Real because of a man written science book, You can not see God yet you believe he and his book is imaginary? Yes man wrote the bible but had the possession of the Holy Spirit to be the hands of God and voice Of God as we all are intended to be. 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies” You can see gravity at work so you know it’s real you are thinking, You can see the power of God at work to know he is real if you see my post - Angels & Demons Are Among Us (BibleRaptureBegun) 0 + 0 always = 0 and you can not add a 1 because it starts with 0 in your belief-therefor in such case, you shouldnt be alive right now to be able to add the 1, So reading books about something coming from nothing is almost comical but is truly sad indeed, You will put your faith in a non conscious, no free will Rock that came from nothing or was elements made up something that always existed but Not in a free will, Conscious God who always existed and gave you his traits? His breath of life aka The Power Source...Genesis 2:7 “God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Yes that’s right, You are a Soul. A Spirit bound to The laws of Science-which-is-a-part-of-God-Holding-All-That-Is-As-1-From-His-Source-Of-Power. Just like your television, just like your computer, It needs to be plugged into a power-source to give it life-and-light. God-is-the-power-source-connected-into-us-and-into-this-earth-to-give-life-and-light.
@Apocalyptic Re: "You are a Soul. A Spirit bound to The laws of Science-which-is-a-part-of-God-Holding-All-That-Is-As-1-From-His-Source-Of-Power. Just like your television, just like your computer, It needs to be plugged into a power-source to give it life-and-light. God-is-the-power-source-connected-into-us-and-into-this-earth-to-give-life-and-light."
Gee, thanks for the offer, Apoc, but I do believe I will pass on that whole "plugging into a power source" idea. Ummm... yeah... Last time I tried that I woke up in a hospital emergency room with a strange tingling sensation throughout my body and electrical burn marks around my asshole. To make matters worse, my whole neighborhood was without power for about three or four days. To say the least, those folks were NOT happy with me for quite some time after that.... *shaking head sadly*... To this day I cannot get near an electrical socket without breaking out in a cold sweat.
@ApocalypticHSent
"So reading books about something coming from nothing is almost comical but is truly sad indeed"
It is even sadder when one realizes that scientists and atheists do not make that claim, that something came from nothing. Theists such as yourself are the ones making such confused noises.
The theory of the big bang comes from Hubble's discovery that the universe is expanding. Working backward, it is postulated that at one time 13.777 billion years ago all known matter and energy was concentrated in a singularity, something with zero dimensions but incredible energy and temperature. At that point the math breaks down, and
WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT CAME BEFORE THE BIG BANG
Geez, try to learn stuff instead of filling your brain with superstition and crazy crap that has nothing to do with the real world.
(1) Perhaps have a go at using paragraphs.
(2) Lots of claims. That means the burden of proof is on you. Either prove your claims or stop wasting my time.
Anything that is called "God" by definition exists by its own free will. This thread literally has no meaning
@ Redemption
Hera was called a god but did not exist of her own volition, neither Artemis, or Mithras...or any of the thousands of gods that humans have known.
Even the original Yahweh had a beginning and only now exists because of stupid humans.
@Old man shouts why do you think hera qualifies as a true God? And what do you mean that Yahweh had a beginning? Why do you believe that?
For the same reason you beleive in your god. Because you say so.
By your logic, any god can exist just because you say so, and not require any evidence or proof.
@reedemption
Hera qualifies as much as a true god as any of the other 4000 odd deities that mankind has, and does, revere.
Tell me why she is not a god please. She has as much evidence for existence as your chosen deity.
Yahweh had a beginning in the Sumerian Pantheon, and was a minor war god with his wife Ashera (a much nicer god) in the Babylonian pantheon.
Ashera was worshipped in home hearths for many centuries by the "Israelites" ( hebrews) as archeology has confirmed.
Both were appropriated (as were the stories of Noah and many more) by the Hebrews (later People of El) and later the Israelites and formed the beginnings and many stories of the pentateuch/Torah.
A quick trip to the Tel Aviv University Dept of Archeology will bear out everything I have written about Yahweh and Ashera....they found hearth shrines to her in Jericho by the way...fascinating..
Sorry to burst your bubble. . but then truth is often elusive for the theist.
@cranky47: I missed where Logic made the assertion that the universe came from nothing. My understanding of Lawrence Krauss is that he asserts "Nothing is actually Something." What we once thought of as empty space is just not empty any more. We know that something exists and we have no way to get to nothing. Coming into existence is still that point at Planck time when the universe began to expand. (Where something began to expand.) Physics breaks down at this point and we know nothing beyond it. You left the link for Lawrence.
With that said, there is the argument that matter and anti matter cancel each other out and all the energy of the entire universe equals "ZERO." (Zero Energy Universe Hypothesis) "The zero-energy universe hypothesis proposes that the total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero: i"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe Once it all cancels out, there is nothing left. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GrKC7Tey8E
@David Killens, @Cognostic God, by definition, is the SOURCE of existence. We're talking of reality here. The problem you atheists have is that you keep seeking empirical evidence for that which is beyond our scope of understand. God is waaay beyond science.
Three things to note here
1. It is impossible for order to come from chaos i.e. The big bang. The big bang was initiated by an external force
2. God can not be observed "empirically". Or can any of you measure consciousness?
3. Anyone who may try to claim that the universe can also be self-existing will be appalled to learn that the big bang already falsifies this. Infinite regress has to terminate at some point and that point is GOD.
@reedemption
"God, by definition, is the SOURCE of existence."
God, by definition is an imaginary dude in the sky who is not obsessed with people's private parts.
There you are reedemption, my unproveable assertion carries just as much weight as yours.
Just before one butthurt theist runs in and starts screaming "b..b..but i can just say god is obsessed with people's private parts!"
@reedemption: RE: God is waaay beyond science.
How in the fuck would you know? All you have done is make an inane assertion. Science is how we validate reality. If you have a better way we would all love to hear about it.
Interesting how he manages to establish an idea, then contradict it, with just 5 words.
@reedemption1.
RE: It is impossible for order to come from chaos i.e.
Explain Snow flakes, crystals, flowers, the golden ratio, Planck Time and the evolution of order from chaos. Why would our physics break down at Planck time if order continued?
Re: " God can not be measured empirically." Then how would you know? What valid, logical proof can you possibly use to determine the existence of god that is not empirical? We would all love to hear about this new field of inquiry. Or are you just making another inane assertion?
RE: Infinite regress has to terminate at some point and that point is GOD.
How can you prove either of these assertions? This is a fallacious God of the Gaps argument. All you have done is insert your idea of God at the origin of everything/ If you can do it so can anyone else. Around here we have blue universe creating pixies. Universe creating unicorns. The Big Yellow Universe creating Banana, and more. Each and every one of them has the exact same characteristics and qualities as your god but for one thing. They are the actual creator of your god.
@Cognostic
RE: "Explain Snowflakes et al"
Snowflakes and crystals are not caused by chaos but by order in the arrangement of the H-O-H bond in water molecules. The fractals you see are from this. This applies to every atomic or molecular crystals. All physical laws breakdown as we approach time t=0 of the big bang because virtually all constants you know are tied to the existence of mass. I don't know what you mean by "why would our physics break down in Planck Time if order continued?" but can I discuss Planck Time without reference to Planck mass? At time t=0, mass doesn't exist. Order in flowers? What do you mean?
All living systems (including our own human systems, as much as we may deceive ourselves to the contrary) emerge naturally, with chaos as the over-riding organising force. You see order, you are quite simply not moving far enough down the ladder of atomic structures.
https://thenatureofbusiness.org/2012/07/12/chaos-is-not-order-it-is-the-...
@Cognostic
RE: "What valid logical proof can you possibly use to demonstrate god that isn't empirical?"
1. The impossibility of an infinite regression of cause and effect. At a point, you must arrive at a first cause, this first cause as a necessity can't be made of atoms or things that were "caused". God as first cause can't be made of physics and chemistry
2. Impossibility of a computer code self existing. The DNA is more than a code, it is a library of codes that build and make an organism. If you can show that given 26 letters of the alphabets and the numerals can perform random permutations and arrive at a logic code, then you win.
3. Origin of consciousness and self-awareness. If you can show how chemical reactions can produce molecules with irritability, then you win.
I may not have proved God but i've given you something to think about
@Reedemption Re: " At a point, you must arrive at a first cause, this first cause as a necessity can't be made of atoms or things that were "caused". God as first cause can't be made of physics and chemistry"
Damn skippy, Reed! You tell him! Glad somebody finally put Cog in his place. Because for the last several months I have been trying to tell that banana brain that it was my divine Ginormous Invisible Blue Universe-Creating Bunny that created your god out of non-corporeal semi-antimatter that is neither atomic nor chemical. But does Cog ever listen to ME?.... NOOOOooooooo... *rolling eyes*... Because he thinks he knows EVERYTHING, and he insists it was some Cosmic Yellow Banana or some such nonsense that created your god from unicorn farts and pixie dust. And everybody KNOWS that those particular items contain atoms and chemicals, and therefore could NOT have created your god. Glad you are here, bro. Good to finally have somebody around here who talks sense... *thumbs up*...
@reedemption
Wow.
Just wow.
You really outdid yourself with this post.
It is like you know a few big words, and you know how to put them in sentences, but you have zero idea what the words mean, let alone the sentences you write.
Despite the use of a few big words, your points/sentences amount to chicken scratch. Its inane, its babble, it is like a small child learning how to say a few big words and puts the words in sentences in random order.
You have given me something to think about: I am thinking about how your education from your school, family, friends, peers, etc has utterly failed you.
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