I am new and it's my 1st question.
I am Muslim and belong to Pakistan.one day i just see word 'ATHEIST' on social media,i just became interested to know what is meaning and purpose of atheist republic.I sought it through google,social media etc and i understand the atheist are "Believers without any GOD".
I agree some of your points that any religious make a person isolated,pessimist,hater etc i.e if i am muslim and belongs to SHIA Sact(Sact of muslim community) than our preachers said we are perfect and we are one to able and rewarded by GOD Heaven,same concept of other sacts just like sunni,deobandi,braveli etc.Now if i talk about other religion out of sactarial boundary line of Muslims like Hindo,christian, budthmat or any one else than in our concept they are totally wrong and definitely deserve HELL.
My Question is as your concept there is no GOD in universe, if u see simply glass u can say its made without any maker,or u see bus,laptop,train,airoplane or any thing else can be made without any engineer,worker???
IF NO THAN "HOW ITS POSSIBLE THAT UNIVERSES MADE WITHOUT ANY CREATOR???"
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I am not a believer. You have an incorrect definition.
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
As I've always said, 13 billion years is plenty of time for things to come about by shear chance. As for what created the universe: The Big Bang.
As an atheist, I have no faith in any god because there is no evidence to support the existence of any gods.
We humans have learned very much about the universe and how lifeforms change and adapt. There is a vast amount of information to take in to understand it, but it is largely available to everyone these days through the Internet.
Religious claims have been forced to change over and over again because of scientific discoveries. The Earth was at the centre of the solar system, The Earth was at the centre of the Universe, the Earth was flat, disease was caused by demons or curses, and so on.
But no matter how much we discover, the concept of a Creator can always move just beyond the latest discoveries.
The answer to your question, always requires a new answer.
It was caused by this -> Okay, what caused that? That was caused by this -> Okay, what caused this then? -> etc...
The answer "The Creator did it" has the same problem: What caused the creator?
That this Creator is Eternal is just an answer made up to solve the problem. This way people can say that they "know the answer".
I feel no need to have the answer to "How was this all created?". I'm curious and I want to know, but I don't have to force an answer that simply has no supporting evidence.
EDITED TO ADD:
Have you read about The Big Bang Theory? Have you read about The Theory of Evolution?
Note: The word theory here is implies "scientific theory" not the common use of the word "theory".
Ridiculous! What you don't understand is that atheists do not believe in a creator or a god. So what the hell do you actually want from us?
You made this vial statement "Now if i talk about other religion out of sactarial boundary line of Muslims like Hindo,christian, budthmat or any one else than in our concept they are totally wrong and definitely deserve HELL." Which indicates that you intend a hateful discourse. If that is the case move on and never come back.
As atheists, we have nothing to prove. As a believer, you have a great deal to prove. Remember that. Atheists are NOT believers.
It's obvious that you have a limited education, so it will be difficult to inform you of anything that you haven't been brainwashed with. Therefore it is YOUR best interest to just leave.
Nice comeback !
Nasir - "our preachers said we are perfect"
That is convenient.
I'm gonna laugh my ass off if this was another hit and run.
(The following is posted whilst hoping this isn’t a hit and run)
I don’t often disagree with your posts but in my opinion you’re out of order here. The man has just discovered the concept of atheism and found that it contradicts everything he has been taught. He has posted here asking (what for him) is a legitimate question. To ask him to leave before he’s had a chance to respond to the first two posts is flat out wrong.
First of all, welcome.
I’m not “"a believer without any GOD". I’m just a person ‘who doesn’t believe in any god.’ There’s a big difference. From your post I can tell English is not your first language so I hope you can see the difference.
If you hadn’t been born in a Muslim country would you still think everyone else deserves to go to hell? Christians believe that if you haven’t accepted Jesus then you are going to hell. These two religions can’t both be true.
If you had not been raised from childhood to believe there was a creator would you still think there was one?
Yeah, I'm gonna laugh my arse off too :)
If I'm out of order then sobeit. I posted what I did because of his comment about if anyone disagrees with his religion that they are assured of hell. That tells me that this person is not interested in learning but rather into proslytizing.
There's no evidence that god created the universe. We used to believe that god sent thunderstorms, plagues and floods, and that he made the sun rise in the morning. We've learned a lot since then. We even know that the sun doesn't really rise.
There is plenty of evidence that man created gods, since gods always reflect the cultural characteristics of the regions where they originate. In my country, I learned that god was an old white man with a long beard, and that his son, although born in the Middle East, was a young, white man with light brown hair and blue eyes. I was also told that god loved our country more than any other and was always on our side when we went to war.
There is conclusive evidence that gods in the minds of men created the kind of hateful, spiteful notions that you cite, such as "they are totally wrong and definitely deserve HELL" People create hell. It's a place where rival religious groups use guns and bombs to kill and maim each other, including children. Does that place sound familiar to you?
You say that if we see glass, a laptop, bus, train, etc. that we don't believe it has a creator. This is a false statement. We assume there is someone who created it, because there are thousands like it, and we can understand (pretty much) everything about it. We cannot apply that same logic to something as grand in scale as the universe. Of which there is only one(as far as we know) and we don't even understand everything in this single universe.
@ Nasir -
You gave the example that when I look at glass I know it was created by man so when I see a human how can I not know it was created by god.
Are you aware of natural crystals formed as a result of natural forces. when you see them in the wild will you assume man came here to fix these crystals in the wild or would you chose a natural explanation ?
It's easy to create an identity on this site. It appears to me that there may be only one individual doing all the 'hitting n running'.
If everyone on the planet believed that Allah had all the answers then we would still think that the earth is flat. It is only because of atheists that you know the planet is round. If you can still believe the things in your book after you are told something that is blatantly wrong, then you want to believe in Allah and nothing will ever change that. If you want to believe that you might actually be able to find answers that aren't in your book, then you become an atheist.
May I ask, who told you there was a creator?
Hey, Bill. Just to save you the anxiety and anticipation of waiting for a response from Nasir, you might want to check the date of the OP. Good bet Mr. Nasir was a drive-by poster, and it was a couple of years ago. LOL For some reason these old threads pop up from time to time.
Edit to add: In regards to the OP title, however, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Pee-Wee Herman is the creator. Anybody ever watched Pee Wee's Playhouse? That would pretty much have to be the mentality of anybody who would intentionally create us and the universe as it is. Just a personal opinion, of course.
"waiting for a response"
hey bill want to use my glasses?hahah..
@ Nasir: "Who is our creator?"
Your question is phrased incorrectly. You are "Begging the Question" and that is a logical fallacy. The answer to a question can not be contained in the question itself.
The question asserts that there is a "Who." It also makes the assertion that there was a "creation." Before you can assert either of these things you have to prove them,
You must ask - "Was there a creation and what evidence is there for it?" If there was, how do you know.
Then, you must ask "Why are things here?" Not "Who." If you actually search and discover a "Who" behind everything, let us know. I would love to see the evidence.
@ "Believers without any GOD".
NO! Atheists are not "BELIEVERS." Atheism is a position of non-belief. They do not believe the magical fairy tales in the Quaran or in the Bible. There is no reason to believe an angel was talking to a man in a cave. There is no reason to believe a man split the moon in half or flew to it on a magical winged horse. Believing in this nonsense if akin to believing in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
@ My Question is as your concept there is no GOD in universe, if u see simply glass u can say its made without any maker,or u see bus,laptop,train,airoplane or any thing else can be made without any engineer,worker???
You are making a false analogy. You are comparing things that occur naturally with things that are created. We know the things that are created because we create them or we have watched them being created. We have thousands upon thousands of years distinguishing things that are created from those that occur naturally. A natural world is all anyone has ever been able to confirm and there is no reason to assume any kind of supernatural causation.
Amino acids and proteins (the basic building blocks of life) do come from nonliving material.
Miller–Urey experiment ,
"Charles Carter and Richard Wolfenden, both of the University of North Carolina, have uncovered new evidence of abiogenesis, the process by which life arises from non-living chemical matter. Their study, published Thursday in the Journal of Biological Chemistry, suggests that a single ancient gene may have used each of its opposite DNA strands to code for different chemical catalysts. Those separate catalysts would have both activated amino acids, which then formed proteins – essential to the production of living cells."
There is actual evidence for the idea of life coming from non-life. What evidence do you have for a magical creator being? Love to hear it.
For Fk Sake - I hate when that happens. Damn it Tin Man - You are going to train me to start looking at those damn dates.
Hey, Cog, if it makes you feel any better, at least that was a really good response. *chuckle*
Why do people assume the universe had a creator while god has none?
Indeed, it was pretty neat.
And I'm starting to understand the issues of post ordering and reemerging posts. Pretty annoying indeed, shall keep an eye open for that in the future. Makes a good read for a newbie like me tho! >:3
"atheist are "Believers without any GOD"."
No, atheism is not a belief, it simply means the lack or absence of the belief a deity or deities exist.
"wrong and definitely deserve HELL"
I'm not sure how you are defining hell, but no one deserves to be tortured, let alone forever.
"My Question is as your concept there is no GOD in universe,"
Again this is not the definition of atheism, atheism is the lack or absence of a belief that a deity or deities exist. It is not a concept or a claim or assertion that contradicts theism. Though an atheist may do this if they choose of course.
" if u see simply glass u can say its made without any maker,or u see bus,laptop,train,airoplane or any thing else can be made without any engineer,worker???"
That's called a straw man fallacy, you have falsely claimed that atheism makes a claim or argument you know to be invalid, and therefore easy to refute in order to pretend atheism is also refuted when you destroy the claim. We know those examples are designed and made because we have objective evidence for that, the most obvious fact that shows they are designed and created is that none of them ever occur in nature.
"IF NO THAN "HOW ITS POSSIBLE THAT UNIVERSES MADE WITHOUT ANY CREATOR???"
That's called argumentum ad ignorantiam, and is also a common logical fallacy, used to reverse the burden of proof. Atheism is not a claim, and I am an atheist and I don't make this claim. Though I don't believe the universe was created or that any deity exists unless or until someone can demonstrate sufficient objective evidence for those claims.
What objective evidence can you demonstrate that the universe was designed or created?
*EDIT** Sonofabitch, I do wish people would give some indication they've resurrected a thread that has been inactive for more than a fucking year.
At least it was a good reply Sheldon. (That's what Tin Man told me when I commented.) LOL
We gotta start checking those dates.
@Cog and Sheldon
Look on the plus side, guys. Like Muashkis said, at least it makes some good reading for some of the new folks on here. Just don't hold your breath waiting on a response from the OP writer, though. lol
I say we hunt him down and staple our responses to his front door.
I was with you until you said front door.
Don't worry my rant is almost spent...long day in work failing the same people's work for the same old reasons.
I'll get carpal tunnel syndrome answering theists who breezed through for just one day over a year ago, just to preach the same tired old cliches. I suppose I can see the funny side, it's just I wish they would read some of the answers in threads already posted, before repeating the same pointless apologetics.
glibly stating a list of things we already know are designed, then asking how atheists can believe these objectively evidenced facts, but not believe the creationist claim for a designed created universe for which they can demonstrate no objective evidence, is getting very tired now. It's like they all go to the same school of apologetics, where they all learn the same vapid straw man fallacies. Then come on here and post them, in a long tedious single file line, day after day.
And yes, I do see the irony of expecting something new from bronze age superstitions. Time for another glass of wine I think, and fuck the diet. ;-)
Well, I guess we all know that hardly any theist can actually read. Definitely not the apologetics. Because if they could actually read, they wouldn't be theists. Their own holy scriptures speak for themselves.
To answer the question of the thread title. The answer is Allah
Demonstrate some objective evidence for your claim.
We won't hold our breath.