Why hasn't Neil Tyson DeGrasse been fired. He clearly has admitted to sexual harassment. I would like to show new evidence of potential sexual harassment that NTG must account for. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PSBCoiDGY0 In this rare NTG quote, he clearly exhibits a tendency for inappropriate sexual language at least. I would like this quote to be researched and debated.
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Not sure how that indicates sexual harassment... It’s actually a pretty valid point.
Have a reputable source for that claim?
After a bit more research, it seems that an investigation is in order, but firing could be a bit preemptive. Still not sure how the above quote is evidence. I should hope he has a basic understanding of human anatomy. His name is Neil DeGrasse Tyson btw.
Right, Mr. Tyson is involved in claims of this kind, but as you pointed out it has nothing to do with the quote about a sewage system, lol.
I'm also skeptical of the statement he admitted his guilt. I have no idea if he is guilty or not; but I'd guess if he is, he isn't stupid enough to publicly admit it. But you know, I've been wrong before: we'll see if a source for that claim can be produced by the OP.
How is stating a true fact an admittance for sexual harassment? Think Critically about it. It is an argument against the Intelligent Design hypothesis. Even before I heard Mr. Tyson say that, I have been saying the same thing. Think Critically about it. Right in the middle of our own built-in septic system is also an entertainment console. Guess you lie about masturbation. It goes like this: Nine out of ten people will admit to masturbating. The other one is lying.
Do you see a true observation about the positioning of human sexual and excretory organs as evidence of sexual predation? If Mr Tyson is guilty of the accusations against him, does that make him morally equivalent to priests who prey instead of praying? Do you think the alleged sexual misbehavior by Mr Tyson weakens the atheist position and strengthens Christianity?
IMO, all the link proves is that Mr. Tyson is plagiarizing a rather old joke, which I first remember hearing from a stand-up comedian back in the 1980s. I've heard similar jokes about why god would design our breathing and eating equipment to share the same passageway, resulting in the need for the Heimlich maneuver.
Even more strange if you believe in "intelligent" design is the Valsalva maneuver, which you perform using your glottis. It's main purpose is to provide a downward thrust from your throat down to your rectum to expel crap. It causes a sharp rise in blood pressure, which is why so many people, including poor old Elvis, die on the toilet of strokes or heart attacks. Great design!
So is this another drive by theist with an axe to grind, or is there any substance to the claims in the OP? Prima facie it's an odd thing to suggest someone should be immediately fired based solely on an accusation, surely an accusation is the starting point of an investigation. I haven't watched the YouTube clip because he didn't concisely outline what he was objecting to, and all the other posters have rubbished his claim about it anyway.
It's important that such accusation are thoroughly and impartially investigated, but the hysteria with which some people react to these accusations in recent times doesn't help. Though given the historical bias and incompetence that has failed victims of sexual misconduct of all types it is sadly quite understandable.
Though I dislike it's theistic origins I think this quote is apt "The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine."
Fīat jūstitia ruat caelum.
In the mean time people are innocent until "proved" guilty, and I think that Blackstone's ration is still an appropriate sentiment to express here.
It isn't an issue of me having an axe to grind, Tyson has at least admitted to assult via the "pluto search" woman. This is enough to fire him. This comment was a surprise meant to demean and humiliate the questioner, rather than an answer to if God exists. This comment has not been researched, and I demand to know more about who he said this vulgar comment to.
What a load of crap.
Highroller, if I went to your workplace and told your boss that decades ago you sexually assaulted me, should you be immediately fired based on that accusation?
No, an accusation with out an admission is useless. Tyson has admitted to the "pluto search" woman that he did as he was accused. He has admitted to showing "implied restraint" to a request for a hug. Thus he admitted to fantising about raping a collegue.
Now there is a vulgar quote that only I have identified. Regardless of the quotes validity, in of it self, one must look at Tyson's previous behavior and see that this fits into a broad behavioral pattern of sexual harassment and possibly drug induced rape. Tyson may be a great political/ scientific theorist, but his violations of human dignity demand that he gets fired.
Please give us your definition of sexual assault.
Either provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, or your assertion is just a bunch of bullshit. I think you should be fired from your current job just for being an asshole.
Still no source?
When I read your claim, I googled the story; and what I found did not match what you said. Now of course, I had only just heard of the incident from you so I figured I just don't understand the story, maybe you have a more current source. Can you please give me this source?
You have been repeating this lie from the start, and I have linked NDT denying the accusations, all of them. He even offered explanations of his conduct that I posted. Nothing in his explanation suggests he broke any law. This lie you keep repeating is risible nonsense.
Even if he is guilty of all the accusations they remain at this point unproved, as the law demands. An employer cannot sack an employee based on an unevidenced accusation. Has he even been charged with anything? Nothing I read suggested he had even been charged yet.
"He has admitted to showing "implied restraint" to a request for a hug. Thus he admitted to fantising (sic) about raping a collegue.(sic)"
You're either trolling or an imbecile, though given your spelling you might just be both.
"Now there is a vulgar quote that only I have identified."
Another lie, everyone here has seen the quote, they just aren't misinterpreting it in the asinine way you seem to want to.
"one must look at Tyson's previous behavior and see that this fits into a broad behavioral pattern of sexual harassment and possibly drug induced rape. "
The other two accusations seem fairly innocuous in the explanations NDT offered, and though this doesn't excuse it, it certainly doesn't suggest what you are claiming. The accusation of rape remains just an accusation at this point, as it must and as the law demands.
"Tyson may be a great political/ scientific theorist, but his violations of human dignity demand that he gets fired."
Still just an accusation or rape, and the rest seems to be a fantasy you've created about how such accusations are dealt with. Again you're either trolling or have an axe to grind here, your hysteria and misrepresentation suggests the latter, but at this point I'm ruling nothing out given the rank stupidity of some of your posts and claims.
In fact some of your claims (and your spelling) are so offensively stupid I demand you be fired by your employers.
"Tyson published a response to the allegations in a Facebook post Saturday night. He says that he did not recognize, in the moments of the alleged misconduct, how uncomfortable Allers and Watson were and that he regrets having made them uneasy. While he did not realize that his behavior had bothered Allers until last week, he says that Watson confronted him about the wine-and-cheese evening on her last day at work and that he then “apologized profusely.” He also says that he made the hug-related comments to Watson “on a few occasions” in the context of refusing her hugs and offering a handshake instead. In his statement, Tyson rejects Amet’s accusation of assault. Tyson also states that he welcomes the investigation by Fox and National Geographic. "
This on Facebook is worth a read, as it airs the same concerns I expressed about leaping to conclusions of guilt, as I must say you appear to be doing.
"For a variety of reasons, most justified, some unjustified, men accused of sexual impropriety in today’s “me-too” climate are presumed to be guilty by the court of public opinion. Emotions bypass due-process, people choose sides, and the social media wars begin.
In any claim, evidence matters. Evidence always matters. But what happens when it’s just one person’s word against another’s, and the stories don’t agree? That’s when people tend to pass judgment on who is more credible than whom. And that’s when an impartial investigation can best serve the truth – and would have my full cooperation to do so."
He (NDT) goes on...
"I’ve recently been publicly accused of sexual misconduct. These accusations have received a fair amount of press in the past forty-eight hours, unaccompanied by my reactions. In many cases, it’s not the media’s fault. I declined comment on the grounds that serious accusations should not be adjudicated in the press. But clearly I cannot continue to stay silent. So below I offer my account of each accusation"
Again worth a read, and again he is not only not admitting sexual assault he is pointedly denying it.
It is risible at this time to talk of firing him based on what I read. His employers may favour a leave of absence of course, but they will undoubtedly have one eye on possible litigation from him if their actions defame a famous name prematurely.
NTG pulled up womans slieve and demanded to see where pluto was tattooed on her along with here solal system tatoo. In addition is accussed of drug induced rape by a credible collegue. Fire him soon, before it is too late. He clearly is an abuser. I would like to hear from the person to whom he said this quote because it may further implicate him in miscounduct.
"Fire him soon, before it is too late."
In the old days such hysteria would have gotten a black guy lynched. Now you just want him fired. Maybe that is progress.
And I still say, provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE or you are the asshole and should be fired from your current job for being an asshole.
You're sounding more and more like an angry theist with an axe to grind, and no scruples to me.
Care to address your lie that he (NDT) admitted sexual harassment, when in fact I linked two separate articles quoting him directly as denying the allegation?
The only thing that is clear is you have an agenda here, and care less whether the allegations are true, than taking an unscrupulous opportunistic pot shot at someone you don't like.
" I would like to hear from the person to whom he said this quote because it may further implicate him in miscounduct."
No it doesn't - Hitchens's razor applied.
Your hysteria is sounding more and more like trolling as well.
"NTG pulled up womans slieve and demanded to see where pluto was tattooed on her"
He denies this, and I linked him saying so. Even the woman in question doesn't claim this, but says he tried to peer down underneath the strap of her dress.
Wtf is a woman's *slieve (sic)?
"In addition is accussed of drug induced rape"
Which he categorically denies, we don't know who is credible and who not, that is what a trial is for. has he even been charged with any crime?
"He clearly is an abuser."
The only thing that is clear thus far is that you are a liar, and probably trolling.
" I would like to hear from the person to whom he said this quote "
Why, if you're going to ignore the quote?
"it may further implicate him in miscounduct."
You can't know that, you're simply making up wild assumptions now, trolltacular.
Lets wait and see what the evidence does and does not support, before you go ahead with your lynching.
We could assume he is innocent of a criminal offense until he has been proven guilty of a criminal offense.
"We could assume he is innocent of a criminal offense until he has been proven guilty of a criminal offense."
Indeed, and even if anyone chose to believe the worst here, the law still demands this assumption of innocence, and as yet I have read nothing that suggests he has even been charged with any crime.
I would hardly define my self as a mad theist, as I would like to ban circumcision, revoke tax exemptions for churches and put in solitary confinement forver those who circumcise girls as happened in Michigan. You don't need religion to tell you why NTG must be fired. Can anyone prove he did not say what he said?
I demand someone investigate the quote I posted. I gurantee you NTG will be fired with just cause.
"Can anyone prove he did not say what he said?"
Argumentum ad ignorantiam, and a pretty hilarious tautological fallacy as well. What are YOU claiming he said, and who has denied he said anything? Your take on what he has said doesn't remotely match what he is on record as saying, as we can see from your lie above that he has admitted sexual harassment. Something he has publicly denied fwiw.
Why has this got you so bent out of shape anyway?
"I demand someone investigate the quote I posted."
Once again then....
"I entered astrophysics graduate school directly out of college in 1980. It’s a grueling adventure-marathon, and many people do not finish the PhD. In fact, it was not uncommon for half the admitted students to leave after two or three years, finding some other kind of work in their lives. While in graduate school I had several girlfriends, one of whom would become my wife of thirty years, a mathematical physicist -- we met in Relativity class. Over this time I had a brief relationship with a fellow astro-graduate student, from a more recent entering class. I remember being intimate only a few times, all at her apartment, but the chemistry wasn’t there. So the relationship faded quickly. There was nothing otherwise odd or unusual about this friendship.
I didn't see much of her after that time. Our student offices were on different floors of the building and we were not in the same classes. A few years later, I ran into her, pregnant, with who I think was the father by her side. That’s when I had learned that she had dropped out of graduate school. Again, this is not itself an unusual fact, but I nonetheless wished her well in motherhood and in whatever career path would follow.
More than thirty years later, as my visibility-level took another jump, I read a freshly posted blog accusing me of drugging and raping a woman I did not recognize by either photo or name. Turned out to be the same person who I dated briefly in graduate school. She had changed her name and lived an entire life, married with children, before this accusation."
Once again he seems to be vehemently denying what you claimed he is guilty of and admitting to, odd that.
"I gurantee you NTG will be fired with just cause."
It's guarantee, and who the fuck is NTG? Your guarantee is risible here, you know nothing more than the rest of us. Your grasp of evidence and how the law works seems to be non-existent to me. Your histrionics about this accusation seem to lack credibility as well. If he's guilty of rape then let him be charged, and a trial prove it, then if he is guilty let the law take it's course. Your angry rant seems as pointless as it is ill informed.
But you are behaving exactly like a Religious Absolutist Madman.
Even a Religious Absolutist Madman can demand these things.
And I say you should be fired from your current job for being a Religious Absolutist Asshole.
No. But evidently you can. Did you have a hidden mike/vidcam during that situation in question? No? Then you, like a Religious Absolutist, are going to cherry-pick the evidence to fit your already presupposed assumption. It works vice versa.
And just like a Religious Absolutist, you cannot even get the facts straight. His name is Neil deGrasse Tyson, abbreviated as NDT, or NdGT. NOT NTG. Claim all you want about not being a Religious Absolutist and all you shall be doing is proving how one can spot a Religious Absolutist.
Unless you can provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, ...
The Nine Razors:
Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit non ei qui negat.
Don't make me sic Tin-Man on you. The results won't be pretty.
@highroller (aka: TROLL) Re: "Can anyone prove he did not say what he said?"
Hey, "genius"! Ever heard of "Innocent until proven guilty"? Perhaps YOU should prove that you didn't tell me you wanted to play on my playground and clean out my sewage system. After all, can you PROVE you never told me that?
(On a side note here, I really wouldn't mind trolls so much, but NONE of them as of late have been of ANY good quality. Seems our most recent trolls have been complete dumb-asses. And LAME. What a shame.)
@thehighrollerm85: I demand someone investigate the quote I posted.
You'd better take that demand and any evidence you might have to the FBI. This is the Atheist Republic, not the Justice Dept.
If you can find sexual harassment in an ambiguous statement about all sex organs and how they are used... You are an IDIOT.
What is more interesting is Mr. Tyson's view of sexual organs.
1. They are entertainment complexes. This view is just narrow minded. Indeed sexual functioning can be strictly entertaining; however, I pity the person with an inability to also use sexual intimacy for love, attachment, bonding, self identity, self worth and so much more. Sex as an "entertainment complex" says a whole lot more about Mr. Tyson's world view than it does anyone else's.
2. "In the middle of a sewage system." There are several ways to take this comment. Literally; in which case it is demonstrably true. Our sex organs are in the middle of our sewage systems. Metaphorical: Relating sex organs to sewage systems is generally something the religious do and I genuinely doubt he was making that analogy. He was pointing out a fact.
3. Mr. Tyson might have been equally correct had he said "One of the means for our most intimate form of attachment to others is located in the middle of a sewage system.
All we are really discussing is one's idea of the function of sexual organs. "A means of attachment" or "An entertainment complex." How you view your own sexual organs is your own business.
At no point is anything at all in the comment made by Mr. Tyson "Sexually Harassing." Who is he harassing? Frankly, if you feel harassed by a comment that makes a simple direct observation with an attempt at levity - YOU ARE AN IDIOT.