Why can’t we prove there isn’t a god?

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arakish's picture
Pirate Jack: "The Bible tells

Pirate Jack: "The Bible tells us many times that anyone with faith can have prayers answered! That is a fact. Jesus says he wants a relationship with us!"

They how come none have ever heard of any Christian praying for a mountain to be moved so they can build a church? Heysoos said anyone with enough faith could do so. Why do they have to rely on man and machines to move it for them?

Does this mean no Christian actually has any faith?

NOTE: May respond more. Say the citation part and immediately this popped into me head.

rmfr

Tin-Man's picture
Re: OP

Re: OP

Because God is "mysterious", and he won't prove he is real to you unless you believe he is real... (or some stupid shit like that). Remember, though, he loves you unconditionally... (Unless you don't believe in him and love him in return. In which case it's a one-way ticket for you to the eternal pool of fire. But he still loves you, nonetheless.)

Jo's picture
@ Pirate Jack

@ Pirate Jack

If the candle or curtain had flickered or moved, what would you think of that now? Now that you are older and wiser would you conclude that the most likely explanation is that there was some air blowing? Not that God was confirming himself to you?

At the time you were making an honest attempt to answer the question. An admirable mindset. But maybe in hindsight it was not the best way to test God. Would your test, if it had been successful, created a relationship with God? Or would it have been more like a pet that does tricks. Next time don't ask for a candle to flicker, ask for a billion dollars. :-)

When God does not appear when and how we want him to, one possible reason is because he does not exist. But is that the only possibility? If he had done what you wanted when you were a child it might have only temporarily proven God. But when you got older you probably would have doubted. So maybe that is why he did not cause the candle to flicker. Maybe he wanted to have a real relationship with you.

God is not answering all our prayers and making heaven on earth in the way and time frame we would like. "On earth as it is in heaven" But maybe his will is being accomplished? When we look over the last 8 thousand years we can see it slowly coming to pass. I know these are massive beliefs, but through the research and experimentations that is possible for the subject, it is what I have found.

We think we know what should happen, when, and how it should happen. But if God exists, he might know a little better than us, and do a better job of creating the heaven that our prayers desire. Because God does not do what we want when we want it, is not proof that he does not exist.

Maybe the reason you cannot prove there is, or is not a God, is because the tools you are using are inadequate for the task.

I am sure my fellow bloggers will skewer me for this post. But it is my honest, heartfelt, and genuine response to your question.

Cognostic's picture
@Jo: EXPERIMENTATION? I

@Jo: EXPERIMENTATION? I call bullshit! Please cite any experiment you have done to prove the existence of a god.

ex·per·i·ment
.
a scientific procedure undertaken to make a discovery, test a hypothesis, or demonstrate a known fact.
"I have tested this by experiment"
동의어: test, investigation, trial, inquiry, demonstration; 더보기
verb
/ikˈsperəmənt/
1.
perform a scientific procedure, especially in a laboratory, to determine something.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cog Re: To Jo - "Please

@Cog Re: To Jo - "Please cite any experiment you have done to prove the existence of a god."

Ummm... I'm gonna make a stab in the dark and take a swing at cracking this nut out on a limb here...

Jo prayed to God to get him a purple pony for his tenth birthday. But Jo did not get that purple pony, which means God answered Jo's prayer with a big, "NO!" So, obviously, if God did not exist, then how could God have refused to give Jo that purple pony? Simple logic. Duh!

Jo's picture
@ Tin Man

@ Tin Man

I have not done, nor do I know of any scientific experiments, that would prove or disprove God.

How did you know about the Purple Pony? Has God been telling on me? :-)

Tin-Man's picture
@Jo Re: "How did you know

@Jo Re: "How did you know about the Purple Pony? Has God been telling on me?"

Wellllll.... Maybe indirectly in some way. Can't say for sure, though. I actually heard it from the Ginormous Invisible Blue Universe-Creating Bunny that lives in my garage. And supposedly he heard about it from the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Pasta be unto him). And knowing FSM, there's no tellin' where HE heard it. But, hey, you know how these god characters are always gossiping. They all think they always HAVE TO KNOW everything.... *rolling eyes*... So, yeah, it is very likely your god was hanging out at the Gods Club one night and started bragging to some goddess about how powerful he was by denying you that pony. And, naturally, from there word got around.... *shrugging shoulders*...

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ TM

@ TM

So, yeah, it is very likely your god was hanging out at the Gods Club one night and started bragging to some goddess about how powerful he was by denying you that pony. And, naturally, from there word got around.... *shrugging shoulders*...

No, No Tin Man, that is supposition, Eric the Rainbow Farting Unicorn Who Lives in MY Garage told Walter, the Purple Wombat who does Square Poops that they were all in the God Club...(You know the one) when an unholy row broke out because Pegasus, Balaam's Donkey and that weirdo horsey thing that flew that pedo arab guy around the middle East found out that the Jesus' character's donkey was coveting her neighbour's ass who was married to the Purple Pony in question....well you can imagine. There was hoofticuffs at dawn. Naturally Eric tried to intervene but got thrown at the dartboard where he impaled the double top and just hung there dangling while the mayhem continued. It was Ishtar who sorted them out by pointing out they would all be as Thor as fuck the next day and, Woden they just all calm down? Do you feel Loki? she was heard to say.

Anypoo that's what happened , I have it from the horses mouth,,,via the wombat of course.

Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man Re: Fight Club in

@Old Man Re: Fight Club in the God Club

Ooooooh..... Okay! I get it! It wasn't that God was REFUSING to give Jo a purple pony, it was just that the purple pony was already betrothed and - judging from all the hubbub - likely going to be tied up in divorce court for a few years. Well now, that actually makes way more sense than my speculation. After all, when you think about it, the idea of any self-respecting goddess taking time to actually listen to God does seem rather far-fetched. Hope Eric is okay, at least. Too bad he couldn't have gotten the bullseye ring, though. Still, all things considered, you would think God would have at least had the common courtesy to send Jo a note or something to explain the situation. I mean, that whole "works in mysterious ways" excuse gets rather old after awhile.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Tin Man

@ Tin Man

Nah mate, jeez, talk about getting the wrong end of the stick. That "God" bloke (you know the one with the indivisible son and the ghostly detachable dick) as opposed to all the other sad sack masculine gods that hang around the Loser's Palace (aka God Club) has got fuck all say in the disposition of Purple Ponies.
He can pretend and blah blah about omnipotent but when it comes to cats, dogs and horses or horse type animals he is useless as tits on a bull. Mate, according to him, none of them have souls so he has no hold over them at all. Nothing, They just laugh at him, right to his face. He can't even demand a sacrifice anymore as the smell of burnt meat turns him right up (so he says, but read on for the real reason). Offends his nostrils or some such shite, fekkin bullshit.

Anyway Poseidon (Pegasus's Dad) heard about the Abrahamic pretender trying to give away ponies, and the Big P got well pissed, so he gathered the posse of Celtic horse gods like Rhiannon, Epona, Etain and Gontia and went looking for Him. They got him in the back room and, well the jewish guy, his son and the detachable holy dick got well fucked up. Hoof marks and bites all over. The mane thing is, that the tail was told or hocked all over , not a bit left out.
So, hearing this, Bast and the rest of the Feline entities including the fucking Sphinx for crissakes also paid YHWH a visit, and well, scratch that...he's knocking back all requests for livestock now, even puppies.. He was promised a visit by Khnum and Banebdjedet and they are a couple of psychos being egyptian sheep gods so he just went "noo" and gave up even the pretence of answering prayers, they still have a beef with the old Fart for demanding lambs in exchange for a rape or some such shite, and burning their firstborn at the altar. 4000 years and the boys are still pissed off about that. . .

Now he just leaves it to his 'faithful' humans (and they're falling by the wayside) to interpret random happenings as Him answering prayers. Fuck me, once Eric and Walter start with the gossip there's no stopping them.

Oh Walter, sends his regards..he has a sack of poo cubes for you..you needed to grow some Stinking Helibore?

Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man Re: "Nah mate, jeez

@Old Man Re: "Nah mate, jeez, talk about getting the wrong end of the stick...."

Awwwww SNAP! The plot does thicken! Well, THAT certainly explains plenty. Thanks for the info. As you may know, the Ginormous Invisible Blue Universe-Creating Bunny isn't much of a talker, so it would seem he DEFINITELY left out many details of the incident. Sure, he's all cute and cuddly, but his conversation skills are quite lacking. Oh, and tell Walter I said thanks. My supply is getting uncomfortably low. Ask him to please send them to the usual place, and I'll have a box of his favorite treats waiting for him there.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Tin Man

@ Tin Man

the Ginormous Invisible Blue Universe-Creating Bunny isn't much of a talker, so it would seem he DEFINITELY left out many details of the incident.

Well, that's another whole story according to Eric. Your mate BUCB doesn't so much create universes as gossip! Yep it was him that alerted the horse mob to YHWH's "commandment" ( as if it mattered) about coveting and asses... and that just pissed them off and got the whole thing started. BUCB is noted for causing trouble "stirring up shite" as it is known in the club.

They may well be blackballed at the next AGM, after all, lets remember what happened to that pedo guy...what was his name? Got chucked out? Ummmm...oh come on...the arab fella? Mo? Curly? Had a horse thing to heaven? Nah...its gone...never mind I will ask Walter, he is Membership Secretary now, so he will know.

Oh yes, after all the turmoil there has been a reorganisation at the very top of the God Club....some of the older members are experiencing a resurgence of believers (Or at least those who pretend to believe). Odin and Thor are back on the committee, Sauron is Off.... old "Untouchable Mary" has gone...total lack of faith in that one....BUCB is now Hall Porter. The "White Jesus" is now in charge of the english speakers only,( that's a BIG demotion from his previous position) Eric is Doorman ( he loves the tips, they put them on his horn)
Walter is in charge of valet parking and Membership ID...except for Santa's sleigh (Walter hates snow and reindeer) and Loki is now in charge of the Winter Pageant. That is going to be so much fun.
Mars stays where he is, in charge of war but he reckons if its is all going to be about oil in future he is resigning at next AGM. He hates grease...or did he mean Greece? Fuck these gods they never can lie straight in bed...everything a double entendre,
Oh Venus and Aphrodite send their love and hope you enjoy the present they sent you this weekend...ask your missus. Apparently its something to do with scaffolding? The leaning Tower of Pisa? Ah bollocks I give up its all fucking allegory with these dudes. Even Eric gets in on the game...

Jo's picture
@ Cognostic

@ Cognostic

I was using the same words that the OP had used, but I can see how it has meanings that I didn't intend. That is why I qualified it with what is possible for the subject. I was referring my looking at the evidence, asking questions, investigating, and formulating a conclusion

I have not done any scientific experiments on the subject. I don't know of any that could be done that would prove or disprove God.

Sheldon's picture
"I have not done any

"I have not done any scientific experiments on the subject. I don't know of any that could be done that would prove or disprove God."

Start by accurately defining what you mean by god. Until you do this with evidence to support this definition, there is nothing to answer or debate.

Cognostic's picture
@Jo "Kwel" We all do it

@Jo "Kwel" We all do it at times.... Keep on keeping on.... I just see things that stick out and respond to them.

Sheldon's picture
Anyone do Schrodinger's cat

Anyone do Schrodinger's cat yet? Also see Verschränkung, quantum superposition, and the Copenhagen interpretation.

Of course Schrodinger himself described the cat thought experiment as a "quite ridiculous case."

I am amazed theists don't cite this more often to shoehorn in the possibility of their deity's existence.

Cognostic's picture
@Sheldon Theists neither

@Sheldon Theists neither read nor do research. How in the hell are they going to know about Schrodinger's cat?

Tin-Man's picture
@Sheldon Re: Schrodinger's

@Sheldon Re: Schrodinger's cat

Aw shit, man! Don't go giving them any new ideas! I shudder to think how badly they will twist THAT around to suit their god agenda.... *face palm*...

Grinseed's picture
"Anyone do Schrodinger's cat

"Anyone do Schrodinger's cat yet?"

I did once.
In the garage.
I opened the box.
The cat was gone.
The box was empty except for a banana skin, a pig's nose and burn marks from a tricycle.
Quantum is really queer as.

Sheldon's picture
The Big Bang Theory's version

The Big Bang Theory's version was funnier.

"We left a cat locked in a camper van once, and forgot."

"We'd left a small window open, and as we got near it, we did not need to open that van to know there was all sorts of dead cat in there."

LogicFTW's picture
@OP

@OP

A slightly different answer:

I did not read the entire thread, (so forgive me if someone else already brought this up: but I think it is actually quite easy to prove there is no god.

One easy way of many to prove there is no god:
By proving "god" is a made up idea by humans. No humans no god. Pretty easy proof really.

If that does not make sense, imagine humans without widespread language. None of us would have ever heard of or even consider some super powered deity with a bunch of human like traits that we can not see that created everything. We would of simply just lived and died, just like we do now minus the whole completely ridiculous god concepts.

 
 

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Salieri's picture
"imagine humans without

"imagine humans without widespread language"

Thats right - there would be no religion.

But that does not mean there would be no god.

LogicFTW's picture
Define god. May be hard to do

Define god. May be hard to do with a complete lack of religion.

I imagine the best anyone could do is a seriously watered down version of the definition of god that is pretty much inconsequential. How could you separate the sun in our solar system from that god? Or should we start nicknaming our sun "god" ?

I see this a lot, where if one challenges the existence of god within a particular religion, they seperate out god from their religion and strip the god definition down to almost nothing to make the god concept/definition almost unreachable to any sort of real inquiry on it. (Think god of the gaps these days.) But they don't realize the newly created god definition essentially excludes their religion. They can not have it both ways.

Again it comes down to a complete lack of any sort of evidence for god, once you take out widespread language. Meaning all evidence for god is human generated, human language generated. Take away widespread language and "god" disappears almost entirely.

 
 

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Tips on forum use. ▮ A.R. Member since 2016.
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KelseyR's picture
God is one of three magic

God is one of three magic components, so God can be obliquely proven to not exist by proving that the correct belief class involves the natural rather than the magical.It's as simple and as difficult as that. I can do it.

Nyarlathotep's picture
You might be able to provide

You might be able to provide some colloquial proof for it; but you can't do it formally for the same reason I can't prove I ate (or didn't eat) pancakes for breakfast this morning.

Salieri's picture
I always try to avoid saying

I always try to avoid saying I believe there is no god or gods.

This invariably leads to the shifting of the burden of proof.

I actually believe there are no gods or god and believe I have strong justification, as I think it is not unreasonable to assume things dont exist until there is some evidence for their existence, particularly in the case of supernatural entities. But when you are debating with theists they will always bog you down and start claiming you have faith. I have even been accused of proselytising.

Randomhero1982's picture
Russell's teapot.

Russell's teapot.

Cognostic's picture
Russell's Teapot is

Russell's Teapot is falsifiable. Most Gods are not.

SeniorCitizen007's picture
Some time ago I saw a claim

Some time ago I saw a claim that when people are asked if they believe in God whilst their brains are being scanned the results always indicate that they are lying.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@SC007

@SC007

That's is utter bollocks otherwise the cops would be trumpeting their new failsafe way of locking up the crims while allowing white collar crime to go unpunished.

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