Why Do Atheists Lack Belief in God? When There is Evidence for God

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Anonymous's picture
Why Do Atheists Lack Belief in God? When There is Evidence for God

That which does not exist, non-existence of nothingness can't cause or create something because it doesn't exist; besides, we have evidence only for causation and no hard evidence of something from nothing.

Other atheists try a different tactic with nature. They say there was an infinite regress of cause and effects, but if that were true, you would have had an eternity to come into being before now so you should have already happened.

Therefore, nature or the universe needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated by the uncreated Creator God.

Very simple so anyone can understand.

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Lmale's picture
I thought you said you had

I thought you said you had evidence of god im sorely dissapointed.
All you have done is said you dont understand so must have been god.
Your argument is something cant come from nothing or not have a cause did you forget your precious god came from nothing and had no cause roflmao.
First do check quantum theory it has proben something came from nothing.
Second read anything on the big bang before arguing against it.

Shock of God's picture
God didn't come from nothing,

God didn't come from nothing, in the sense that you are using it here; as in God came into existence out of nothingness. God came from nothing in the sense that God is eternal and so has no beginning and no cause.

And quantum mechanics has not demonstrated that anything can come from nothing. What quantum mechanics has discovered is that, at the lowest possible energy level, there is not a void of nothingness, but rather a field of fluctuating energy and fleeting electromagnetic waves. These fields are known as quantum vacuum states.
A quantum vacuum state is not nothing. And the fluctuations of the energy can temporarily manifest into (i.e., cause) quantum virtual particles and their anti-particle pairs to come into existence; the particles annihilate each other and the energy is returned to the quantum vacuum state.

Ellie Harris's picture
Again the Kalam arugment. it

Again the Kalam arugment. it still takes you back to a logical fallacy reviving.
"In Dan Barker's article Cosmological Kalamity, he writes

The curious clause “everything that begins to exist” implies that reality can be divided into two sets: items that begin to exist (BE), and those that do not (NBE). In order for this cosmological argument to work, NBE (if such a set is meaningful) cannot be empty[2], but more important, it must accommodate more than one item to avoid being simply a synonym for God. If God is the only object allowed in NBE, then BE is merely a mask for the Creator, and the premise “everything that begins to exist has a cause” is equivalent to “everything except God has a cause.” As with the earlier failures, this puts God into the definition of the premise of the argument that is supposed to prove God’s existence, and we are back to begging the question."

Shock of God's picture
The problem with this entire

The problem with this entire argument is that it rests on the assumption that God was put in the set for no reason. We can justify why God does not begin to exist with the following argument:

1.) The cause of space and time must be timeless.
2.) Timeless entities do not move through time.
3.) Change is to move through time.
4.) From (2) and (3), timeless entities cannot change.
5.) To come into or go out of existence is change.
6.) Timeless entities cannot change (4).
7.) Timeless entities can neither come into nor go out of existence.
8.) Timeless entities must exist ceaselessly (eternally).
9.) From (1), God is timeless.
10.) From (4), (5), (6), and (8), God must exist eternally.

Since we have justified why God does not begin to exist and so why He has no cause, the fallacy of special pleading is avoided.

CyberLN's picture
Your argument is chock full

Your argument is chock full of assumptions, shock. Every single one of your ten steps is assumptive.

Lmale's picture
Lol theist 'logic' its like

Lol theist 'logic' its like watching a toddler trying to drive a car.

Shock of God's picture
Please demonstrate any

Please demonstrate any supposed invalidities, don't merely assert them.

Demonstrate how my argument is purely assumptive. Even though it's not.

Lmale's picture
1 you assume god exists this

1 you assume god exists this has not i repeat NOT been proven.
2 you assume that the universes cause cannot be timeless this has not i repeat NOT been proven.
3 you assume a timeless being cannot move through time exactly where do you get that from lol

Lmale's picture
4 you assume timeles entities

4 you assume timeles entities cannot change. You must be aware the ot god is different to the nt god ergo change.
5 you assume timeless entities cannot enter or leave existence without realising if that was true it would mean they cannot exist lol

Lmale's picture
Now lets look at facts

Now lets look at facts
You have not even proved your god exists therefor you cannot prove any abilities of said god.

Shock of God's picture
First of all, my entire

First of all, my entire argument is a given; IF God exists, THEN He is timeless.

Secondly, change cannot occur without time, which began to exist at the Big Bang given our current evidence. Therefore, the cause of time must exist sans time. You can't build a bench and sit on it at the same time.

Since change requires time, and the cause of time must be timeless, the cause cannot come into nor go out of existence, as both of those are forms of change, which requires time.

Ellie Harris's picture
"Continuing this type of

"Continuing this type of conversation motivates me to leave this forum."-
That's your choice, but anyone can debate any TC on any topic as long as both debate within the rules. If that really bothers you enough to leave then do so, but anyone can debate what they choose to within the rules.

Lmale's picture
Yea tho im wary that thos guy

Yea tho im wary that thos guy started when chuck stopped.

Anonymous's picture
We observe trillions of cause

We observe trillions of cause and effects in nature, and no hard evidence of something from nothing or non-existence. Therefore, let us be humble and just adhere to this evidence that the odds are highly in our favor and atheists are gambling with odds against more than a trillion to 1. As well, in observing nature if there was this alleged infinite regress of cause and effects atheists special plead for from the argument of ignorance, we would have had an eternity to come into being before now, so we should have already happened -- as we would have had literally an eternity to do so. So nature needs a cause outside of itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated by the uncreated Creator whom we refer to as God. Moreover, any theory that is self-contradictory must be thrown out as well. The contradiction is you would also never have existed because if a past eternity was going on forever, it would continue to do so forever never reaching this point. I don't see much if any redeeming quality to atheism in light of this evidence. It is logically and morally bankrupt. It is morally bankrupt lacking logic, but also in claiming everyone just ceases to exist the worse murderer and rapists get equal treatment with the most kind and generous person so consequently, it doesn't matter if you murder, rape and steal because the judgment in the end is no different than if you were the kindest, sweetest and most loving person. Atheism is the epitome of evil and must be rebuked at all costs because it is ruining the fabric of society.

CyberLN's picture
Atheism must be rebuked at

Atheism must be rebuked at all costs? Just what are those costs?

CyberLN's picture
You going to answer this

You going to answer this question or not?

Wireguy73's picture
I would type out huge

I would type out huge response to this rambling triad of willful ignorance, but there are dozens of threads here that already address your god of gaps and argument from ignorance. Please go read one of those and you will likely find a response to each one of your silly claims.

Zyklus's picture
You say that we have evidence

You say that we have evidence for thinge existing with cause, and no evidence for anything existing from nothing. But then you say that we have a God that is timeless and has existed eternally, but we have never had evidence for that. And if you say God has always been, then why can't you say the universe has always been? Same difference.

Lmale's picture
Revivin has been banned just

Revivin has been banned just so you know.

Ellie Harris's picture
revivin you are still begging

revivin you are still begging the question. As for how evil and immoral atheism is
1) If your god exist then rapist, murderers, child abusers, genocidal madmen, etc can go to heaven just by sincerely believing in god.
2) If god exist you could be a good "moral," person that was raised to believe in the wrong god & still be sent to eternal torture.
3) If your god exist, it was his plan for atheism and atheist to exist. So why would you rebuke your god's plan?

Anonymous's picture
Ellie,

Ellie,

If you did these horrible things then gave your life to Christ the Holy Spirit would restrain you from doing these things ever again. If you were raised to believe in the wrong God you are without excuse because Rom. 1.20 says simply by observing the mountains and stars you know God exists enough to reject those false idols worshiped by those around you. Therefore, if you were presented Jesus and the gospel you would accept it and be saved. God takes this into account. God's plan was to give you the free will otherwise His creation could not be as great as it is (we are not a bunch of automatons); so your free choice to eternally reject God is met with God preparing a place for you in Hell with all the rapists, murderers, and anyone else who exalts himself by refusing God's saving grace by what Jesus did for us on the cross. You can see always at every turn your objections are filled with mistaken assumptions about reality, and the reason you do that is because of selfishness, self-centeredness and no humility. Of course if you want to remain delusional you are free to do so, but you will have to do so in Hell. You are not allowed in the New City and New Earth because there is just the love of God and no sin. You prefer to be in the place devoid of God's love and presence and so shall it be for you. I am sad for you that this is the type of person you want to be.

Lmale's picture
Erm statistics prove atheists

Erm statistics prove atheists are the most moral religions commit a higher crime rate.
Shrinks say its the forgoveness for everything and everyone not of your religion being inferior that makes religious more likely to commit crimes.
They also say atheists value life higher as we know its all there is religious people are just waiting to die for their rewards.
By the way christianity is only 2000 years old we have written records going back 15000 years and morality existed bfore christianity infact christianity caused morality to devolve thanks to leviticus judges and deuteronomy.
Morality is an evolutionary adaptation.

Anonymous's picture
Lmale,

Lmale,

The numbers for atheists are horrific. Stalin killed 40 million. Mao killed 60 million. And I have never even heard of an atheist charity. Most charities are Christian. In Christianity though you can't lose eternal life once saved, you can lose the reward of returning to reign over the nations with Christ for 1000 years. That's a long time to lose out. So this is a major consequence of remaining a carnal Christian. The fact that Christians have made the superior choice should not be cause to blame us. That would be like accusing a person for getting a higher score on an exam. If anything you sound jealous. He should be commended not downcast. Christianity goes all the way back to Gen. 1.1 which goes all the way back to the big bang when God created the universe. The morality of Christianity is different than the morality of Atheists, Mormons, Muslims, Hindus, etc. We in Christ do not believe in salvation by works lest any man should boast. The morality in the Pentateuch was righteous and kept Israel together to usher in the Messiah. Of all the tribes and nations in Canaan, Israel is the only nation that remains showing what God did was right in giving Israel the law of the OT. It held Israel together like glue. I don't see any moral guideposts without the center which is Christ because only He kept the law perfectly and only He was sinless. Why follow a lesser morality that has a lower center or one of your own making that differs from the guy across the street? The reason why Christianity is true is because it teaches correctly everyone is born into sin and commits sin. Sin leads to death and the second death which is Hell. What makes Christianity unique is the 2nd Person of the Godhead enters His creation to pay that penalty in our place so that we don't have to go to Hell if we come to the cross as helpless sinners to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior. God does this not only for us so we can eventually attain a selflessly perfect sinless life in time, but God does it for Himself, because He can't have fellowship with someone who does not accept forgiveness on the cross of salvation when Jesus' precious blood was shed. God is infinitely greater than us, and there is no way for us to work to get to Him, so God condescends Himself down to us to bridge that infinite gap.

Lmale's picture
Erm by the way mormons are a

Erm by the way mormons are a denomination of christianity:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

ex-christian_atheist's picture
"The numbers for atheists are

"The numbers for atheists are horrific. Stalin killed 40 million. Mao killed 60 million." So the number for atheists is 2?

"And I have never even heard of an atheist charity." Doctors without Borders, Goodwill, The Nature Conservancy, The SEED Foundation, S.H.A.R.E., United Children's Fund, Wheelchair Organization. Just to name a few.

"In Christianity though you can't lose eternal life once saved" This is not objectively true. Many Christians believe you can be truly saved and then fall away. There are many differing views, and seeing how the Bible is vague and often contradictory, the support for onme view is often as good as the other.

"Christianity goes all the way back to Gen. 1.1 which goes all the way back to the big bang when God created the universe." Christianity did not originate before Christ. What the Bible claims is that Judiasm began at the beginning of human creation. But the Bible is not truth. Historically, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and many polytheistic religions are older than Judaism, Hinduism being the oldest.

"We in Christ do not believe in salvation by works lest any man should boast." Why not, The Bible says faith is useless without works. Jesus said "If you want to enter life, keep the commandments." James says "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?....Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

"I don't see any moral guideposts without the center which is Christ" Buddhism teaches many of the same things, and plenty more moral things than Jesus taght, before he was ever born.

Ellie Harris's picture
"Therefore, if you were

"Therefore, if you were presented Jesus and the gospel you would accept it and be saved. God takes this into account. God's plan was to give you the free will otherwise His creation could not be as great as it is,"-
About 5 billion infants too neurologically young to make any thing resembling a god have either been sent to hell or purgatory.

Ellie Harris's picture
If god is all powerful, all

If god is all powerful, all knowing, and ever present then why are you theist speaking for him? Free will also doesn't mean much considering gawd already knows all. He already knew that original sin woud happen, already knew that Hitler (a good old testament type of xtian) would commit genocide. Note that the number of innocent infants/fetus' is far greater than Mao, Stalin, or Hitler. That's not even counting the billions that died due to wars over which religion is correct.

Lmale's picture
Stalin and hitler were

Stalin and hitler were catholic stalin was raised to be a catholic priest roflmao@u i dont know about mao but pole pott also wasn't atheist and christians claim he was.
Religions started a hell of alot of wars atheism has not.
An atheist country may start a war for power or resources but not for atheism.
http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/57078-refuting-the-myth-that-hitler-st...

Lmale's picture
"Christians have made the

"Christians have made the superior choice"
How fucking arrogant are you. Christians dont choose to be christians their parent force it on them before their minds are capable of telling fact from fiction and of knowing parents can be wrong.
Your ancestors were likely converted to christianity by force.
No choice was involved.

CyberLN's picture
Revivin,

Revivin,
Did Stalin or Mao kill in the name of atheism? You'll find the answer to that is no.

Earlier you said Atheism should be rebuked at all costs. I ask you again, define those costs. Because it sounds like you are suggesting atheists should be killed in the name of your religion.

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