Why is God NOT real?

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mysticrose's picture
Relying our safety to a god

Relying our safety to a god that we are not sure about is like jumping of the cliff without a parachute and any assurance that we will be safe. I think it's quite stupid to disregard common sense because of belief.

Lmale's picture
Umm what made you think

Umm what made you think humans stopped evolving?

ChildofGod's picture
im not saying humans arent

im not saying humans arent evolving im saying evolution in general. Why aren't we still seeing it to this day STILL

Zaphod's picture
I don't know why I bother

I don't know why I bother with you, lets take dog breeding as an example.

The reason I choose dog breeding is because all dogs descend from wolves. this is a known fact and its indisputable. lets used the goldendoodle for example if you go to the GANA.org site you can see their Breeder policies and Guidlines http://www.goldendoodleassociation.com/breeder_policies.aspx these are necesary to safely create and maintain a breed. Far to often people wanting to make a quick buck will create a dog with the desirable without following such guidelines and it leads to serious problems. To safely breed a dog following these minimal guidelines is required I point this out to show you that it can make for a complicated process. If you want to create a breed your looking at devoting your entire life to get it to the point where the traits are fixed and finding homes for or extermination of many thousands of dogs that basically will be dead and gone long before you get the end result. As you can tell this is a complex process which ultimately is possible within our lifetimes and which makes breeding dogs a possibility, another example is beans and fruit-fly's which can both be sent through the stages at a faster rate. Once the genes have been set you can pass this saga along to you relatives who with luck will be able to establish this brood if you will of dogs with a large enough pool to not have much inbreeding and maintain the breed, its actually a monumental task and dogs live for on average a range of between 5 and 27 years depending on breed and care however can reproduce at 6 months making this all possible.

There are three main factors to genetic diversity and they are Migration Mutation and Selection the part I want to focus on here is Selection. Selection in nature is a long drawn out process a major contributor to it is survival of the fittest where the fittest survive and reproduce more generally effecting the gene pool on a larger scale than those who are less fit depending on the environment where something lives and this is where migration plays into the equation one may be better suited to the environment than those around them and will likely be more attractive to those who share the same environment and live longer than those who are less attractive presenting them with more opportunities to reproduce and pass its genetics on to future gene pools. Mutations are usually not desirable but sometimes turn out to be, though this happenes less frequently than not and many things can cause mutation which I will not get into for the sake of this debate. When something does not fit in to its environment it is best that that thing find an environment it does fit in better with especially on where it fits in better with its environment than its peers do allowing it to thrive and become the natural selection. Natural selection though is not evolution but just something that can influence it just as artificial selection or selective breeding can.

In "artificial" or "manual" or selective breeding which is what is at play when someone wants to use micro evolution to create a new breed which if contained long enough will eventually result in it pool becoming a species to and of itself or macro evolution like what has happened with cats, which I had to spell out to Shock of God I believe it was earlier, resulting in animals that are not genetically close enough to be inter-fertile meaning they can produce mules but are not inter-fertile meaning they can not produce viable offspring cats is actually not the best example because under certain selections the offspring can still be viable. There are many example of animals that can produce nonviable offspring. Eventually with enough containment of breed and selective breeding and hundreds or thousands of years of practice you can produce a breed to and unto itself which will not breed at all with its genetics source as its source will be too far removed. At this point you no longer have a subcategory if a species but a specimen which only share close enough genetic material to breed with its own breed or to put it another way a specie to and of itself at which point it will be macro evolved enough to have incompatible DNA. We have examples of these differing stages of the process all over the place.

Now when it come to humans, we can reproduce at about the age 13 on average, which makes for it taking a very very long time to even capable of reproduction making it hard to compare to dogs with their, in a controlled environment, 6 month development period. Clearly it would take many generations to even get anywhere with Human selective breeding practices. I believe it takes about 30 generations to set a trait on a micro scale just imagine the time it would take to do on a macro scale. Today most effective tactic if you wanted to influence human genetics would be to kill off everyone who does not have desirable genes or who has undesirable genes which is one reason why genocide is often instigated. Then take into account the current mean age of motherhood in various countries https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2256.... and then you easily understand how it may be happening but is hard to see if you don't understand it even though evidence of it is all around you.

I have a feeling this will all be lost on you and prove to have nothing but a waste of my time. So suffice to say, its a test to see if your smart enough to debate, have future debates with or if your far to ignorant to waste time on. To pass this test you must demonstrate a clear understanding of what has been put forth here and bring more to the table which will ultimately make you come to the conclusion that is all around us or come up with sufficient evidence to the contrary. But I am sick of you responding like you have never really done much of any research. Your old enough to understand how to research thing at this point and we should not have to do it for you. Your old enough to know how to ask questions and let those questions lead you places which in turn lead to more questions. your old enough to have a mind of your own. I can understand someone being a theist and actually enjoy conversation with some this on this site, but those who act like they have lived under a rock have no excuses in my book if they are on this site because they have access to one of the most powerful research tools that exist to this day, its called the internet.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
Just saying, I am a

Just saying, I am a laboratory scientist, and one of the departments I work in is the microbiology lab. I literally witness evolution in the lab. I'm not talking adaptation. I mean actually changing into new species. We are seeing it to this day, in species that have very short life spans and quick reproduction rates. To assume you would see speciation in an animal that doesn't reproduce literally multiple times per day, you would be demonstating a lack of understanding of how evolution works. As everyone else pointed out, it is a slow process, and while the surival or failure of a mutation is guided by natural selection, whether or not a tangible mutation occurs is completely random. It takes a while. Most genetic changes don't change the physiology of an organism.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
wow nice ex-christian

wow nice ex-christian

If I may?
can you point me in the rigth direction on where to gether information on major genetic deformities in humans.

i would like to confirm exactly how much major deformities humans have compared to other species.

From what I have manged to gather(correct me if I am wrong) there are around 4000+ major genetic deformities in the human genetic pool.
Can you confirm this and point me to reliable data about names and things related to this.


Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Also I am very interested

Also I am very interested about those few that kill you before you reach the age of puberty.

As far as I know there are a good 24 of those or a similar number that are part of the human MAJOR genetic deformities.

ex-christian_atheist's picture
I am not a genetecist or

I am not a genetecist or anything. I work with bacteria specifically. I don't think I can help you with human deformities.

Jeff Vella Leone's picture
Ahh ok thanks anyway.

Ahh ok thanks anyway.

Lmale's picture
Evolution is a

Evolution is a slowwwwwwwwwwwwww process weve been studying it for 155 years it takes millions of years for a new species to evolve but we have observed 'micro' evolution. Your never going to see an ape give birth to a human or something like that its small changes that continue until you can say that they are no longer the same species because they cant mate and produce fertile offspring.

Lmale's picture
Look at the lion and the

Look at the lion and the tiger just one example dna proved they have a common ancestor but now they cannot mate and produce fertile offspring. Same with the zebra and the horse. Theres more google species that produce infertile offspring.

CyberLN's picture
Although I agree with you,

Although I agree with you, Lmale, that the evolutionary process is very long indeed, I will add an adjust your statement about fertility in the offspring of lions and tigers. Female offspring (both ligers and tigons) are fertile. However, since the male offspring are not fertile, a male and female from the lion and tiger combo cannot mate with each other.


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