Was visiting my christian grandparents back in the countyside.They were watching the God channel about some christian crusade,I really didn't care about.The things got fucked up.
A dude got onto the pulpit with crutches,he could barely balance.Then he lay prostate on the floor as the pastor prayed.I was smiling devilishly on the inside and rolling my eyes at the clueless nerd when suddenly shit happened.
The guy got up slowly starting walking on his two fucking feet (my smile died down).Then he broke into a run whilst doing somersaults as the audience shouted,"Its a MIRACLE!".
WTF!Whats going on here?
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What do you think is going on ? These side show acts are well documented to be deceitful. The most obvious explanation is the somersaulting man is a confederate working for the preacher.
True, if not absolutely true. Look at where the Church resides to to gain more Believers. Funny how Centuries ago, INQUISITION was such a effective tool for them - But of course, it was not a Evil Thing, "GOD WILLED IT", as if these "Men Of Cloth" knew what the so-called "God" desired, nonetheless the poor "Heretics" who were nothing more then Prosecuted Innocent people who wouldn't kneel to the Church's Demands.
A good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNl52deOZro
Personally, when they start faith healing amputees, then I might be interested:http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/
I went to a Bennie Hinn Crusade about ten years ago - out of curiosity. It was disgusting. At the end of the service there were hundreds of crutches , wheelchairs , and walkers in a pile on stage. ( Notice I said stage , not altar .) As people were filing out the spotlights were shining on the assistive device debris while the handicapped hobbled outside supported by friends and family.
I work in rehabilitation nursing . I can definitely say this : Most people who have walkers , wheelchairs , canes etc. can do without them for short distances. Perhaps they are fall prone or tire easily. perhaps they have been told to not bear weight on a brittle bone. Perhaps they have a weakened heart that works at 25% capacity and they will exhaust themselves after 100 feet of walking. They are not all paraplegic.
All I witnessed at that Bennie Hinn show was a couple of hundred fleeced of their money who were needing to fork out more the next day to buy a new wheelchair.
OK…so the preacher stops the singing and calls for volunteers from the congregation who need healing to come forward…..
Two people stand up and make their way down to the raised dais ,where the preacher conducts his healings……
The first one to reach the platform is a man … apparently fit and healthy….
“And what is your name and what is the nature of your affliction sir ?” asks the preacher.
The man replies ,” My name ith mithter Thmith ..and I hhhhave a thpeach imp…..imp….impediment”.
The preacher repeats ,“Mister Smith and you have a speech impediment.?”
“Yeth” says the man.
By now the second person ,a woman , has made it to the dais.
She is on crutches…..
“And you good lady ,what is your name and how are you afflicted?”.
“Well Pastor ,my name is Mrs Jones and my legs don’t work properly”.
The pastor continues ….. “Will you two please step behind this screen….and we’ll start the ceremony.”
They step behind the screen….. the pastor goes into his routine….. finishing with great cries of “HEAL them …Heal them !”.
The hall becomes filled with an almost physical silence….
The Pastor calls out ,”Mrs Jones…..throw away your crutches….”
The noise is some how extra loud as the crutches sail over the screen and land with a clatter on the dais.
Again the Pastor calls out ,”Mr Smith….. say some thing.”
There is a total hush in the hall………. Then
From behind the screen ……
.
.
.
” Mithith Joneth hath fffallen over !”.
When seeing something like this, the first thing you should ask yourself is why the hell does he not help all those in need before making a show for the believers?
From then on it is self evident that even Jesus did not care about the people but it is all for the show.
In-fact he came to Palestine and only cared for the guys he happen to bump with him on his trip.
It is all just to show off, starting from Jesus himself.
After that realization do you even need to consider if this was a trick or not, knowing it's purpose?
Yeah,it must have been a prank.And thanks for the link on amputees (the guy with a complex name). Watchman,thats just the humour I needed to laugh this shit off.
Yeah as others have said, many people who use walking devices don't need to them to walk 10 feet. But the way you describe the incident; I'd have to say this is more than just the wishful thinking of normal faith healers/audiences; that sounds like a scripted performance with a confederate! I wonder if faking a miracle to increase donations is fraud? Well since being a pastor isn't considered a fraud by the law, this probably won't be either.
Why doesn't faith healing preachers like that tour the hospitals the world over? Just walk in and heal people with terminal conditions, chronic diseases, amputees, paraplegics and so on?
They should still be able to make a lot of money, by just accepting donations. I wouldn't mind contributing money for a private jet for that kind of faith healing preachers.
Idiotic fake miracles repel more people than they attract and surely gives Christianity a bad name. But there are many claimed religious miracles that deserve a second look.
A friend of mine, who had no interest whatsoever in religion, once found himself at a Christian service (he tagged along with his aunty coz he had nothing better to do that evening) and experienced what some would consider a (healing) miracle. After that he believed! Very interesting case.
My brand of agnosticism says that science can't explain everything.
Thomas the Doubter : My brand of agnosticism leads me to use doubt as a guiding light. I should think that in claiming the title "Doubter" for yourself credulity would shine a little brighter.
@ Thomas the Doubter
For sure, there are many things outside the current realm of science. But that does not automatically infer any religious beliefs as true. Why would it?
"After that he believed!"
Believed in what exactly? And does he even know why he believes?
I'm quite certain that there was noting within the "miracle healing" itself that was explicitly tied to Christianity. Just as the placebo effect has no ties to any specific religion.
What I meant was he believed in Jesus Christ; he became a Christian. As I mentioned he previously wasn't interested in religion at all; in fact he thought religion was ridiculous.
Anyway, when he arrived inside the church he sat down in the rear pew, not wanting to get involved. (It was some kind of evangelical service.) At some point in proceedings, the pastor said, "The Holy Spirit is telling me that there is a young man here who suffers serious back pain as a result of a car accident. Step forward please, in order that I might heal you." On hearing this, my mate, David, thought to himself "He's talking about me!" but he didn't step forward then coz he felt kinda bamboozled and silly.
However, at the end of the service he decided to present himself to the pastor and said to him, "I'm the young man with the back pain you spoke about." The pastor said "Oh good; I knew you here somewhere. Please come and sit in this chair, I want to lay hands on you." David sat down in the chair and pastor simply placed his hands of his head. Immediately David was struck by a what he described to me as a huge blast of electricity, and the next thing he could recall was being on the floor, wondering what the hell had just happened .
Anyway, the severe and chronic back pain he had suffered for years was gone. He was cured of it. When I met David, about three years had passed since this event. That's how and why David became a Christian.
When the faith healers start healing amputees, I'll start paying attention.
Good point, although I did hear of a miracle that involved the total rebuild of an inner-ear. Someone had some awful disease that competely destroyed one of their inner-ears, as in, the damage was so bad that there was no anvil and stirrup left. The miracle saw the reapperance on these parts and hearing was restored.
You heard of it? Yeah, you sound like a real doubter...
I don't doubt that miracles happen. For example, when I was sixteen years of ageI had a vision of the future. Strangely enough, it happened in the middle of a game of rugby. An opposition player kicked the ball very high in the air, and while it was up there, I suddenly had a vision of what was going to happen next. It was just like a little movie in my head.
The vision showed me that as the ball came down, two players from the opposition team would go up to try and catch it, but they would get in other's way and the ball would hit one of them and take a big bounce of about 20 feet in a certain direction.
I thought to myself, "Right, I know exactly what is going to happen and where this ball is going to be after it bounces off those two players" ... and where is was going to be was about 25 feet in front of me. So as the ball came down I ran full speed to where the vision told me the ball was going to bounce.
Well, believe or not, when the ball came down it did exactly what the vision told me it was going to do - the two opposition players jumped up to catch it, got in other's way and the ball bounced off one of them to precisely the predicted place. If fact, it was so precise that when I got there it fell straight into my arms! I didn't have to deviate one inch!
After I caught the ball I ran unopposed to score (which wasn't hard because I'd effectively wrong-footed the opposition players, as they were all headed to where the ball was going to land, not knowing - as I did - that upon landing it would take a big bounce in an unexpected direction).
My team mates ran to congratulate me and they asked me how I knew where the ball was going to land. They were baffled, as they'd seen me running to where the ball would eventually end up ... before it had come back down and taken the big bounce off those two opposition players.
The moral of the story is, there are deeply mysterious and powerful forces out there that science hasn't got a hope in hell of explaining. Miracles are called miracles because they defy scientific explanation. Science is way overrated; I believe it's actually very puny in the grand scheme of things. All it will ever be able to do is scratch the surface of reality.
It's not science's job to explain everything. The burden of proof is on those who make these claims. Any such proof must begin with a careful documentation of all the pertinent facts. Absolutely nothing is taken for granted. Needless to say, without careful documentation even eyewitness claims are scientifically worthless. Science has good reason for rejecting anecdotal evidence.
Some claims of religious miracles are unconvincingly infantile and ridiculous. The Catholic church, on the other hand, has what I think is a very sensible approach to evaluating claims of miracles. They are intelligent to know that they're reputation is at stake in these cases, so nothing and no one is taken for granted. Every possibility is considered - including every scientific possibility. This process can take years sometimes and declared miracles are actually pretty rare, considering the number of claims that are made. The scientific experts they employ in this task are not all Christians; some are agnostics, some are atheists.
Why is there no outrage?
By this I mean: why is there no outrage inside the Christian community. Put yourselves in the shoes of the believer for a moment. You've been raised your whole life to believe that god can preform medical miracles through the work of special ministers (faith healers). You've probably seen demonstrations of it in your community by travelling faith healers. Meanwhile, here in the United States at your local Veterans Administration (VA) hospital there are probably dozens of people who are missing arms and legs, the majority of which are Christian and believe in the power of prayer. If you believed all this stuff, wouldn't you be trying to get the faith healers down to the VA? Protesting at the VA to get them to bring in faith healers? Loading up a van of veterans with missing limbs to get them to the faith healer? No; strangely we do not seem to see anything like this. Why is there no outrage?
Anyway I doubt we will get an answer from a believer, but many of the forum members were former believers. If any of you previously believed in faith healing---and feel comfortable doing so---could you try to play devil's advocate for a moment and give us some insight?
"I BELIEVE IN MIRACLES."
This according to me something in itself that refutes religion.
1. God is all knowing and so knows the future. He is all powerful and so has decided how the future will be. If the future was his plan why would he need to change is plan. Was he wrong the first time round or his he making a mistake now by interfering.
2. What would be the need for God to lay out a scenario where things got horribly wrong before he decides to intervene by completely dismantling the laws he "apparently" laid down to accomplish the task.
3. Is he so indecisive that he does not know what he wants.
4. God decides to intervene in a game of rugby where no matter who won no significant result was expected but he lets small kids die of cancer. Where the "Hell" is their miracle?
If god believing people believe in miracles it can only mean that miracles are the work of the DEVIL right. I mean the only one who messes with Gods plan is the DEVIL. He decides to suspend gods shitty plans and help people out.
The DEVIL helped those people walk.
The DEVIL cures people
The DEVIL can walk on Water.
The DEVIL gave you your vision
OH wait Jesus did that too........ Doesn't that mean Jesus is the Devil........