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The nicest way I can say it is: those sound like the ravings of a credulous person.
But I did get a chuckle out of the bold part.
@ Great Hope
Here is some free knowledge for you...there is NO contemporary evidence for the existence of your jesus/god. None. Try looking it up and anything else I manage to mention here. Don't apologise, don't cry, cold hard fact should empty your head of woo woo nonsense.
The synoptic "gospels" were all copied from Mark, the first two chapters of Matthew were added later to be compatible with the prophecy in Isaiah.
Paul only wrote three of the Epistles, possible a fourth the others are all either by different authors or forged.
The "paul" (who no one knows whether he existed either) of the Epistles bears little or no resemblance to the "paul" described in Acts.
There is no eye witness accounts of the crucifixion, no reports of the "darkness over the land" or mysterious voices from the sky.
On the resurrection there is no contemporary record of all the other Jewish scholars who wandered the streets of Jerusalem having been woken from their graves....you would have thought that if the scribes of the time can record trivia like how many honey cakes legionnaire Caius can eat at one sitting, then a mob of zombies would have been newsworthy.
The earliest complete bible we have (contains the modern testament and the pentateuch) is the Codex Sinaiticus, it is Koine Greek dating to the early 4th century CE and is being studied and translated as we speak. So far there there are over 3000 textual differences between that and the bible you claim to be the source of truth...which was written much later to please the Emperors.
Early christianity was much different to that practised today...there was the Adoptionist creeds, the Gnostic creeds and finally the one you read today, the Roman version, which brutally suppressed the others and destroyed both texts and buildings to establish their power and supremacy which led to the bible you read today...
The Trinity "3 in one" was cobbled together in the 3rd Century CE to explain the palpable contradictions inherent in later texts of Mark...it was never mainstream until the Romans used it to justify the Emperor as head of the church.
All this is documented in multiple places and by multiple sources.
Thats is the difference, you have made bald assertions with no facts or scholarship, that's why no one takes you seriously.
@"Thats is the difference, you have made bald assertions with no facts or scholarship, that's why no one takes you seriously."
This was what I came here for. Thank you. I didn't know how prepared y'all have been on these forums. About a year ago I just started commenting on some "angry" athiest comments on YouTube. Within 4 or 5 replies. I would respond in a way that would inspire thought. Then they would stop responding angrily. Or just stop responding.
My great aunt just passed away several months ago, at the age of 95. She had been a "default athiest" her whole life. In the last 3 months of her life. She reached out to my mom and I because she had some questions about God. So I had to get more perspective on the psychology of the atheistic . mind. So I dove deeper. I didn't know it would all end up here? Because I lived a life of experience. We were able to show her with our lives and experiences with kindness in our hearts and genuine love for her. We didn't have to argue facts or debate. We got through to her heart of stone with our lights we shine. That was enough for her.
People fall into 5 types of personality archetypes. Originated in ancient Chinese Taoism. Psychologists use this in their practice's. Many books like the people code have been made from it. The Harrison debrief is a class and test that managers of companies undertake in their training, that is a deeper modern day study of how people interact with the different types of personality archetypes. They classify them as elements. Earth, fire, water, air, and metal. Each person is either very strong in their element, or they are progressing through changing into another element. Einstein was a very strong water. Never changing elements. He stayed that way for his whole life. Simon cowel is a metal. Never changing his element. Jim Carrey has been a fire and will stay that way. Some people go through unforseen complications in life that will force them out of their element. Causing them to cycle into a different personality profile. Others who seek balance will do this intentionally. Hence the yin yang that Tao created.
Before I ever came to this knowledge of Tao. I had cycled through all the elemental profiles many times naturally in my life as a result of seeking experience and adaptability. Never being super strong in 1 avenue. But well versed in many. (Hence the adaptability and empathy). I have hundreds of "real life people" who take me serious. But, as your comments have helped me. If I want to be taken seriously by the "metal" athiest who has put in the work and knows The Facts. I must go into metal mode again. It's been a while since I've been there. It is the least fun *rusty chuckles* *need oil can* hahahaha I didn't know this would come out like this. Full circle in 7 years. Now this tin man has found his heart. I'm back to work in metal. Unbelievable.
It was my experience (not head knowledge) that led me to God, that showed me Christ is the way. I didn't just pick it out. It's possible that is why some call it blind Faith. All we need is an undeniable experience. I've had too many to count.
Thank you all again. Don't forget, the implications if God exists. It's something that can be felt. That's your proof. Only death will give us "The Fact". Until then, I hope you find everything that gives you the best life imaginable.
Great hope
Here is just a feel good song... For fun ; ) enjoy
Watch "TobyMac - Feel It (Lyrics)" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/KQTqxn6F17E
@ Great hope
"Don't forget, the implications if God exists. It's something that can be felt."
And there is where we differ. I rely on truth. For one of the biggest questions and part of my life, I rely on more than just a "feeling". Feelings carry zero weight in a court of law or a bank loan.
Great hope, I do not doubt your integrity or sincerity. But I know that feelings and emotions are not a pathway to the truth. One can choose many different options based just on "faith" or "feelings". I may as well pray to Odin, he gives me the best feelings regarding mythical deities.
Megan Fox gives me good feelings, and bad Mexican food gives me bad feelings.
But Mexican food is worth it ; )
Why does this remind me of the casting of magic spells?
Okay, listen up folks. The only unproven absolute method of unsuccessfully achieving turbulent lucidity within the outer sub-conscious is perplexingly more simple than we currently refrain from previously considering. It is merely a vital matter of recognizing the obviously subtle introverted nature of our outer selves. One must then orally consume the inert catalysts of stunted spiritual growth by means of topical application so that the physical body of the mind can finally roam free within the confines of endlessly restricted boundaries. Only then can we become blindly aware of our hypothetical thoughts about delusional reality.
(Edited for spelling)
@Tin-man
Whoa. *Eyes wide shut in humble amazement*
Nice post
@ Tin-Man
Why did you post this?
@Great Hope Re: "Why did you post this?"
GH, it was just something that came into my heart that I felt compelled to share with others. If you have to ask me what it means, then you are obviously not ready to know the true meaning. You will have to find the answer by searching within yourself, because I'm afraid I am not able to properly explain it in terms anybody unenlightened would understand. It is just something I "feel" to be right. All I can do is share those type thoughts as they come to me. It is entirely up to the individual to make personal conclusions and draw whatever useful meanings he/she can from them.
Edit to add:
Oh, in case anybody was wondering, GH was referring to my earlier post of:
Okay, listen up folks. The only unproven absolute method of unsuccessfully achieving turbulent lucidity within the outer sub-conscious is perplexingly more simple than we currently refrain from previously considering. It is merely a vital matter of recognizing the obviously subtle introverted nature of our outer selves. One must then orally consume the inert catalysts of stunted spiritual growth by means of topical application so that the physical body of the mind can finally roam free within the confines of endlessly restricted boundaries. Only then can we become blindly aware of our hypothetical thoughts about delusional reality.
@ Tin-Man
I might have a fair understanding. Because of my adversities and trauma. It's possible that some of my many experiences with the supernatural were a delusional reality to help me cope with life. As in some cases a person exposed to high intensity pain for a duration of time will splice their psyche into an alternate personality. Maybe you were sharing it because it's the very reason I Hold On To Life and didn't want others to burst my bubble too much *nail biting chuckles* My grandpa didn't believe in God or afterlife, yet as I was watching him die. He was trying to get some kind of chains, that I couldn't see, off him. Seconds before crossing over. He was a flight navigator in a b28 bomber in WW2, killing people. So I can't explain any of that. In my case it was only a couple of times that I experienced the supernatural. Never once splicing psyche, I've always been the same me. But, it's in the years of confirmation that kept what I had experienced into my daily life. So maybe it's safe to say that it's a delusional reality that works? Nevertheless, I know what I longed for and went to extremes to obtain it. Later the information I was led to, matched up with it. Call it coincidence or whatever. With the life I have been given and the death with a choice made. I'm not going to stop testing everything about the spirit, albeit a delusion or not. Because I'm strong willed and hunger for the experience of God, fearlessly testing. I believe I've done what it takes, for as long as it takes. Experienced results, and can die with the knowledge that I gave it my all, doing everything that my heart beats for. Never looking at what man has done to things. But giving my all to the Giver of Life. Whatever that is? I've lived my life doing exactly what I want, knowing full well what it is that I'm doing. Not letting too much of my head get in the way of what I already know in my heart. Thank you for your kindness Tin-Man. I am secure in who I am and what has been revealed to me, as it is in the forefront of my being for as long as it takes. Hundreds of people rely on it. So I will be here for a long time, for the workers are few *tired exasperated Chuckles*
"Death is the road to awe" it will be observable but not repeatable.
I will start my research with the "spirit"
We can not measure or examine the spirit\soul. It's not observable or repeatable. But yet there is so much belief in this. So many have experienced such undescribable things. People really get possessed. Others get abducted. Nikola Tesla was trained by a spiritual guru. Tapping into all sorts of stuff a "metal mind" would never be able to.
There is far too much we still don't know about life and death, for us to rely strictly on what can be observable and repeatable. Hence " It's a Wonderful Life" full of wonder. We can not just place all of our eggs in 1 small basket of understanding. To say that something is impossible because we can't observe or repeat it would be foolish. Also the powers-that-be in this life have no trouble lying to us. Following some agenda of fear and separation. Something to ponder is where did these people get all this power from? I wonder what percentage of the information out there is a hundred percent fact, and out of that percentage? How much of that information covers the whole picture of everything? Maybe 20%? Leaving 80% unexplored and unverified? (Rough estimate) Which is why I'm going to not have much fun in this metal archetype. This is going to be an endless search for a needle in a billion haystacks. FML, maybe the ones who just believe because they have had experienced it in their soul have it all figured out? With the single most important fact, we don't need every and all answers to feel. I envy such simplicity. I see people who have this. Not ever having to test it. Never having to do work for it. It's like their whole life is a fluffy cloud of sunshine and raibows, helping people without reward is like second nature. Everything in their lives just works out, and if it doesn't? They are still fine with it. Just happy all the time for no reason at all, SMH. I'm sure y'all have seen one of these people before. Makes me sick! The 12 inches from their head to their heart. Is just a hop, skip, and a jump. Where mine is 100000000 year journey. Seriously FML.
I digressed, since the logical mind is separate from the intuitive feelings of the gut. Spirit\Soul is not something that can be ruled out. I will start my research here. Wish me luck. As if either of those are a real thing? Wish and luck *tired chuckles*
@ Great Hope
So the nub of your position, despite all evidence to the contrary, is that your "faith" trumps all. Despite paper trails to all the references you need to establish that your beliefs are nonsensical.
"I digressed, since the logical mind is separate from the intuitive feelings of the gut. Spirit\Soul is not something that can be ruled out."
Utter bunkum, that my friend is woo ......it is the grown up version of going to sleep sucking your thumb. Truly delusional.
I'm done. Engagement with the fanciful is beyond my pay grade.
@old man shouts "Engagement with the fanciful is beyond my pay grade."
Discovering The 5 Personality Types –
Metal personality type -
They are hasty in temperament, able to adjust to different environments, often choose official duties and tend to be surrounded by an aura of sadness, often seeming close to tears. Metal people like definition, structure and discipline; they seek to live according to reason and principle.
The emotion associated with the metal element is Grief or sadness. When sadness pervades, a person may isolate and defend him/herself from the pleasure of attachment and the pain of loss. Metal type people arrange their lives for the purpose of avoiding risks and the vagaries of passion. They can become possessive, acquisitive, and domineering in an effort to control their environment.
Their striving for self-protection may keep them too detached and inaccessible, fearful of true intimacy. They tend to be pleasant but cool. Their lives are designed to keep their feelings in.
Metal types need to compensate for their rationality, self-control and meticulousness with passion, spontaneity and social involvement.
Food for well balanced thought
I will look into the credibility of the Bible and Christ over the next year. I'll probably come back here with my findings.
@ Great Hope
"Discovering The 5 Personality Types – "
And so far off the track it, like all your posts so far, is ridiculous.
You have produced pages of woo, multiple unevidenced assertions and not a skerrick, jot or tittle of anything approaching evidence or even justification for your assertions of magical unicorn shite.
Your claims about the bible and your jesus god are palpably untrue and totally unevidenced and now you bring an astrology style unevidenced assertion of a personality type to the table?
Please, sit down and re read everything you have written...its all adds up to wait for it...nonsense. The kind of stuff you find in a New Age Handbook for the very Gullible.
If you are having a joke, fine, but if you are serious then you are in grave trouble and on the hunt for the endorphins that flood your brain, just like the drugs you now say you eschew.
Now, take your woo, pack it neatly in your Paddington Bear rucksack, insert your well sucked thumb in your mouth and do fuck off.
When you learn the difference between evidence and assertion please return.
@When you learn the difference between evidence and assertion please return.
http://www.harrisonassessments.com/index.html
"Used Worldwide by the Most Successful Companies"
Tao has many versions. Just like most things. But the core principals are verified fact. So much so, that people base their companies and employment on it. It is a stapel in modern psychology. Whilst I look into the credibility of the Bible. It's possible looking into the personality profiles of human behavior might be of benefit to you. You will be amazed at how much you can learn about yourself and why you are the way that you are. The counterbalances. And how to grow, if you want to? There is nothing wrong with looking into yourself.( without the insertion that you already have yourself figured out completely with verifiable facts and observable and repeatable behavior of psychology.)
@ Great Hope
Again, assertions and only a youtube video to back it up. Really.
For your information I have spent many years examining Early Christianity, The Bible and other "sacred" texts etc, also had much discourse with Islamic Scholars and for 30 odd years was following the way of zen. I also found time to have a career as a musician, actor and latterly writer and also study psychology (Behavioral and Industrial) as well as other disciplines that took my fancy.
That you lecture me about "self knowledge" without one ounce or smatter of cognisance about me or my background demonstrates to the world at large that you are nothing but a tyro, with a large flavoring of insufferable smugness.
Stick your thumb back in the orifice of your choosing and fuck off until you have something sensible to offer the community here.
@Old man shouts ...
Great to know a little more about you. I was speaking in a general sense, for we all can learn more about balance, no matter where we are in life. Hence the disclaimer at the end. It's not a link to YouTube. My company uses Harrison debrief for employment. My thumb is going into a jar of peanut butter right now just for you (my favorite snack)
@ Great Hope
Nope its not a YouTube link, but no, I haven't accessed it because of all the previous links you have supplied that have little or nothing to do with the reality of our discussion.
Most psyche tests in the commercial world,( and I speak with some authority having had to administer the fucking things) are useless for profiling for success or any other quantifiable. They categorise personnel for their responses on the day. A meaningful psyche profile takes months of work and several qualified personnel. Not a series of questions and a run through a software program. That's not self knowledge; it's a scam perpetrated by the labor hire companies and "Management Consultants" with a bagful of Snake Oil and fancy suits.
I note you say you are now "Whilst I look into the credibility of the Bible" here's a quote for you " Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."Isaac Asimov. Here is a quote from me " The bible has no credibility as an historical or moral document. None" If you want to discuss that come armed with knowledge not secondhand video bites.
This is where you demonstrate your confusion, you bring your personal revelation to a group and hand out saccharine lollipops of your own perceptions, to people you don't know, have no conception of their thought process, experience and intelligence. That's not demonstrating humility, self knowledge or erudition. Its displaying crassness, arrogance and a certain social ineptness bordering on the diagnosable.
I can assure you there are intellects in this forum that would rend your suppositions to shreds in no time if you engaged them. They are probably laughing their collective socks off at my efforts to get you to a point where you research enough to approach the forum in the correct spirit of enquiry.
Fine to have an opinion, fine to have a belief but woe betide any tyro who comes here with the attitude of "I have the truth, I've gazed at my navel, and I will teach you guys" and "here's a youtube/commercial/church video to prove my point"
Claro? Capisce?
Good. Begin.
@Old man shouts ...
I've made it clear I've come here to learn. I've never debated and I don't know how to. That I've not been educated, but have lived a life of experience. There is still a lot to learn. No matter how much we know we don't know everything. My only question is, how can a person be so sure there is no afterlife with correct placement? When human culture through out all time is somehow obsessed with it being a reality? It's an assertion to believe "by faith" that this is all there is. Do you have any proof of this? Or educated sources of information? This is the only question I have? Because I genuinely do not know. How can someone bet everything, and be so sure, that there is no afterlife?
@Great Hope
Now you are using a weak version of Pascals Wager....google it. Its a nonsense argument. Get back to me when you have read and understood it. Then we can look at how it is discredited.
I mentioned Pascal's wager in one of my other posts. I'm just asking where this hope for nothingness or random placement assertion is coming from?
@ Great Hope
I answered this post: " My only question is, how can a person be so sure there is no afterlife with correct placement? When human culture through out all time is somehow obsessed with it being a reality? It's an assertion to believe "by faith" that this is all there is. Do you have any proof of this? Or educated sources of information? This is the only question I have? Because I genuinely do not know. How can someone bet everything, and be so sure, that there is no afterlife?
I said in my reply it is a weak version of Pascals wager: you replied: I mentioned Pascal's wager in one of my other posts" So what? I asked you to demonstrate understanding in this discussion so we could move on. Instead you come up with ". . I'm just asking where this hope for nothingness or random placement assertion is coming from?"
What "hope for nothingness or random placement assertion?"(whatever the fuck that is) Neither have been mentioned or asserted by me in any conversation with you.
So, get a grip and lets see what the hell you are waffling about?
Let's see, if you can, in direct english and without resorting to paragraphs of woo ask a coherent and direct question, then when answered, and NOT with a question provide a readable response.
Now, I ask again; can you demonstrate your understanding of Pascals wager? With brevity? Then we can move on to translating your last question/statement/string of random words, into some sort of understandable english.
I'm at work right now. So brevity is yours.
Pascal's wager- betting with your life in hope of no God
@Great Hope
Actually it is the opposite......ok, I will accept the answer, opaque as it is. . Now please translate your "nothingness" sentence so that it is a question, please use clear english and explain why you think it is my position?
Have a good day at work. It is evening here , so we shall see how our time difference works out.
I know athiesm is a lack of belief, therefore it nullfies it anyway. I don't know what your position is? If there is no Creator God Master Placer? Then when we die, is it nothingness or random placement of some kind?
Of course I can only answer for myself: worm food, that is what happens to you when you die.
For me, when you die, you are no longer self-aware, so there is no "random placement" or nothingness as you call it.
I have no belief about an afterlife as no one has returned to tell us. Not one person.
I do know about the buddhist experiences, but without rigorous testing and duplication, that, like all other theories and fantasies goes into the "not proven" basket in my book.
Why do you need a god?
@Great hope
"Pascal's wager- betting with your life in hope of no God"
But what if you are wrong? There are many religions with many different deities.
What if you are not worshiping the "correct" god?
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