Want your guys advice.

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LogicFTW's picture
Want your guys advice.

Apologies for the length of this post, but I feel for anyone that wants to offer solid advice to my question at the bottom, that some details that lead to the question are needed.

Some of this stuff may be a bit dark and/or hard to read for some individuals. If you deal with depression or avoid dark/negative conversations, I encourage you to skip reading this post. It is not my goal to depress anyone here, but I would like your guys advice/answers to my question I ask further down.

 

 

By the hard data, human caused climate change is real, it is happening right now, and scientist say we need to reduce emissions by around ~50% by 2030 and reach carbon neutral status by 2050 to avoid the worst effects of climate change. (2 degrees celsius rise or less.)

If anyone wants it, I can post a reply with links to the "data." But in the interest in this post not turning into a book, I skip it for now.

For the last 30 years or so scientist been telling us with increasing dire warnings that we need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions substantially as soon as possible. Instead greenhouse gas emissions has grown by nearly 50%, over the last 30 years.

Stopping this growth and turning it around to: 50% reduction in emissions in 10 years by all accounts looks to be extremely unlikely based on current trends and available data points.

The available data says the far and away most likely scenario is that greenhouse gas emissions will continue to increase at roughly the same pace it has been for the last 30 years for at least the next decade or so, "business as usual." Increasingly, we are getting locked into a 3 degree or greater celsius rise by 2100, this is in the "catastrophic" range.

Pull out your worst case scenario climate change predictions kiddos. Our climate is going to be very different by the year 2100 barring a miracle "savior" technology like working deuterium based fusion.

Now some quick background info for me.
As a skeptical person, an atheist, freed from indoctrination of large organized religion, I have concluded that my meaning/purpose of life is to: "enjoy life."

Based on the data points available to me, I concluded that human caused climate change is real, and its short/long term effects are also real and are far likely to occur within the ranges predicted, versus being the data based conclusions being incorrect, (a gigantic conspiracy of world wide proportions that has gone on for many decades.)

I stressed over it, I tried to follow instructions of folks more educated and smarter then I am on the subject, to reducing my carbon footprint best I can, things like: installing solar on my roof, minimizing air travel, and reducing private car use and reducing overall consumption of carbon expensive products. Donating to charities involved in carbon reduction work, supporting politicians that pledged to do something about it, taking part in peaceful marches/demonstrations etc.

My critical, rational, skeptical mind alerts me that: despite my efforts, my carbon footprint is still on the "high end."

I, who more than once, was labeled by others as a "climate alarmist." Am part of the problem, not the solution.

Even worse, on a purely individual level, I am well aware my efforts do not matter, except to perhaps assuage my own guilt. I could win the lottery tomorrow, buy a gas guzzling hummer, rent a private jet to fly all over the world, and it would have essentially the same effect globally if I alternatively: gave away all my money to renewable "green" energy technologies, lived in a cave and grew my own crops without machinery or fertilizer/pesticides. The difference between the two extremes being completely inconsequential difference in a world with nearly 8 billion (and continually rising with no discernable major slow down.) Worse still, the emission averages per human is also rising instead of falling for the last century or so.

Finally at my question for you, (the very patient!) reader that made it this far.
Remembering my goal/meaning of life is to: "enjoy life."

My question that I would like advice on is this:

        Should I stop caring? And just enjoy my life instead?

Is my conclusion that catastrophic climate change will happen and there's absolutely nothing I personally, (outside of force,) that I can do about it, reasonable?

Instead should I continue to enjoy life, with perhaps some strategic planning on minimizing the effects of climate change on myself and those I most care most about? And stop worrying about things I have no control over?

I appreciate any and all answers/advice even if you just skipped to the end and read my question(s).

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and maybe making a reply.

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watchman's picture
@LogicFTW ……

@LogicFTW ……

" Should I stop caring?" and just enjoy my life instead ?…"

No … Do not stop caring …
Do stop worrying so much.

and of course you must enjoy your life ….. its the only one you get …..

Learn to recognise what you can alter and what you cannot ….

change what you can ….. regret /protest what you can not.

LogicFTW's picture
@watchman

@watchman

How do you know how to balance caring vs worrying?

And let me be clear, I will always care about the well being of the people important to me. But do I stop caring about the future unborn, those that get born into a world that can no longer support 8+ billion people with their ever increasing resource burden?

And I have a good idea how it will go. As the process is already underway. The poorest and most vulnerable suffer first, (already are.) Then as climate changes and all the issues that go with worsen things, then like a metastasized cancer, spread to more and more areas, systems collapsing as they go. The richest of us, like many of us here, (access to internet, the free time, and the ability to read write and comprehend at a high level.) Means its highly likely we will be among the last to be greatly effected.

I am working on better recognizing what I can change/do and what I cannot. That is my slowly evolving realization that there is little I can do about the present course of climate change.

Thanks for your insights.

watchman's picture
@LogicFTW …..

@LogicFTW …..

"How do you know how to balance caring vs worrying?" ……

That is for each of us individually to work out for ourselves ……. we are the ones who have to live with the balance after all.

Much as I would like to ….. I am unable to stop the Poles from melting ….. I cannot stop the twats in the Amazon from burning the rainforests ….. You and I together cannot prevent the extraction of Oil or the mining of coal or prevent India and China from burning fossil fuels .

Frustrating though it is ,these are battles that we cannot win …...at present …… there will come a day when we may be able to contribute to a global movement that can stop these things …….

But for now all we can do is act in a small way...….march in demonstrations …. sign petitions …… write to politicians ….. boycott rogue products ,business's ,politicians. ...while conducting our own lives in as ethical a manner as possible.

When the sea levels rise and governments are confronted by dispossessed citizens needing to be moved ,re-housed compensated I suspect that the politicians will start to actually do something...

Imagine the residents of Florida's shore side cities ….. or the masses of people from Bengals coastal districts ….. or the denizens of the Norfolk and Lincolnshire coasts in the UK …. not to mention the islanders from the Indian Ocean and the Pacific ….the Venetians...…

……. there is a line from a movie ,(V for Vendetta) that I like very much …. it runs something like...… "the People should not fear Governments , ……. Governments should fear the People."

sorry ..... rambling ….. its late here… I've had a long day and too much beer....

Rohan M.'s picture
Never stop caring. As long as

Never stop caring. As long as there are still people who care about climate change and our planet, there is still hope. It may be too late to completely prevent climate change, but we should still be thinking of potential methods of mitigation and remediation (e.g. carbon sequestration, using wind/solar/nuclear power instead of coal/fuel burning, etc.)

LogicFTW's picture
@Rohan M.

@Rohan M.

I do not really want to stop caring about climate change, and having zero care would seem foolish to me, I plan to live, at least another 40-50 "comfortable" years.

Wind/solar while helpful, is not a solution. Wind and solar adoption must be combined with a massive reduction of overall energy use. Something our current economies are not set up for. And this is before dealing with the problems of night time, or when it is not windy.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Logic

@ Logic

" And this is before dealing with the problems of night time, or when it is not windy."

Seriously? You are aware of the mega storage battery that Tesla built in less than 100 days in South Australia? It has an impeccable record of preventing outages where fossil fuel stations failed.

They are building similar larger scale batteries in many parts of the world. Capable of helping power entire cities and of course, storing sustainable fuel based energy.

Of course the stuff of dreams is an International energy grid based 100% on renewables. And yes , according to the literature I have accessed ( freely available online) it is well within sight as an achievable goal save for the politics.

Coal is dead, it just will not lie down yet. I hope it does before the death knell for much of our ecosystems.

We are in the midst of a Third Industrial revolution, called the Energy Revolution as our descendants will be studying in the future. If they have one.

Yes as in all radical changes there will be dislocations, redistribution of influence (hopefully for the better) and new ways of living....and it doesn't matter where the sun shines or the wind blows as that energy will be collected and distributed.

Australia should be the solar farm of South East Asia......and once the dinosaurs are forced from office I am sure it will be.

LogicFTW's picture
@Old man shouts at clouds

@Old man shouts at clouds
I will have to read up on the mega storage battery Tesla built in south Australia. I need encouraging stories like this. I stare at the graphs, global human caused greenhouse gas emissions, (of which most of it is fossil fuel based,) then I see the graphs of solar/wind production growth rates, and despair. If we draw the lines out based on known data points, "green" energy sources dont catch up to growth (let alone reduce) our normal emissions until well after 3+ degrees celsius is locked in.

Also interested how they handle power distribution of power generated in australia getting transported to asia. Maybe those batteries? Replace all the giant oil tankers with battery "tankers?"

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Logic

@ Logic

It is not just the many grid battery storage projects that are popping up all over Australia even in Queensland, the bastion of the coal lovers.

All their Catholic schools have or are in the process of converting to Solar/ Battery storage. In fact, solar uptake is so high in my Sate that the power supply corporation are worried about sustaining the grid intra state infrastructure with so many businesses and private homes as well as Government installations becoming self sufficient in power needs.

In fact the grid supply fixed charge is now greater than the usage I take from the grid every month. If I had battery storage as well as my Solar Panels my energy bill would be in the minus range.
But we have a progressive government that is actively shutting down coal and replacing it with renewables as well as retraining and offering subsidy to new, low pollutant industry to move in to the old "coal towns"
The process of change is inexorable.
The RATE of change to a clean environment can be influenced through government intervention. That is where our problem is. Where politicians are in thrall to the billionaire coal monsters and the Happy Clapping Apocalypse aficionados we are stuck in the 1950s.
Stopping fossil fuel subsidies and free water allocations to Coal Mines and their owners and subsidising large scale solar, wind and Tide projects couples with battery storage would (and has been proven to) replace coal in Australia withing a decade. What is lacking is the political will.

Maybe things will change after this bushfire season.....let us hope. I do know that my State is not part of the National Grid, our energy (Electricity) company is State owned and I really can't name one of my friends in the State that thinks "coal is good".

Having said all that I am a steam enthusiast and can be transported into a delight of nostalgia by the smell of oiled brass and steel and the whiff of coal smoke. I do realise it is antediluvian technology, but by god, it was magnificent.

Algebe's picture
@LogicFTW: Wind and solar

@LogicFTW: Wind and solar adoption must be combined with a massive reduction of overall energy use.

Not necessarily. Advances in power storage technology will solve the unreliability problem for solar and wind. There are also renewable energy resources that we have hardly even started to use, such as tidal power, and thermal gradient power. And then there's the potential for new technologies, such as fusion. Energy could also be harnessed in space and beamed back as microwaves.

A massive reduction in energy consumption would result in lower living standards, shorter lifespans, widespread poverty and hunger. The climate change problem would still remain for the foreseeable future, but our capacity to fix it and deal with its effects would be gone. You're right to care about climate change, but I don't think we can solve the problem by hobbling ourselves.

Human beings are problem-solving animals. We wither and stagnate without problems to solve, and we grow and move forward by finding solutions. We only fail when we submit to despair or resort to prayer.

I'm proud of what we've achieved, and I'm excited about the future.

LogicFTW's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe
Another tech for me to google, that I know little about, thermal gradient power.

I do not think humanity will be wiped out, we are resilient buggers and we are innovative. I just do not see the mass of humanity reversing course on climate change fast enough, and the folks alive at 2100 and beyond will be feeling the effects rather harshly in some parts of the world.

I am optimistic about my own future and that of most of my family and friends. Not so optimistic about the most vulnerable of us around the world. And I have zero optimism towards just about all the global leaders to do the right thing and get things done.

David Killens's picture
LogicFTW, I too have to deal

LogicFTW, I too have to deal with depression, anxiety, even PTSD.

This is my response to your question.

Of course I care, I will never stop worrying about this planet, all the life on it, and future generations. That is a lot to absorb, in fact it can be overwhelming.

I once attended a political debate for my city. In it one questioner asked a candidate what their position was on terrorism, the climate, gay rights, name a global issue, they brought it up. The candidate responded that they were running for an office in this city, and their sole focus was not global, but local, only what they could do for the city.

I am just one little guy, I know how far my voice reaches. But I don't hold back on such issues as climate change to anyone willing to listen. I email politicians, I make sure that those in power know that at least this one little voter is watching and will vote on those issues.

I do my little part, but once I send that email, I forget climate change and go back to watching midget porn and have fun.

LogicFTW's picture
@David Killens

@David Killens

I realizing I too will never stop caring about the planet, the life on our planet, and the future of the planet. It is my home and home to everyone I care about.

On a purely local level things are easy, almost too easy. At least where I live. Most all of us where I live understand the importance of clean water and air, biodiversity, and well being of all life we share this planet with and completely rely upon.

My city/county/state is doing very well economically, many high tech jobs near the cities in Colorado, other then the usual traffic and "green lawn" pollution, how is it done? We basically outsource our pollution for just about anything we can. Our trash goes out of county, our power, (other then a small percentage of solar, is also outsourced, to some other county. Our carbon and pollution footprints would be even easier to ignore if we did not have train tracks and you can see the coal trains go by on schedule a couple of times a day. AKA we deal with our pollution the "rich people" way. Outsourcing the ugly side of our habits so it is out of sight and mind.

I will continue to contact my representatives on all levels, city, county, state, federal. I will continue to vote "green." I will continue to have solar on my roof. But perhaps beyond that I wash my hands of it. If I see a real global movement of real progress I will gladly hop in and be an early adopter of first reducing my carbon/pollution footprint in half by 2030, and be carbon neutral (if that is possible) by 2050. But I think beyond keep in place the systems I already have and watching for real progress. It is probably all I can really do. Beyond that I let it fade into the background. I still continue to make plans to live in an area where the damage of climate change is minimized and insulate my self and those I care most about from the worst effects of it via planning.

Then I go back to enjoying life for the other 99% of my time.

LogicFTW's picture
Thanks for the responses so

Thanks for the responses so far guys. I value your guys opinions far more than most folks. I should have more time tomorrow to go through and respond to what you guys wrote.

Algebe's picture
@LogicFTW:

@LogicFTW:

The greenies and that girl from Sweden see climate change in very simple terms. We need to go back to subsistence farming, taking our turnips to market on horse carts. Of course, that transition would result in several billion deaths, but they're prepared to make that sacrifice. Any volunteers?

The fact is we still know bugger all about the climate. Just look at the accuracy of the various climate models. In addition to the composition of the atmosphere and oceans, you've also got to factor in cosmic rays, sunspot cycles, the Milankovitch cycles, volcanic activity, and various other processes. On top of that we've now got to think about the anthropogenic factors, especially CO2 and CFCs. We know that putting more CO2 into the atmosphere means a stronger greenhouse effect, but what happens when you put in CO2 over a few hundred years and then take it out again even faster? I keep thinking, you stab a man through the heart, and then you pull the dagger out and he's ok, right?

To make a difference, we need solutions that allow people to maintain and improve their living standards, especially in developing countries. We can't say, "All you people in India and China and Africa, we've enjoyed color TVs and cars and air travel for 50 years, but you can't have them because there's too much CO2 now."

One of those solutions is solar power. I've got a bunch of panels on my roof which meet all my daytime needs, with some left over to sell to the power company. At night I buy it back at twice the price. When I get an electric car, I'll be able to fill it up with sunshine from my roof. Another solution is nuclear power. We've all been scared by Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. They were all old technology. There are much safer and cleaner nuclear systems now. I'd rather live next to a nuke than a coal-fired power plant.

Other options include wind, tidal power, hydrogen, microwave power beamed down from orbital mirrors, and of course fusion.

As you can see, I'm a bit ambivalent about the environment and our ability to influence it either way. But on the whole I'm optimistic. We are homo sapiens. We've survived ice ages and fought our way to the top of the food chain. We'll find solutions. We just need to find ways that create jobs and deliver returns on investment. It's all about incentives.

Guilt never solves problems. Just look at religions.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Algebe

@ Algebe

Thing is it is pretty much evidenced that man IS affecting the RATE of climate change and not in a good way. That we need to stop new coal extraction, other fossil fuels that exacerbate the RATE of change is not even up for discussion. The verdict is in.

That various politicians are so venal and corrupt they refuse to bite the bullet and create millions of new opportunities by stopping Fossil fuel subsidies and apply them to alternative energy and space exploration ( particularly of the asteroid belt) is bordering on criminal behaviour when our planets biodiversity is at stake.

Also in reply to your last paragraph, you seem to want to live in an economy, I dunno, I would prefer to live in a society.

Algebe's picture
Old man shouts: you seem to

Old man shouts: you seem to want to live in an economy, I dunno, I would prefer to live in a society.

There's a difference? We're all in the business of selling what we have to get what we want.

I agree with you about politicians flogging the dead horse of fossil fuel extraction. Australia is going to get a very nasty jolt to its dig-it-up-and-ship-it-out economy when China abruptly goes green. They've already dramatically toughened up their vehicle emission standards.

Big old industries buy politicians, who serve their masters by diverting public money to prop up zombie sectors. With its vast hot interior and long coastline, Australia should be leading the world in mega-solar, wind, and tidal power generation. Instead the government shortsightedly focuses on the extraction industries. They're basically luddites.

I also agree that humanity is affecting the rate of climate change. What we can do about it, and whether we can do anything at all are completely different questions. The amount of money and effort devoted to climate change is ludicrously small. That's why I'm saying we know virtually nothing. The same phenomenon could simultaneously cause an ice age in Europe while burning Australia to a crisp. It's vital that our response to climate change is based on good solid science, not pseudo-religious hysteria.

Unfortunately it often takes a crisis to drive change and inventiveness. Politicians and voters will always opt for business as usual until the nukes are launched, the sea boils, or the sky catches fire.

Maybe it's just hubris to imagine that we can steer the climate of this planet in any meaningful and intentional way. But whatever happens, the planet will be ok and life will go on, with us or without us.

LogicFTW's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

Of course, that transition would result in several billion deaths, but they're prepared to make that sacrifice. Any volunteers?

Absolutely, while subsistence farming may have worked 200 years ago when there was less then a billion people on this planet and everyone had the knowledge of how to survive like that back then. Now it is impossible, with nearly 8 billion (and still rapidly growing) population of which more then half simply would not survive subsistence farming even there was enough land/resources for that would be nothing short of a catastrophic disaster that as you say would result in billions starving to death or dying to the elements.

We can't say, "All you people in India and China and Africa, we've enjoyed color TVs and cars and air travel for 50 years, but you can't have them because there's too much CO2 now."

We cannot say it and be fair, that is for sure. But if we wanted an actual impactful effective solution, denying the half of the population that does not have access to cars, AC, airplanes, modern medicine the ability to have them would at the very least stop much of the growth in greenhouse gases/pollution.

One of those solutions is solar power.

Solar as a solution only works with an accompanying massive reduction in consumption. And is only an option for the rich for the most part. Solar on people's roofs that sell into a grid are an lower footprint option for people that have that much roof space and are already tied to a robust grid, (about 10-20% of the world population.) But as soon as you have to do battery back up, or put in powerline infrastructure to deliver the power, the cost balloon to 2x 3x. And this is for the population that does not have financial capability to take on such costs. I have solar on my roof. I am a fan of solar, but I see no indication that solar is any sort of position to help solve human caused climate change.

Another solution is nuclear power.

Nuclear has many problems, most notable amongst them, public acceptance of nuclear. Even if we could cut through the red tape, and deal with the NIMBY issues, (Not In My Back Yard) the ability to build enough nuclear power plants fast enough to keep up with electricity generation needs (that will grow exponentially if we all switch to electric cars) while also allowing us to shut down many coal/gas plants would require us to build 1000's if not 10's of thousands of nuclear power plants within the next 10 years all over the world.

They were all old technology. There are much safer and cleaner nuclear systems now. I'd rather live next to a nuke than a coal-fired power plant.

Absolutely agree.

Other options include wind, tidal power, hydrogen, microwave power beamed down from orbital mirrors, and of course fusion.

Wind can help, tidal could maybe work with more advancements, fusion is a real solution but the world been making very slow progress on that. Have not heard much about microwave power beamed from orbital mirrors I will have to read up on that.

We'll find solutions.

I am hopeful we will, I am even hopeful we do it before things get real bad. While hope is a useful motivating tool, I still being a realist believe a 3c temp rise is all but inevitable at this point.

Guilt never solves problems. Just look at religions.

Yeah I think I am realizing despite all my feelings of human caused climate change, guilt is probably the least useful for me.

NewSkeptic's picture
I'm an odd combination of

I'm an odd combination of Skeptic and Optimist. I really think that science will be able at some point to control the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, perhaps by figuring out fusion, perhaps an extraction method, perhaps something no one has yet considered. I think the real culprit is overpopulation and the ways to control that are not pleasant.

That's not to say I am not concerned, but I'm still going to try to see more of the world in my later years even though I acknowledge that travelling is a major concern.

Truth is, I'll be long gone before we know if this will be a catastrophe or if people will somehow manage it. I admit to being somewhat self-centered in that regard.

CyberLN's picture
Logic, should you end your

Logic, should you end your life because the data show global warming is ineluctable? Should you cut off your toe because statistics indicate you will stub it in the future?

Do you KNOW that humans will be unable to concoct a means of dealing with or reversing what looks, right now, as inevitable?

I hope you don’t decide to end your life. I rather like that you are alive.

As a side note, you wrote, “Finally at my question for you, (the very patient!) reader that made it this far. Remembering my goal/meaning of life is to: "enjoy life." “

Enjoy life? Well, there sure are a lot of things in life that are not enjoyable....colonoscopies, hang nails, divorce, mosquito bites, and several thousand other things. There are also thousands of things that are, indeed, enjoyable. No, the goal/meaning of life is not to enjoy it, rather, it is to fully live it.

LogicFTW's picture
Most certainly not interested

Most certainly not interested in suicide or self harm. I love myself and my life way too much for that.

You are right, I do not know. Seems everything that is known so far though, it looks pretty grim, long term future. But yes, new tech is the great "hope" for me. And the tech seemingly will have to be more along the lines of ways to safely reduce greenhouse gases, instead of tech to prevent more emissions. Like a 100+ car coal train moving at full speed, current emissions are not going to slow or stop anytime soon.

I consider fully living life to be a very important and integral part of "enjoying life" A critical method to get to: enjoying life.

Grinseed's picture
Logic, sorry for the length

Logic, sorry for the length of this, but live your life and enjoy it as best you can. You only get one shot. Worrying about things way out of your control is not conducive to a good or healthy life. No-one is solely responsible for global problems.

Humankind's coal-burning contribution to global warming was verified statistically back in 1896 in a paper by Svante Arrhenius, but no-one was worried. At the then-current rate of consumption no physical change would be evident for hundreds of years.

In the 50s it was a shock to discover that Strontium 90, a radioactive isotope by-product of all those atomic and nuclear tests in the late 40's and early 50s, was now discovered to be present in the tissue of every living organism plant and animal, land and marine, on earth, even including the remote penguins of Antartica. What were we to do? I presume I still carry my share of the isotope. I do my best to keep it to myself. And people went on about their daily lives, despite the fears of the Cold War.

In the 60s Rachel Carson's Silent Spring signalled the threat of commercially and widely used toxic pesticides that had a tendency to build up in plant, human and animal tissues and organs, threatening foetal deformaties and death and the potential permanent extinction of insects and bird and animals. DDT was banned or limited, and we were told replaced by 'friendlier' ones and we all relaxed and got on with gardening and living, despite this signal warning of how our collective activities could have detrimental affects on us all.

I attended high school in the late 60s with a thalidomide boy, confined to a wheel chair and cursed with a useless fleshy claw instead of a hand. He, remarkably cheery soul, helped me understand algebra. And everyone, pregnant mothers included, continued to administer themselves with pharmaceuticals.

In the 70s the ozone layer was discovered to dissolving due to chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) everyone was using in refrigerating and air conditioning units and spray cans. We were informed we could expect to be roasted to death by the harmful UV wavelengths of ultraviolet light that the depleted ozone layer no longer deflect. When the CFCs were replaced by other propellants we all went back to using spray deodorants again to smell nice and ramping up the air con when we felt a bit warm.

Fifty years after Tetraethyllead was first added to automobile petrol, it was explained that leaded petrols were poisoning the air and biosphere, as it was immediately predicted back in the 1920s, and it was making its way into the blood of babies, promoting brain deformities and the like. No-one stopped driving, but what else could power their cars? In time solutions were found to keep cars on the road and babies safer. Countries like Austria and Brazil led the way and implemented leaded fuel bans in 1989. Eventually nearly all other countries followed suite. Australia belatedly in 2002. China, Algeria, Yemmen and Iraq still use leaded petrol.

This is getting dreary.
I think what I am trying to say is 'Who wants to take the blame for all these things?' No one person can guilty of any of this...well perhaps with the exception of Thomas Midgley (look him up, the poor bastard thought he was helping). Mistakes have been made, warnings ignored, but we blunder on. We have no other choice. We could do better, but such wisdom is nearly always only evident in hindsight.

What we can do, is live our life as best we can and to acknowledge our responsibilities for whatever choices we make regarding the environment and make compensations if we feel the need. We can temper excessive consumptions, review all those things we beleive we derive pleasure from and make considerate choices with future generations in mind. Some decisions, like driving cars, or flying overseas are just unavoidable. I dont want to go back to a cave.

I'm feeling philosophical today and maybe less able to organise and express my thoughts cogently.
My daughter in law gave birth to my second grandchild last night!
I just needed to rant a bit. I am trying not to despair about what sort of world she has entered. I have to keep hope for her and all her generation. We may all be collectively responsible for the world being the crappy way it is, but we cant individually be held guilty for it. However we can all add to the hope and continuing positive progress we have inherited, by diligently being aware of all we do and to keep informed as best we can in order to make intelligent choices.

I'm going off now to teach my new grand-daughter what a great family and beautiful world she has been born into, and how to make the most out of it all.
Have a great day all!
Enjoy it.

edited for emphasis

David Killens's picture
"In the 70s the ozone layer

"In the 70s the ozone layer was discovered to dissolving due to chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) everyone was using in refrigerating and air conditioning units and spray cans. We were informed we could expect to be roasted to death by the harmful UV wavelengths of ultraviolet light that the depleted ozone layer no longer deflect. When the CFCs were replaced by other propellants we all went back to using spray deodorants again to smell nice and ramping up the air con when we felt a bit warm."

But in the case of ozone, politicians from all sides and almost every nation recognized the scientific findings, and signed the Montreal Protocol, 197 nations.

There is always hope that politicians would stop taking money from the oil companies and actually did what they did with ozone.

CyberLN's picture
Congrats on the new grandbaby

Congrats on the new grandbaby, Grinseed!

Grinseed's picture
Thanks Cyber LN. I nursed her

Thanks Cyber LN. I nursed her for over an hour. She either slept or stared at me. Not 36 hours old. It was one of the more poignant and memorable 60 minutes of my life. Cute as a button of course.

LogicFTW's picture
@Grinseed

@Grinseed

Thanks for the long reply. I apologize I was not able to respond until now.

You only get one shot.

Fully agree. This is a huge part of my meaning of life.

No-one is solely responsible for global problems.

But most all of us has to take some responsibility, especially folks like me that contribute more to global warming then many others. (Despite solar panels, and general green practices, living even just middle class in USA = much higher than average emissions)

When the CFCs were replaced by other propellants

If only solving climate change was so easy. But I get your point, we have had challenges in the past and we have solved them. I remember reading about people saying doom and gloom in the british isles when all the "wood" would be exhausted, then all the coal, etc. Same with lead, was a disaster but mostly a success story now.

Thomas Midgley (look him up, the poor bastard thought he was helping).

Thanks for sharing that, looked him up. Shesh if someone ever had a heavy conscious...

We can temper excessive consumptions, review all those things we believe we derive pleasure from and make considerate choices with future generations in mind.

I think this model breaks down for climate change, but hey I could be wrong. As I said before the scientist have been ringing the alarm bells about as hard as they can for 30+ years now. And in those 30+ years human caused global greenhouse gas emissions has only increased. For whatever reason in the last 30 years, the techniques we have done to solve large problems like this, seems to not be working.

My daughter in law gave birth to my second grandchild last night!

Congratulations. Even if I am a bit dark about the future of climate change, the birth of your 2nd grandchild is something to celebrate. I do not plan to have kids, so instead celebrate others that take on that amazing process of life and the continuation of the human species. I especially love hearing it here, in an atheist community where they got a much better shot at being free from all the "god" lies.

I am trying not to despair about what sort of world she has entered

Understandable. There is a ted talks I have on my shortlist of links that talks about everything that humanity has done right and well in the last 50 years or so, and the list is long and impressive. There is no time in the past I would rather be alive, Now is when I want to be alive. Our lives are safer, more comfortable etc then ever before.

Have a great day all!
Enjoy it.

Thank you, I will enjoy it. I hope you do too.

Thanks for writing your response.

Algebe's picture
@LogicFTW: Not so optimistic

@LogicFTW: Not so optimistic about the most vulnerable of us around the world.

They're the ones I'm most optimistic about. Jesus said that there will always be poor. Today for the first time in history the world has rejected that defeatist idea and resolved to get rid of poverty. That's one of the Sustainable Development Goals adopted by the United Nations.

The statistics suggest that we're making progress on that. Based on current trends, I would predict that by the middle of century, everyone on Earth will enjoy a living standard equal to that achieved in Europe in the 1950s. I would also predict that advances in energy technology, agriculture, transportation, etc., will allow us to reach that level without destroying the environment.

We could accelerate this improving trend by eliminating or at least curbing religions. Every advance that promises to improve the human condition is opposed by religions. Look at what happened to the campaign to eliminate polio. Religions hinder good education at a time when we need everyone to be more scientifically literate. They also tend to oppress women. As Christopher Hitchens said, the key to eliminating poverty is the empowerment of women.

Maybe instead of worrying about CO2 levels, we should be targeting the global religiosity ratio.

LogicFTW's picture
@Algebe

@Algebe

That's one of the Sustainable Development Goals adopted by the United Nations.

A truly great goal, and much, MUCH! has been achieved in lifting up the poorest and most vulnerable of us around the world. Plenty of work left to do. But I do fear climate change over the next century could easily undo all the work we have done so far.

We could accelerate this improving trend by eliminating or at least curbing religions.

Fully agree there, I think religions and what they represent (believing things on faith instead of fact) is very detrimental to society as a whole. Especially at this time in humanity's progress/evolution. And yes I agree a good route is to further empower women, everywhere.

Maybe instead of worrying about CO2 levels, we should be targeting the global religiosity ratio.

Perhaps, to me the lack of progress on climate change is similar to that of global religiosity ratio except in one way. We still have centuries to fix the religiosity ratio and progress has been made on that already, we don't have any progress or centuries for climate change issues, (provided we do not figure out a way to reverse the damage we done sometime soon.)

Seek3R's picture
I think life should be

I think life should be enjoyed in the maximum possible way. It doesn't matter what's happening in the world. If you can change something, go ahead and do it. If you cannot change something, fuck it. However, don't go crazy while trying to change the world.

One day you're gonna die and everybody's gonna forget you in 3-4 months after that. Even if they do remember, what the hell is it gonna do anyway? At your deathbed, you're going to regret the time you wasted giving fucks about things that weren't even fuckworthy.

I don't know, maybe I am wrong or selfish but in the end I've realized that death is inevitable. It will ALL end. So why not just use the time and enjoy? Hell, be selfish if you want to as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else but just enjoy the damn life.

The problem with us humans is that we don't realize the important of something until it's gone. But the biggest problem here is that you cannot realize how important it is to LIVE life and not just SPEND LIFE because it's not possible to come back from the dead.

I don't even read the news because damn, fuck it. I just follow the quote, "Be the change you wish to see in the world". But that don't mean either that I'm constantly worrying about things which I cannot completely influence. If 99% of the people are doing the wrong and you happen to be the 1% doing the correct out of your conscience, it won't make a difference until the others also start doing the right.

But yeah, as I said, I may be selfish. I've just seen so much in life that I realize now nothing matters. There's just 1 thing to remember. One day, you'll die. Nobody is gonna fucking remember the climate when they die. But yeah that don't mean either that you become so careless that you start to destroy the world you live in.

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