AB...answer this

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Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@AB/Keith

@AB/Keith
Verbal soup...need a strainer to find any meaning in this.

Sushisnake's picture
@AB

@AB
"I had a friend named Susan who when she was born lost her mother during the delivery, that`s what I meant I feel for her even to this day. "

Good for you, Billy. I have three very close friends who delivered stillborn babies and a mother who lost my three month old baby sister to Rhesus complications when I was tiny. I don't presume to have any real understanding of how any of the four ladies feel about it, though. Yet you presume to speak for women? Please.

mykcob4's picture
@AG still fucking lying AND

@AG still fucking lying AND whining!

Sheldon's picture
Yo, AB aka Billy, any chance

Yo, AB aka Billy, any chance I'll get an answer from you ever?

If killing is wrong and life precious explain this...

Genocide is fine in the bible though, and ethnic cleansing, your deity committed and encouraged others to commit, these acts?

Do you think slaves should obey their masters?

bigbill's picture
that is not what is playing

that is not what is playing out now the Judea Christian faith is not committing those acts today. As for yesteryear you have to remember that the entire populace of those nations were evil in the God`s eyes so he has a right to do as he pleases with his creatures .God has a plan for everyone`s life just remember that. I don`t find any fault in GOD carrying out these things .he is sovereign over all things, He does as he pleases according to his justice and truth.

Aposteriori unum's picture
Yeah, then your god sucks. I

Yeah, then your god sucks. I don't want anything to do with him.

I think you miss the entire point of the conversation.

bigbill's picture
I know that it sounds like

I know that it sounds like pretty harsh treatment but you have to admit the bible states vary succinctly that there was evil in the land. So since God is patient and kind he put up with this behavior for some time then he acted accordingly. It`s like my particular life if I continue to live evil deeds then in time God would judge me. I seen this happen to countless people, Who think that there getting away with something only to suffer terribly for there evil actions .either through prison or ill health or lost of wealth. Your sin will find you out.

CyberLN's picture
If this is the case, then

If this is the case, then explain starvation, disease, homelessness, etc. of two year olds.

jonthecatholic's picture
Sin causes suffering. It

Sin causes suffering. It doesn’t need to be the person doing the sin who suffers the consequences of sin. For example, in a murder, there’s a killer and a victim. The killer is the sinner. The victim is actually suffering the consequence of the killer’s sin.

Everything you said may have come a negative effect of someone’s sin. It may not even be the parents’ fault at all. But sin does have that effect.

CyberLN's picture
So Frank, who lives in

So Frank, who lives in Ontario, sins and two-year old Hiroko, in Japan gets leukemia?

Is that the way your god has designed things?

algebe's picture
@CyberLN: "So Frank, who

@CyberLN: "So Frank, who lives in Ontario, sins and two-year old Hiroko, in Japan gets leukemia?"

That's the North Korean justice system, isn't it?

Sheldon's picture
Define sin and explain

Define sin and explain exactly how it causes suffering, or this claim get's Hitchens's razor.

" in a murder, there’s a killer and a victim. The killer is the sinner. The victim is actually suffering the consequence of the killer’s sin."

Sin is not required in any way in order to objectively see that murder can cause suffering. I could say booblygooglywots causes suffering and murder is booblygooglywots, and we know it causes suffering because murder causes suffering, and of course as I said murder is booblygooglywots, that the worst kind of circular reasoning.

"But sin does have that effect."

No it doesn't - Hitchens's razor -slash.

Aposteriori unum's picture
So, no bad people ever lived

So, no bad people ever lived good happy lives? No innocent people ever lived miserable lives? You are entirely morally bankrupt. I'm not sure I want to keep talking to you. You better say something good or I'm going to turn my back on you.

Sheldon's picture
You still haven't answered my

You still haven't answered my questions Billy...

If killing is wrong and life precious explain this...

Genocide is fine in the bible though, and ethnic cleansing, your deity committed and encouraged others to commit, these acts?

Do you think slaves should obey their masters?

bigbill's picture
The reasons why commanded

The reasons why commanded Joshua to kill was because the bible explicitly states the people were evil in the land. that's all God then has the right to terminate there lives. As for some slaves that was a way of survival for them so of course they should obey there masters, it`s common sense. Not all slaves were forced into the profession read up on your history and see that slaves couldn`t fend for themselves they needed someone to tell them what to do.

algebe's picture
@Agnostic believer: "God

@Agnostic believer: "God would judge me."

It's so easy to say god will judge everyone and balance the scales of justice in your fantasy afterlife. Working to make this world, this life better for everyone is a really hard battle. It takes courage and determination.

You Christians are wafer-crunching, wine-swilling surrender monkeys.

Nyarlathotep's picture
agnostic believer - ...[God]

agnostic believer - ...[God] has a right to do as he pleases with his creatures...He does as he pleases according to his justice and truth.

OK, so your fictitious God has the right to kill anyone he wants. But women don't have the right to control their own bodies. Wow.

bigbill's picture
Well women have no right

Well women have no right playing God God is sovereign over everything he can`t contradict himself like humanity can so he and he alone has the right to make a decision .women who have abortions are really not contemplating all the ramifications that is involved terminating a pregnancy. So you are seeing things in a twisted way here; Women shouldn`t have the right to kill there potential children.

CyberLN's picture
AB, since cells now have the

AB, since cells now have the potential to become a person (via cloning), is it wrong, IYO, to, say, spit and have it wash down the sink? Do you have that right?

Edited to add: in case you are not aware, AB, your spit contains cells from the inside of your mouth.

algebe's picture
@CyberLN: "your spit contains

@CyberLN: "your spit contains cells"

LOL. I'm a mass-murderer every time I brush my teeth.

Tin-Man's picture
@Cyber and Algebe Re:

@Cyber and Algebe Re: Spitting

Holy shit! I'm a mass murderer every time I go to the dentist! Oh, damn! We need to start boycotting and protesting outside all dentist offices!

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
Noy you TM, your teeth are

Not you TM, your teeth are alloy, except that new work which is carbon fibre and much quieter when you chew.

Tin-Man's picture
@Old Man Re: Teeth

@Old Man Re: Teeth

True, true, true. Now that you mention it, the carbon fiber ones really are much nicer and quieter. Much lower maintenance, too. Even thought about just having all the metal ones replaced, but my damn insurance won't cover the procedure. They said it would be "elective" and "cosmetic". Bastards. Insurance is such a scam.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Oh the waste of potential

Oh the waste of potential children! Every month a wasted egg by women; and millions of wasted sperm by men.

Tin-Man's picture
@Nyar Re: "...millions of

@Nyar Re: "...millions of wasted sperm by men."

EEEEEEEeeeeeek!!!! Oh, NO! Oh, gee.... My number would more likely be in the BILLIONS! I'm SO going to hell! *crying and wailing*

algebe's picture
Cue Monty Python: "Every

Cue Monty Python: "Every Sperm is Sacred, Every Sperm is good!"

Sheldon's picture
agnostic believer "...removed

agnostic believer "...removed in it's entirety using Hitchens's razor"

For someone claiming to be an agnostic you seem to be making an awful lot of claims about the nature of the deity you have chosen to believe in? I strongly suspect you have no idea what agnostic means.

Cognostic's picture
IF AB has no experience, I

IF AB has no experience, I certainly do. I have cared for people with gangrene and seen their bodies rot away for 5 and 6 years while doctors remove feet, hands, limbs, sex organs, and administer drugs to keep the patient breathing but all the while begging for death.

I have watched people die of diabetes and witnessed their skin peel from their bodies as it sticks to bed-sheets when they are turned, exposing raw flesh and open nerve endings.

I have watched people with brain cancer or Alzheimer's mindlessly wander halls in piss and fecal laden clothing, searching for their homes, a loved one who no longer exists, or even a bus or a taxi, and with whatever light that was once in them, which we called human, no longer existent.

For those who believe in quality of life and not quantity; for those who want to extend their middle finger at the insurance companies and hospitals whose goal it is to keep a bed filled and the money rolling in no matter what; for those that actually believe in human dignity and value, euthanasia is a choice and a right! No one else is going to tell me how I must die. There can be dignity and honor in death unless it is stolen away by our current medical model.

algebe's picture
@Cognostic:

@Cognostic:

That's a very moving testimony. I watched the body that used to be my mother linger on for years in a mindless fog of fear and misery.

Have you ever seen the documentary "Choosing to Die", narrated by the late Sir Terry Pratchett?

I wonder why so much money is spent on keeping old people alive in agony, and so little on helping young people with mental problems to stay alive.

Sheldon's picture
I have to say that post has

I have to say that post has said it all for me, you have concisely and honestly addressed the core issue. either a person cares about stopping suffering, or they selfishly only care that their own arrogant beliefs hold sway and are forced onto others regardless of the suffering it causes. Mother Theresa belonged to the second group, and she was a stupid callously indifferent hypocrite because of it. worse of all, evidence has surfaced since her death she didn't believe a word of it, and wrote many times to her church's hierarchy sating her unbelief.

Yet when intelligent, sane rational and empathetic people like yourself question the dogma of cruelty and suffering the faithful villify them.

Kudos for an astonishingly well written post, and for possessing true compassion, not the faux pretence so many theists espouse in blind unthinking and callously indifferent adherence to absurd archaic dogma.

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