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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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the question i asked by religious people all the time is without god, whats stopping me from murder all i want?
i say to them "i do murder all i want, and the amount i want is zero" the fact that these people think that if they didn't have this person watching over them that they would go on killing rampages is the most self-damning thing i can imagine
~Penn Jillette
"Atheism -> there is no God to whom I'm accountable -> I can do whatever I want without fear of eternal torment."
Theism> I think murder and rape is great fun, but I fear hell.
Your cretinous claim asked for that...
-------------------------------------------
"Stalin, imo the most successful atheist yet"
What the fuck is a successful atheist? Atheist is an either or position on one single claim.
"How does following atheism preclude mass murder?"
How does theism? Mass murder and genocide is ubiquitous in religions, even the biblical deity murders indiscriminately again and again.
"Wouldn't "love your enemy" be more effective?"
Noah's flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the Amalekites, the Canaanites etc etc, have you even read your bible? As for gentle Jesus meek and mild, he seems responsible for creating the concept of hell according to the bible, how exactly is torturing people forever indicative of loving your enemy?
Religion has clearly turned your brain to mush.
Which studies.... ?
Please give details.....
One such study is from the Congressional Research Service report in 2012:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL32842.pdf
This has the graph attached.
This one is rather interesting too (from 2015):
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0173001
The greatest indicators from that one are "Census block groups with more rental units, more vacant housing and higher African-American and Hispanic populations had higher numbers of shots fired." and "Having gunshots within a census block group the previous month also increased the risk of having gunshots within the census block group."
Honestly, Christianity is the answer to gun shootings. "Love your enemy" is an excellent challenge to create moral people and completely incompatible with murder. Plus, a healthy fear of moral accountability: are you ready to give an account of your life to a Holy God?
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@jesus follower
Christianity is the most violent of all organizations that ever existed! It is responsible for many genocides alone. The number one demographic in all western nations prisons is christian conservative white male and for good reason!
For every research article that you can dig up that states more guns lowers crimes, I can find at least ten from CREDIBLE sources that state the opposite.
Of course, both of your sources leave out the mitigating factor of INCREASED police presence!
The bible clearly states that whoever is not for Christ is anti-Christ; So since your not a Christian follower I would have to draw the conclusion that your a DEMON. There is nothing wrong with the justices you sighted ruling in favor of the constitution principals. That is what there suppose to do .Not legislate from the bench ,as so many do. Tell me since you were a marine for some 20+ years there was nothing wrong then since you were collecting a pay check to carrying a weapon all the time? Why wasn`t it wrong then but wrong now? You were a violent individual as all Marines are.That`s what I can see from your post!!! your post give you away as one big hypocrite .Your not a pacifist who is dispelling gun ownership but one angry mean demon .An Atheist with no soul and a lot of anger and hate.
Your is not an abbreviation of you are ffs, it's not hard. That aside you're clearly barking mad Billy, seek help is the only advice I can give.
I am not a demon, there are no such things!
Marines aren't violent, we are disciplined. Service to one's country requires one to do things above that of an average citizen.
The judges YOU say that did nothing wrong were actually legislating from the bench NOT adhering to the rule of law and the Constitution. A corporation is not an individual!
No, I am not a pacifist. I doubt you even know what a pacifist is. I am a realist. There is a big difference.
The bible doesn't say that anyone that is not for christ is THE anti-christ! The anti-christ is a specific character described in the book of myths.
There is so much wrong with your post it isn't even funny,...stupid yes, but not funny! It is actually disturbing as you are a total mental case!
I'm an antichrist because I'm opposed to genocide and torture.
"So since your not a Christian follower I would have to draw the conclusion that your a DEMON"
And I would have to draw the conclusion that *you're* a fucking muppet, good day sir!
Actually it's Islam followed by the Catholic Church
@ JF
"Honestly, Christianity is the answer to gun shootings. "Love your enemy" is an excellent challenge to create moral people and completely incompatible with murder. Plus, a healthy fear of moral accountability: are you ready to give an account of your life to a Holy God?"
Oh yes tell that to the Thomasinian Christians the Portugues Faithful,destroyed, the women, farmers and children massacred in the 12 Crusades,...and the Philipinos, and the Hawaiians, Tongans, Maori, Palestinians and Syrians and Afghans and English and Scots and anyone who disagreed with the Church? The Arian heretics, the settlers the Mormons Massacred, The First Nations on every continent,shot, poisoned, dispossessed and enslaved.
All the women poisoned, drowned burnt and tortured for being herbalists...oh yes the religion of peace and example of Paul/Saul the liar.
What a thing you are to even attempt that magnificent piece of trumpery. (nothing to do with POTUS)
(edited for clarity)
@Old man shouts: Oh yes tell that to ... enslaved.
Wouldn't you want those criminals to give an account before a Holy, Holy, Holy God? I agree wishful thinking doesn't make it so, but don't you want justice?
@JF
and if they repent and embrace his son Jesus on their deathbed...oh wait...no hell for you? At least be consistent.
@Jesus Follower
Yay cherry picking data.
All violent crime went down percentage wise, (guns or not,) in the late 90's as true decent paying full time jobs were at all time highs. And a large increase in police forces were implemented.
Additionally crime accountability went way up. Why? Mostly due to the ubiquity of cameras. Everyone has a camera in their pocket now, everyone can share video on the internet easily and quickly. You can buy an internet connected high def, infrared capable security camera for your home for as little as 50 bucks now. Criminals know that. The ones too stupid to realize that frequently get caught on their first offense now. Criminals have moved on to easier crime they are more likely to get away with, identity theft, scams and the like. They do not need weapons for that.
How about you look at a graph of mass shootings in the last 10 years. I can already tell you which direction that graph is trending... UP.
@LogicForTW: How about you look at a graph of mass shootings in the last 10 years.
You're probably right. The more I think on it, there are lots of factors.
As long as I get to keep shotguns and handguns to protect my family, I'm good. No need for assault rifles. Is that fair?
I would feel better for singular, rather than plural, (what do you really need multiple shotguns and handguns for?) But even if I was supreme dictator of the land and could pass any law, I would not be interested in taking away handguns and shotguns from responsible gun owners.
I would remind all gun owners that the numbers show, on average, guns cause more harm to the owners then it helps, but I am used to the idea that people are not interested in hearing that.
Some interesting demographics on gun ownership here:
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/22/key-takeaways-on-america...
it does not support some of the claims made by Christians on here. This stuck out as well....
"Gun owners and non-owners have differing views on the severity of gun violence. Overall, half of Americans say gun violence is a very big problem in the United States, but perceptions of gun violence vary considerably by gun ownership. While six-in-ten non-gun owners (59%) see gun violence as a very big problem in the country today, only a third of adults who own guns say the same."
I am a non gun owner. (I believe in smart prevention against possible crime against me.) I have security cameras on my entrances that are internet connected. I have reasonably secured my windows and other possible entrances.
-- Useful Tip: -- With an obvious camera at my main entrance the amount of scammers, (used to get 1-2 a year,) that knock on my door has dropped to zero in the last 3 years since I put them up.
I do not have any one that wishes me harm that I am aware of, and I do not work in a dangerous, gun violence prone, line of work. I am aware of the statistics that having a gun in your home actually greatly increases the likelihood of gun violence in your home rather than deter it, (especially if you consider suicide by gun.) Criminals often times target homes of known gun owners (they just make sure you are not home, which is usually very easy.) As guns are one of the most lucrative and useful, (to them,) things a person can steal from a home.
The nearest police station is less than 5 minutes from my home and are well funded so emergency response time is quick. I do not have kids.
I actually do not see gun violence as a very big problem for me in this country today. The odds of me or those closest to me being involved in gun violence due to solid preventive actions on my part is less than 1 in a million and avoiding risky behavior. I am far more concerned for my safety driving or riding a vehicle, and keeping myself healthy and eating right to lower my odds of heart disease, cancer, or other medical disease that claim a vast! majority of lives in my age/ethnicity/income/gender bracket.
Is gun violence terrible? I absolutely agree. Should we do something about it? Emphatically yes. Especially when all we need to do is put in some common sense gun control in place to greatly reduce the numbers of mass shootings, as well as general gun violence.
But am I very worried about the severity of gun violence? Nope. Does it affect me? By and large; no so far, nor do I ever expect it to based purely on the odds.
There is an indisputable strong positive correlation over the last 10,000 years between gun ownership and gun violence.
That is pretty funny, and true!
While I have no idea if your statement is true or false; the graph you posted does not show that. In fact it can't possibly show that since gun ownership is not one of the dimensions.
How about we also ban drugs so that no one will have them? Oh- that's right.
I would love to see at least the pitiful amount of control and banning of many drugs applied to guns. Most harmful drugs that everyone agrees are way too easy to get ahold of, are still harder to get ahold of, then a gun built only for killing lots of humans quickly and easily. In Florida all you need is some money and an ID that says you are over 18, to buy as many guns and ammo designed for mass shootings as you want completely legally without any fear of the police or working with criminals.
Plus comparing the ban on certain drugs to banning guns as the base of your argument is completely and utterly absurd.
Is is? 10,000 people die every year from guns (7,000 of those are suicide, which I support), on the other hand 66,000 people die every year from opioid overdose, 300,000 die every year from obesity, and 400,000 die every year from smoking. So not only is it not absurd, it makes total sense. If you want to ban guns, then you should ban smoking and fast food first.
Americans spend an average of 48 minutes a day travelling in cars. They don't generally spend an average of 48 minutes a day firing guns. You should compare like with like.
This is a single issue American Empicist (stupid name btw).
The people that die of overdose, obesity, smoking, made a choice and don't intend to hurt other innocent people. And there is no list of what we should do "first". That is absurd!
Well it's all I could think of.
Either way, most gun deaths are voluntary like I said and what about second hand smoke?
Also, owning a gun isn't the same as murder, just like publishing a book isn't the same as libel. It only gives you the capability to commit murder or libel to a greater degree than you otherwise could. If we have 3,000 gun related murders each year and your average life expectancy is 80, and half of Americans own guns, then your average gun owner has at most a 0.15% chance of murdering someone in their whole lifetime and that is a gross overestimate since more than half of Americans own guns and its assuming that all those murders are committed by separate people.
@AE
Defending the indefensible! Ridiculous!
So let's treat guns like 2nd hand smoke! I'm for that. Let's regulate the shit of guns to the point that you can't have one anywhere at anytime!
@American Empiricist:
TLDR: American Empiricist gets owned, hard, by cold numbers on every point he tried to make.
-Your numbers are off. In 2013 at least 33,636 died due to injury from firearms. (Not all firearm deaths are reported.) And those numbers have gone up since then. That 10.1 deaths per 100k people.
-I assume you did not mean that you support suicide by gun. (I hope?)
-In 2013 (trying to compare same years here,) at least 44,000 people overdosed. (13.8 deaths per 100k.) I am well aware death via overdose has spiked in the last 4 years. If you can find .gov sites that list more recent year numbers, that is fine I am happy to use that data, but I suspect it is more like 11 per 100k for guns and like 18 per 100k for OD.
-What makes it absurd is, as others have pointed out, is the: at least 11,208 (year 2013) homicide number by guns. Amount of homicides via overdosing? probably around 10. Maybe 100 if there is a whole lot of very scary people out there trying to cover up murder via OD'ing. The amount of homicides from smoking and fast food? Again, less than 10 each.
You tell me which is the problem for homicide, guns or those other things. Which of those things people use much more frequently specifically to kill other people?
Suicide is also terrible, cigarettes are terrible, lots of junk food is also terrible. But at least their is a personal choice there.
That is the first semi decent question/point you put up. Even then it is not the same for obvious reasons, you don't kill someone walking by someone and blowing cigarette smoke in their face. Instead, it is people that live near smokers that have increased chances of dying to disease later on that was exacerbated by being around lots of 2nd hand smoke. But yes, 2nd hand smoke is real issue and long term it probably leads to lower overall life expectancy on average for people exposed to it.
That is obvious, that is like saying the sun rises in the east. Owning a knife is not the same thing as murder. But what you are trying to say in different words is the common gun fanatic defense: "guns don't kill people, people kill people." If you agree with that, how do you defend someone owning a gigaton hydrogen bomb? ..bombs don't kill people, people kill people again? So by your logic you are perfectly fine for anyone that wants to, to own a gigaton nuclear bomb? How about something a tad more realistic? Would you be fine if a new person bought your nearest neighbors house and felt like storing 5000 pounds of dynamite in his residence? Not because he needed it for work, but just because he liked to have lots of dynamite? No problem! "bombs don't kill people, people kill people!"
Again you seem to not be aware of facts about guns at all, where are you getting these numbers from? they are garbage! There is an estimated 300-350 million guns in the US depending on how you define a gun and condition of the gun. Here is another fact you should be aware of the average household with gun owners has 8.2 guns. (as of 2014) 2% of americans own 50% of all guns. Of course gun lobbies, gun magazines and that culture do not talk about that. Why? Because as of 2016 only 36% of all households have a gun at all. And a vast majority of those households are single small hand gun households collecting dust for years on end in hopefully a gun safe. It only due to "super collectors" in that 2-3 percent that own 50 percent of all guns, that have on average nearly 18 guns each!
If it was possible to collect data on murder rate of these super gun owners that own 50 percent of all the guns in US, I imagine the numbers would be shocking. Doing some napkin math, 2 percent of the population with 50 percent of the guns. 11,208 murders via guns, That means this 2 percent of the population super gun owners, blanket gun owner to gun murder rates, that means that 2 percent super gun owners, are responsible for (in 2013 numbers) 5600 murders a year. US population was 316 million in 2013 2 percent of that is 6.32 million people. Using your 80 years life expectancy number. 5600 times 80 = 448,000, 448,000 murders by 6.32 million people. = a little over 14 percent chance your average "super" gun owner that as a group owns 50% of all guns will murder someone over 80 years.
If your neighbor had a 14% chance that he will murder someone with a gun, would you want that person as a neighbor? I THINK NOT. And don't forget, homicide via guns per 100k people has only gone UP since 2013. This of course does not even bring suicide into the argument.
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