Because he can't get the point...

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Deforres's picture
The merits of what you are

The merits of what you are considering and the proof behind it are just as important.

Sir Random's picture
Xavier is right. If you can't

Xavier is right. If you can't cough up any proof, you have nothing.

Drewcgs11's picture
Well you will stay blinded by

Well you will stay blinded by the chambers of impossibility until some scientists comes out and explains the very same concept only then will it make logical sense to you. Its been scientifically proven that people reject knowledge and wisdom from certain people and accepts it from others who might not be deserving. I think if richard Dawkins was explaining this theory right now it would be more respectable to you guys based on who he is and not the actual description.

Sir Random's picture
My father had a saying:

My father had a saying: "Prove it or move it"

the_believer's picture
You are more perceptive than

You are more perceptive than you have let on if you realized, alone, that appeals to authority are disproportionately powerful.

Sir Random's picture
To whom are you speaking?

To whom are you speaking?

the_believer's picture
To Andrewcgs. Please tread

To Andrewcgs. Please tread carefully around the caveat I planted in the comment.

Drewcgs11's picture
Was that a compliment?

Was that a compliment?

Drewcgs11's picture
Was that a compliment?

Was that a compliment?

Deforres's picture
Thank you for trying, my

Thank you for trying, my young protege, but I don't think he will ever understand that.

Kataclismic's picture
Hawaii is an island that

Hawaii is an island that exists because of volcanic activity. This is in turn a result of the heat in the center of our planet. Hawaii exists. If it was created then the processes that created it have nothing to do with its creation but can be proven by the existence of the island. So if we say that Hawaii was created what we are actually doing is comprehending the processes that created it, but for you and I and most of human existence, it has just always been there. It is only after you study the processes of volcanic activity that you can point a finger towards it having been created. When it comes to the universe the beginning or "creation" is assumed and we view our evidence as pointing towards that conclusion. There's no reason to assume the Hawaiian islands have been there just as long as the universe and assume that this length of time is forever. To assume differently requires the ability to imagine other possibilities.

We must first understand the processes contained within this universe (such as quantum physics and black-hole phenomena) before we can make an assumption about the forces that may or may not have created it. But that's what 94% of people do... make assumptions.

the_believer's picture
"Hawai'i is an island that

"Hawai'i is an island that exists because of volcanic activity." - You

I hate to bring it up, but arguments by mathematical extrapolation from evidence produced experimentally are inductive, not deductive, as all physical measurements have an associated uncertainty, and all extrapolations in argument are inductions by analogy. Therefore, I think that you mean to argue that Hawai'i probably exists because of its volcanic activity, not that it does, unless you have unique documentation predating Hawai'i. This is a fundamental problem with experimental science, analogous to the fundamental problem in the philosophy of science that at some point, evidence must be connected to reality probabilistically.

Sir Random's picture
Who's side are you on? Xavier

Who's side are you on? Xavier's? Andrews? Are you just shooting at weaknesses as you see them?

the_believer's picture
A debate is a process of

A debate is a process of logical revision, not a shouting match; the only side to take is that of logic.

the_believer's picture
Really, I'm hoping that

Really, I'm hoping that Andrewcgs will go away, though, so I'm getting off-topic, as in the last thread, that seemed to discourage him somewhat.

Sir Random's picture
Ah, be carful with that. That

Ah, be carful with that. That's actually in one of the forum rules. But, seeing the purpose it's being used for, our mod may over look it.

the_believer's picture
Oh, but it's all for the sake

Sir Random:

Oh, but it's all for the sake of the debate! Andrew's topic has gotten us nowhere, so we might as well chat off on the side.

P.S.: Good point.

Sir Random's picture
I aim to please...... wait,

I aim to please...... wait, that's a lie..

the_believer's picture
One does what one feels is

One does what one feels is necessary to survive.

Sir Random's picture
Indeed. I feel we may get

Indeed. I feel we may get along famously. Do tell, what do you think about the "Devils Advocate" thing. I've always enjoyed it.

the_believer's picture
I find myself addicted, and

I find myself addicted, and terribly so, at that. It has always been something of a weakness of mine, to illuminate the flaw, and to chisel at the corner. For what good does the debate forum that lacks debate itself? And after all I have seen so far, we really can be a dull bunch at times, can we not? Recently, it seems, the passerby have saved no ire in their onslaught, however, so perhaps I ought to spare my voice.

Sir Random's picture
Only till the passerby leave.

Only till the passerby leave. We don't get them all that often, and I could use the help of another with a passion for playing Devil's Advocate during those in between times.

the_believer's picture
It seems that we have a sort

It seems that we have a sort of arrangement, then.

Sir Random's picture
I would shake hands on it,

I would shake hands on it, but......

Kataclismic's picture
"This is a fundamental

"This is a fundamental problem with experimental science, analogous to the fundamental problem in the philosophy of science that at some point, evidence must be connected to reality probabilistically." -M. V. Reeves

These processes are fairly well documented, for your probabilistic review:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31848255

But your post demonstrates the other side of my point; no matter how much evidence is presented it can always be misinterpreted.

the_believer's picture
Well documented or not, the

Well documented or not, the logic that ensues must still be inductive at heart. I contend that it is very probable that Hawai'i was formed as you, and others before you, do report. I haven't misinterpreted your evidence because I haven't touched it.

Kataclismic's picture
The point I was trying to

The point I was trying to make is that creation means a multitude of different things and it is the definition of this word that must be established before one can decide if such an action takes place. Suffice it to say you could assert that Hawaii evolved from a volcano and therefore was never created. I can't argue with that and there's no point in trying. The problem becomes the word and its implications. Processes that create things, on the other hand, prove much more interesting to discuss because they don't fall into the trap of presupposition .

Drewcgs11's picture
Proof is only necessary when

Proof is only necessary when you are trying to prove something to be true, i am not trying to do that the requirements for my theory is a open mind, critical thinking skills, and a logical train of thought which you guys have proven over hours of conversation to be extremely lacking. Which only strengthens my confidence in my theory in how simple it is in nature and how very few can fully grasp it at its foundation.
Obviously you did not get my example on the fact that you do not need proof to consider something smh as i said its like explaining evolution to a Christian its so simple BUT THEY JUST DON'T GET IT!

Sir Random's picture
Your not trying to prove your

Your not trying to prove your idea is true? Then why the hell did you put it up in the first place?

the_believer's picture
Sir Random:

Sir Random:

Now seems like about the right time to mention that in his original post, only a few hundred comments and even more replies ago, on the original thread, Andrewcgs implied that he wanted to post the ideas only for consideration, not for debate.

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