Denmark acknowledges failure of multiculturalism - forced assimilation
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Singapore applied some pretty brutal social engineering and basically have a full time mercenary force employed constantly to enforce peace. incidentally the mercs are not allowed to fuck the locals or marry them.
The Nazis had some radical notions on social engineering as well. Your point?
It's possible for ethnic minorities to integrate and be decent productive citizens whilst maintaining the cultural identity of their origins. Sadly people with agendas from both sides use the failures in an opportunistic way, and don't want to focus on the successful immigrants. Immigrants who bring so much to the countries they settle in. It amazes most when I see this attitude in Americans of all people you'd think they'd see the benefit of immigration. It's laudable perhaps that the Danish government want to tackle the problems some of their policies have produced, but it's wrong even reading just the one news story TD linked to assume that the Danes want to end immigration or multiculturalism, they merely want to shape it by trying to remove some of the negative aspects a small minority have produced.
Why TD thinks wanting immigrants to be productive and to assimilate to the best examples of the societies they settle in is anathema to a left wing viewpoint he seems reticent to share?
I think it behoves all decent people to be wary of policies that target children for experiments in social change in a very overt display of force. That just simple common sense to anyone with a grasp of 20th century European politics and how it has treated and viewed minorities.
Being enraged and intolerant when we hear of abhorrent behaviours by immigrants is easy, this is how bigots and racists opportunistically demonise such groups and demographics, what is hard is making measured balanced responses in policy and law making that help improve immigration without persecuting or stigmatising immigrants who don't deserve it.
It's one of the reasons I voted to stay in the EU, and why I am worried about some aspects of BREXIT.
My friends, they are not fleeing Islam to embrace western values.
It is jihad by immigration, hijra, Muslim conquest through migration.
[removed hot link and promotion for a hate site:
Just as with religious claims I'm going to need some objective evidence that your scaremongering is justified. Much of European civilisation has been Muslim for centuries, like the centuries old Muslim communities that were murdered by the Serbian ultra right wing christians, they were eroded all right, despite having lived for centuries in the cultural and ethnic melting pot of their country and communities as one of the nest examples of multiculturalism.
What is it you think "Europe" should be doing I wonder to these "unwanted" Muslims? I suspect you have what some might call a "solution", let us hope it isn't a final one like recent christian European sentiment formulated for another religious demographic they first demonised by much the same kind of rhetoric i am seeing here..
Anyway my grandson birthday, so I off out now.
do not promote other websites, doubly so for hate sites
These policies seem like the perfect recipe for radicalization. Opportunist Islamist politicians and activists will point to the measures as a direct attack on Muslims through their children. Opportunist far right politicians will point to Islamist statements and actions as evidence that Muslims are dangerous.
Conflict is the desired outcome for demagogues at both extremes.
It's natural for immigrants from the same countries to cluster together to share knowledge about their new environment and provide mutual support. This pattern was evident even among British immigrants in New Zealand, which used to be known as the most British place outside of Britain. So I can imagine how Middle Eastern people feel in Scandinavia.
To succeed, integration policies needed to make positive use of this tendency by using immigrant community networks to provide education and support. I fear that it's too late now, though. The divisive, corrosive forces of Islam and racism are feeding off each other.
Precisely correct, and again a measured balanced policy on immigration is what produces best results, extreme actions usually produce extreme reactions. Education is key of course, but that does not mean anyone is morally justified in trying to counter parental indoctrination with state indoctrination, the idea makes me very uneasy.
My ethnic elders that have pretty all died now extended the life of their dialect for an extra generation after it became extinct in their parent country. They migrated as illiterate adults who never went to school. The most important thing for them is that their children totally assimilated in order to prosper in the new home.
They contributed immensely to the prosperity of their adopted country while still respecting their own language, food, art, culture.
Some cultures are making no effort to assimilate.
Some people, not some cultures, though some cultures have less in common than others of course. In my culture just two generations ago children in their own country in the UK were beaten in school after being caught speaking their own language. It was systematic policy by the government, where children caught using their own language instead of English had a wooden sign hung around their neck by a piece of string, they could only remove it if they heard another child using their own language and the child with it at the end of the day was flogged, these were 5 year old children away from their Welsh speaking parents for the first time.
So a government policy to integrate children into speaking the language they thought the whole UK should use. Sound familiar?
The attempts of successive governments based in Westminster to eradicate that language and culture is centuries old, and had of course not entirely succeeded. In recent years we have learned from past mistakes and now try to promote cultural diversity as a good thing. Different languages, food, music these benefit the countries that accept immigrants. It's a good idea to note that immigration and multiculturalism is not a failure because some serious problems result from a small minority. The fears over what Islamic beliefs pose is generally way out of proportion to the facts. This is not to suggest we should ignore problems, just that we put them in perspective, and that our reactions are proportioned accordingly.
Separating children from their families for a part of the week and having harsher punishments for crimes based on where people live is draconian.
I'd rather that citizens be given positive incentives to integrate into society.
Separating children from their family for part of the week is called going to school for fucks sake. Keeping your kids in an ethnic enclave to brainwash them on your personal religion while drawing welfare is called child abuse you fucking lame ass Muslim apologist.
"Going to school" typically starts at 5 or 6. The Danish system will start at 1. Lots of children start going to daycare from that age or younger, but making it compulsory is a bit radical.
Could you dial down the rhetoric for once please. Insulting people for offering an alternative viewpoint on a debate forum is moronic. That last sentence was both out of proportion, and uncalled for, as well as being an unabashed lie since he made no mention of Muslims specifically. The welfare of children is paramount, and it behoves us all to be concerned when decisions are made about their education.
You seem unable to be rational on this subject.
The Gov is only doing it to at risk children which is their duty of care.
If they were fundamentalist xian parents atheists would want the parents locked up.
@Terminal Dogma: The Gov is only doing it to at risk children which is their duty of care.
Google "Stolen generation" and "Australia" for an example of a well-intentioned government policy targeting at-risk children. Also look up the stories of British children shipped off to Australia and New Zealand as "orphans" in the postwar era.
Are they? You might want to tread the story you linked, as other viewpoints were expressed in it. Either way where the welfare of children is concerned we should all be cautious. I love the way that ideas that mesh with your political views are portrayed by you as moral crusades though, and that by implication anyone who disagrees is being immoral. You possess an odd knack for polarising the extremes in a debate and ignoring anything in between. Nice use of a reductio ad absurdum fallacy in your straw man claim at the end there though. You do love to generalise and making sweeping claim about large demographics.
Just googled it, every major australian newspaper reported it as a myth and a total misrepresentation of the facts to mislead the public for political purposes by then Kevin Rudd. The only outlets that supported were leftists like the abc. Not even the statistics support it.
You have been a victim of propaganda.
@Terminal Dogma: You have been a victim of propaganda.
Here's a link to the Australian Human Rights Commission. Click on Item 1.13.
The information is based on the "Bringing Them Home" report, which was produced in 1997 when the conservative prime minister John Howard was in office.
The Australian government estimates that 20-25,000 children were removed from their families between 1910 and 1970. Note that last year. 1970.
I hope you're not going to deny the Holocaust as well.
Child were taken into care because their useless parents neglected them, that is not stealing. Most were teens. Those doc's don't support theft. They support child welfare.
I see no retraction of the accusation it was leftist propaganda there? You did read the part where he pointed out the report was conducted by a conservative government? If it really were propaganda then that would make it right wing propaganda, ahem.
I have to agree with TD in a way. It seems leftist to him is anyone who is more progressive than he is, and that is just about everyone. So in a way he is correct, every problem in the world comes at him from the left; but only because of geography.
Three leftists walk into a bar and exclaim "Oh no, we're in another contrived scenario!".
I can understand women, homosexuals, Yazidis and Coptic Christians fleeing persecution, but why does a military age, male Muslim need to emigrate from an Islamic country?
From 1970 to 1972, I lived in Europe. I fear that if I returned now it would be unrecognizable. Europe is committing cultural suicide.
It's called Brown power - diversity makes us all stronger because Obama said so.
Let me guess this is leftist propaganda right? You guys are hilarious fair play. So if you're an atheist what kind of symbol do you burn when undesirable ethnic minorities move into the neighbourhood?
"why does a military age, male Muslim need to emigrate from an Islamic country?"
When did Islamic countries place a moratorium on persecuting men over the age they can join the armed forces?
The farce is strong with this one Obi Wan.
"From 1970 to 1972, I lived in Europe. I fear that if I returned now it would be unrecognizable. "
More rhetoric, I also lived in Europe in the seventies, and still do, some things change, some things don't, c'est la vis.
"Europe is committing cultural suicide."
Another one who plagiarises heavily from the right wing book of rhetoric. You guys must have stricken the word histrionics from the dictionary as it has been rendered moot by this constant hand ringing hysteria. I was planning a trip to the supermarket but I may not bother, god forbid I should run into any Johnny foreigner types, gulp.
Or alternatively I'll order an Indian takeaway, cultural suicide never tasted so good.
This thread should be called "Danish Government acknowledges it has failed to address certain problems with their immigration policies"
I guess lefties are crap at pithy slogans.