Does everything have a start?

342 posts / 0 new
Last post
Sheldon's picture
Are you saying atoms need

Are you saying atoms need supernatural magic from a deity to be as they are?

Evidence please.

"if you were to choose a hypothetical universe at random, atomic nuclei would not form."

How does choosing a fictional deity at random help solve this hypothetical issue you have created that doesn't reflect reality and the material universe we KNOW exists, because we can objectively evidence it?

xenoview's picture


Have you seen an average universe?

Have you seen all of our universe?

David Killens's picture


"Most universes would not contain complex structures; not even atoms would form."

No one, not even the brightest minds, can know what is going on outside of our known universe. You are just making up shit.

TheBlindWatchmaker's picture
Not entirely true and it is

Not entirely true and it is ongoing, Read the papers by Webb and King in regards to the fine structure constant that appears to be different from reading taken in New South Wales, compared to that of results from the VLT in Chile.

Nyarlathotep's picture
Dan - ...if we change just

Dan - ...if we change just one little thing with gravity or the standard model we just get particles bouncing off each other endlessly for eternity...

Only if you assume the other forces are independent; an assumption which there is no evidence for (to my knowledge anyway), and some evidence against.

Sheldon's picture
"No if we change just one

"No if we change just one little thing with gravity or the standard model we just get particles bouncing off each other endlessly for eternity. Most hypothetical universes are like that; no adhesion, no complex structures. Our universe is very special; look out how complex carbon chemistry is for example."

I'm still not seeing how this objectively evidences unexplained magic from an inscrutable and unevidenced deity? TBH it still reads like you're using an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.

xenoview's picture

Still no objective evidence that your god is real.

Sapporo's picture
The reason why @Dan cannot

The reason why @Dan cannot think of anything in the natural world without a start is because the natural world is understood to be an isolated system: for every effect, there is a cause. Nothing can be meaningfully said however about what caused the natural world or even if it has a cause.

According to @Dan's reasoning, in which he contends that time and matter must have had a start, the natural world could have created itself after ending time which either results in a paradox or means that reality is eternal and thus has no start.

It is not clear to me why @Dan needs "God", "creator of the universe", "a real physical entity", rather than a physical world with no creator.

Randomhero1982's picture
Its funny how they always

Its funny how they always describe their god as wise, smart, intelligent, caring, good, just etc...

And yet they all reside in an insignificant spec of space, on a dying rock, orbiting a dying star that will consume and kill literally everyone and everything on this planet.

Makes perfect sense.... if you've suffered a head injury...

Devans99's picture
I have proof Eternalism (IE

Sorry posted on other thread

Cognostic's picture
WOW! This thread is a long

WOW! This thread is a long time dead? Are we now resurrecting threads instead of erasing them?


Donating = Loving

Heart Icon

Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.

Or make a one-time donation in any amount.