The God Delusion

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Sheldon's picture
3 pages in, and not one

3 pages in, and not one citation from professor Dawkins book. Apollo just admit you have never read TGD, or offer some citation from it, with a cogent argument of your own against that text.

Liar liar pants on fire is all that's left to say really.

arakish's picture
@ Sheldon — Re: "Liar liar

@ Sheldon — Re: "Liar liar pants on fire is all that's left to say really."

BWA...Ha...Ha...Ha... Ain't heard that one in a long, long time in a galaxy far away... Thanks for the laugh... And the truth...


Apollo's picture

The Zeitgeist may move, and move in a generally progressive direc
but as I have said it is a sawtooth not a smooth improvement,
and there have been some appalling reversals. Outstanding rever
deep and terrible ones, are provided by the dictators of the
twentieth century. It is important to separate the evil intentions of
men like Hitler and Stalin from the vast power that they wielded in
achieving them. I have already observed that Hitler's ideas and
intentions were not self-evidently more evil than those of Caligula
- or some of the Ottoman sultans, whose staggering feats of nasti
are described in Noel Barber's Lords of the Golden Horn.
Hitler had twentieth-century weapons, and twentieth-century com
technology at his disposal. Nevertheless, Hitler and
Stalin were, by any standards, spectacularly evil men. Duhhhhhhhhh

chimp3's picture
Hitler was a Catholic! Stalin

Hitler was a Catholic! Stalin a brutal dictator.

Apollo's picture
You overlook that Stalin was

You overlook that Stalin was an atheist.

Sapporo's picture
Apollo: You overlook that

Apollo: You overlook that Stalin was an atheist.

Actually, there is evidence that Stalin was in fact a theist.

But what exactly is your point?

arakish's picture
To further what Sapporo

To further what Sapporo posted.

I read somewhere that Stalin was ONLY atheist due to the fact that he viewed himself as "a god." Thus, his purges was against those who refused to bow down to his totalitarian tyranny.


Sheldon's picture
Stalin was an atheist, who

Stalin was an atheist, who trained at a seminary as a priest ironically. Hitler was a christian and a catholic. The SS soldiers who ran the death camps like Auschwitz, were exclusively christian, you had to be a christian before you were allowed into the German SS. This was relaxed later in the war but only for regiments recruited outside of Germany, and they still had to be theists. A muslim regiment was formed in eastern Europe believe it or not.

arakish's picture
Hey Nyarlathotep,

Hey Nyarlathotep,

Another case of plagiarism. This post:

I used my plagiarism checker it returned 70.3% plagiarized from here:


Apollo's picture
Nazi persecution of Catholics
arakish's picture
And I guess that is where the

And I guess that is where the Catholics got the idea to persecute little children by raping and molesting them? And do not forget the other Christians. Because even they are guilty of abuse.


Apollo's picture
some people get the idea to

some people get the idea to persecute children. I doubt catholcism, protestantism, or atheism had anything to do with the causes of it.

arakish's picture
Then why is it the Religious

Then why is it the Religious Absolutists persecute, abuse, rape, and molest children? Are they not the "shepherds of the people?" Does that not imply that they are NOT to do such things? Why is it that 93% of all convicted child molesters are CHRISTIAN? AND NONE ARE ATHEIST? And what the fuck is wrong with you Christians that you are so fascinated with raping and molesting children?

As RandomHero1982 said, you are a waste of oxygen.


Edit: added a left out word

Sheldon's picture
Yes Catholics have been

Yes Catholics have been persecuting each other and other christians, and of course Jews for centuries. What's your point?

Randomhero1982's picture
Well that's Apollo's retarded

Well that's Apollo's retarded claim in a bit shell...

Athiest "evolution via natural selection, heavily proven, passes pier review makes logical and rational sense.

Apollo "magic man in the sky!" *claps hands*


Atheists "Thats for scientists to confirm, so far there are competing models that don't require the suspension of the laws of nature and physics... I.e. quantum fluctuations prior to the big bang, let's follow the evidence"

Apollo "my imaginary friend did it!!!!"

Athiest "do you have evidence to support this?"

Apollo "errr... Hitler was an athiest!"

Utter bollocks again from a person with the intellectual integrity of a brain damaged raccoon.

The funny thing is however, none of this subjects have fuck all to do directly with atheism.

Athiesm is simply one answer to one question.

But perhaps that makes us more sceptical in wanting evidence and accepting points that have substantial evidence to support them.

Apollo's picture


Nope, that's not Apollo's claim. You are floundering. I believe in Evolution. Its a natural process that God created. Evolutionary theory does counter the claims of Fundamentalist Christians, but I am not a fundamentlaist. Many Christians believe in evolution. Its a fallacy that evolution disproves the existence of God.

I didn't say Hitler was an atheist. Sheldon proposed Hitler was in league with the Catholics, yet history clearly shows the Nazi's persecuted Catholics.

"Atheism is one answer to one question". Its a faith that nature and natural process are all that exist. It implies that the material of the universe created itself, or it always existed. Which ever you chose is a matter of faith.

("Retarded". Insulting is a weak man's way of trying to look strong.)

Sheldon's picture
"Its a faith that nature and

"Its a faith that nature and natural process are all that exist."

No it isn't, it;s an axiomatic fact that natural phenomena exist. What objective evidence can you demonstrate that anything else exists?

"It implies that the material of the universe created itself, or it always existed. "

Atheism implies nothing of the sort, atheism simply doesn't believe a deity exists, nothing more and nothing less.

" I believe in Evolution. Its a natural process that God created."

Evolution is objectively evidenced beyond any reasonable doubt, no one can demonstrate any evidence a deity exists, including you as you have been asked enough times now to do so.

arakish's picture
@ Sheldon

@ Sheldon

Have a question for ya. Why do Religious Absolutists always have to tell us what we are thinking and what we always say?


Sheldon's picture
When someone is as ill

When someone is as ill informed as apollo they tend to be pretty strident. I don't even think these are all his ideas, there are simply too many theistic cliches being parroted here. He's just offering straw man arguments, and logical fallacies. It's quite funny to see him pat himself on the back though as if he's being profound and creating a compelling argument. So far all he's managed to tell us about himself is that he believes a deity exists, is a christian, believes the bible is true, but not literally.

He's obviously seen the likes of William Lane Craig in action, and finds this scatter gun approach convincing, but we can all see he is simply making unevidenced claims and moving on without bothering to answer posters who are questioning those claims, in between making up lies about what others have said.

arakish's picture
@ Sheldon

@ Sheldon

Very good answer. Love it. But actually the question was rhetorical and tongue-in-cheek. However, I still loved you answer.

Thanks bunches. Maybe it will help other theists out in "not what to do."


Randomhero1982's picture
What you said...

What you said...

I believe in evolution. It's a natural process that God created.

What I claimed...

Athiest "evolution via natural selection, heavily proven, passes pier review makes logical and rational sense.

Apollo "magic man in the sky!" *claps hands*

It would appear that I am pretty spot on!

And my colourful articulation is nothing but whimsy, so suck it buttercup.

Apollo's picture
A summary of some issues and

A summary of some issues and points:
1. Sheldon continues to be passionate and jumping to conclusions, despite the claim of objectivists that science should be dispassionate. He got his quote from The God Delusion from me, then became mysteriously silent. No more Dawkins loves Popper's falsifiability critera either, as that claim is also false. he expressed the view that he hopes this thread ends soon. I'm not surprised. Sheldon's a good speller and typist though.
2. Randomhero1982 thinks evolution disproves God's existence, eventhough it doesn't. Science isn't about if God exists or doesn't exist, its about how the universe works.
3. chimp3 or something similiar, who works in a mental heath context, gave us an example of a delusion: a woman who believed she was Harry Truman. To me that's a delusion, a seriously false belief, and not just a mistake with subjective validity. The latter are false too, but not delusions. Its something like a belief in a square circle. Dawkins waters down the meaning of delusion to suit his personal goals. Hence, his book the God Delusion fails, and appeals only to mixed up thinkers.
4. old man continued to demand the "yardstick" by which I evaluated the Bible despite the fact I answer that many times in another thread. Its literature, so it is evaluated accordingly.

Sheldon's picture
1. I am not a scientists and

1. I am not a scientists and have never claimed to be. You have not offered a single citation from TGD and far from being reticent I have asked you repeatedly to provide a chapter and page number for your claim that Professor Dawkins asserted science could examine unfalsifiable claims, so far you have offered none, obviously, and I repeat my offer for you to evidence your claim with chapter and page number, and I have a copy of TGD close to hand. I have expressed no desires on the longevity of this thread that I am aware of? Nor do I see the relevance if I had done so, of my expressing a desire for an end to your specious verbiage.
2. Randomhero1982 made no such claim, you're dishonestly misrepresenting what he said again. have you even rad the ten commandments? You are a shameless liar even by the standards I have seen from religious apologists.
3. A delusion is defined in the Oxford English dictionary as "noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder." This quite obviously and accurately encompasses religious beliefs that are maintained despite being contradicted by reality or rational argument, they need not form part of a mental disorder, as the OED definition quote clearly says. Apollo is ignoring this for fairly obvious reasons, and dishonestly focusing on the words mental disorder, No one is fooled of course. Professor Dawkins use of delusion in title of his book is therefor entirely apposite. Apollo hasn't read TGD, that is quite clear, and I challenge him to quote any part of the text with chapter and page reference, and give a cogent argument against it, I have a copy at hand.
4. Apollo's "evaluation" of the bible is entirely subjective, as he has admitted, and therefore of no more use as evidence than the any other biased anecdotal claims, including dehydrated and starving sailors plucked from the ocean swearing they were saved by mermaids.

On the whole apollo's posts are poorly reasoned, and contain cliched apologetics, and logical fallacies abound. His bombast is chiefly characterised by a strident, dishonest and dismissive style that he clearly finds impressive. I have noticed though that many religious apologists possess the same unshakeable confidence in themselves, their specious arguments, and their unevidenced beliefs. They may believe the moon is made of cheese if it makes them happy, but I require credible objective evidence, and they can demonstrate none.

I ask again apollo, what objective evidence can you demonstrate that any deity exists? Your continued reticence speaks volumes.

Old man shouts at clouds's picture
@ Apollo

@ Apollo
"old man continued to demand the "yardstick" by which I evaluated the Bible despite the fact I answer that many times in another thread. Its literature, so it is evaluated accordingly."

Agree (0)
so all the examples I have given you are "literature" and therefore made up by men?

That just denies all of christianity doesn't it? Just to refreshh your memoery on the examples you failed to it is again.

"NO you didn't. You told us what to believe the bible isn't. "It isn't history it isn't science"

That's not answering my specific questions on exactly how you differentiate between passages that are metaphor, those that are allegory, yet others that are fantasy

So I will be specific, please answer with specifics as to which category the following fall into, and your reasoning as to why.

The resurrection,

The virgin birth?

The crucifixion

The darkness at noon

The Jewish zombies wandering around Jerusalem at the resurrection:

The Wedding at Canaa (Water into wine)

The loaves and fishes incident

The raising of Lazarus

The existence of the biblical jesus as described in the gospels.

You have NEVER answered the question merely restated your vapid assertion "it's all literature" which means nothing. So once again your are lying and evading the question.

arakish's picture
Hope you don't mind me adding

Hope you don't mind me adding onto this Old Man...

The Bible does not qualify as literature since everything in it is nothing more that re-hashed legends, myths, and faerie tales plagiarized from far older sources. Some thousands of years older.


Randomhero1982's picture
Pmsl, that would be yet

Pmsl, that would be yet another Straw man fallacy from Apollo.

An oxygen thief of the highest order.

Could a Mod change his username to KingBollocks... it's more apt.

arakish's picture
Damn. Where is that 10K

Damn. Where is that 10K Agree button? At least I can give you one.


arakish's picture
Sorry y'all, but this list

Sorry y'all, but this list will probably get quite long...

And here are quite a few other things BHB (Black Hole Brain), formerly known as Apollo, got wrong in his posts. I also corrected his many misspellings and grammatical errors. Or, at least I tried. There were so many...

BHB, is English a second language for you? Or, are you a five year old child hijacking someone else's account?

BHB: "And interestingly, all of the founding fathers of the USA were theists of some sort or other, yet they promoted freedom of religion."

Wrong. Thomas Jefferson was actually atheist. Read Christopher Hitchens book Thomas Jefferson: Author of America. In a letter to his son, Thomas Jefferson wrote (I paraphrase):

"I have yet to see any good reason to suppose that theology, excepting historical, is a subject worthy of study. In fact, I have yet to see any good reason why any theological school should be accredited."

Thomas Jefferson was an atheist. He was forced to "pretend" he was a theist because back in those days, to be an atheist was litterally a death sentence. The church would have hung him or burned him at the stack. I was very similar. I had to "pretend" to get saved just to get The Church to quit persecuting me, humiliating me, discriminating against me, abusing me, raping me, and molesting me.

If us Rationalists had not risen up against you sorry Religious Absolutists, you would still...

  • be burning us at the stack,
  • piling stones on our chest until the rib–cage collapsed,
  • tying boulders to our ankles and throwing the boulder into a deep lake,
  • making us into basketball centers on the rack,
  • flailing us with cat–of–nine–tails until we bleed to death,
  • dunking us into a deep pool of water at the end of a see–saw,
  • dragging us behind a pack animal until dead,
  • tarring and feathering us,
  • crucifying us,
  • hanging us by neck until dead,
  • amongst many, many other forms of torture...

...and still you have the gall to say we are the immoral ones for not believing in your immoral bullshit?

And here is another point, you Religious Absolutists have: Murdered, Raped, Tortured, Lied, Extorted, Sacrificed, Ravaged, Swindled, Exploited, Plundered, Abused, Coerced, Pillaged, Tormented, Harassed, Rampaged, Insulted, Endangered, Threatened, Oppressed, Persecuted, Committed Ethnic Genocidal Cleansings, Terrorized, Mutilated Genitalia, Enslaved, Molested and Raped Children, Corrupted, (Did I miss any? How many?) the name of God for centuries around the world to spread such a theological message.


As far as I am concerned, 50+ years of personal religious discrimination and religious persecution by you bigoted Religious Absolutists now gives me the right to turn the tables and do the same to those who did it to me. You know the adage: "Do unto others as they have done unto you." I think it is y’all’s Golden Rule. Or, is it "Do unto others before they do unto you."

BHB: "Atheists are science based and so couldn't possibly be mistaken about anything."

So completely wrong. Not all atheists are scientists. Not all scientists are atheist. BHB, you seriously need to seek psychiatric help for that Schizophrenic Delusion Disorder you are suffering from.

BHB: "When questioned Atheists invariably but vaguely talk about "evidence," and in doing so reveal themsleves as believeing in a defunct... blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah..."

Again wrong. When we ask for evidence, this is what we mean: Evidence is information that verifies the truth (which accurately corresponds to reality) or falsity (inaccuracy) of a claim through observation and/or experimentation without bias (the Great Wiki).

BHB: "Apparently, Dawkins has some of you convinced that research into prayer showed it didn't work, therefore we know there is no creator God. Its flawed. He is trying to extrapolate from that to what did or didn't happen prior to the creation of the universe. But all he is really showing is that their beliefs about what prayer can achieve is dubious. he is challenging their beliefs about prayer, not the existance of God."

The double-blind study into the power, or lack of power, of prayer was exquisitely detailed in Richard Dawkins' book The God Delusion. This proves you never read The God Delusion, but quote mining other persons reviews of said book. Know what this makes you? A FUCKING LIAR! Another study showed that the only time prayer actually helps is for your self. And that is no different than an atheist like me who has learned meditative techniques.

BHB: "He maintains that the existence or non-existence of God is a scientific fact about the universe, which is discoverable in principle if not in practice."

Quote mined from Wikipedia. Whoever wrote that got it wrong. Richard Dawkins proposed that the existence of god can be treated as if it were The God Hypothesis and could be testable. He NEVER, EVER, stated in his book "that the existence or non-existence of God is a scientific fact about the universe." Quote mining liar quoting a liar.

BHB: "...why don't you go to the local hospital on Sunday, pray ion the behalf of the sick, heal every one..."

Notice bold text. What the Hell is praying about ions going to do for the sick?

BHB: "It doesn't prove God didn't create the universe, which is, I think, but I'm not sure, Dawkins' point."

Wrong. Dawkins point was to show the IMPROBABILITY of the existence of the Christian Sky Faerie. More proof you never read The God Delusion. You know for having NOT read The God Delusion, you are certainly psychotic about it.

BHB: "When Dawkins studies some natural process, he is studying Gods work."

Please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, or shut the 7734 up.

BHB: "I hope he doen't get the right to impose his faith on others."

He does not. He only presents his arguments. The rest is on the reader.

BHB: "I got atheists claiming infalible objective science proves what happened or didn't happen before the big bang."

Either prove this with OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, or shut the 7734 up.

BHB: "Similarily, medications don't help atheists who believe they know what happened or didn't happen prior the the Big Bang. There is no evidence for that atheist claim, and medication won't help."

This has NEVER, EVER, been asserted by any atheist. Please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, blockquote and link the post, or shut the 7734 up.

BHB: "I'm not drinking that kool aid."

Nope. You are just drinking your own "Jim Jones" Kool-Aid.

BHB: "What ever precipitated the Big Bang happened before the Big Bang, and athiests claim to know it wasn't God"

This has NEVER, EVER, been claimed by any atheist. Please provide OBJECTIVE HARD EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE, blockquote and link the post, or shut the 7734 up.

BHB: "The title of the book, "The God Delusion" implies directly that Dawkins knows God does not exist."

Wrong. The title of the book, if you were to use reading comprehension (which is probably beyond your intelligence level), is saying nothing more than The God Delusion. Where do see the implication that Richard Dawkins directly knows god does not exist?

Let's break it down (using a real live dictionary):

  • The — definitive article used to mark a proper noun, natural phenomenon, ship, building, time, point of the compass, branch of endeavor, or field of study as something well-known or unique.
  • God — noun used to denote the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.
  • Delusion — the state of being deluded.

I chose the very first definitions in the dictionary I used. And I am certain that Richard Dawkins meant the exact definitions as I listed them for the title of his treatise. Thus, you can get the true implication of his book title, "The state of being deluded into the belief of a supreme being."

You had better got to that last life boat. Your ship is sinking fast.

BHB: "You seem to be suggesting there is no differnece between atheist and agnostic."

HUGE difference between the two. Atheists lack any belief in any god. Agnostics are just too stupid, but they are still more intelligent than Religious Absolutists and Religious Absolutist Apologists.

BHB: "Even so, contemporary science puts an age on the universe."

Wrong. Science puts an approximation on how long the universe has been in the Universal Expansion stage of its existence. I am beginning to think the only course you passed in high school was Lunch Period.

BHB: "And the starting point, the beginning, is what contemporary science calls the Big Bang."

As previously posted, the Big Bang Theory (Universal Expansion Theory) only states when the universe started the Universal Expansion stage.

BHB: "So what is the atheist claim on the age and beginning of the universe? Is it different from contemporary science?"

No difference. The answer is "We have top scientists working on the answer. We will get back to you when find the answer." Or, more simply put, "I do not know."

BHB: "I believe in freedom of belief, and tolerance for differing perspectives."

As do I. However, there is no tolerance in me for someone who spews lie after lie after lie after lie after lie after ... When a person becomes nothing more than a sorry piece of human filth liar, all bets, all tolerance, all gloves, are off. It is time for the big guns.

BHB: "Dawkins, for instance, reportedly claims that as a child he was brought up a Christian."

So was I. What the fuck does that have to do with anything? I just refused to believe the bullshit even at the young age of 3½ I even remember the Cubn Missile Crisis and the JFK assassination, although me mom swears I was too young to remember. However, I do remember those incidents. I was too young comprehend them. So... what the 7734 does being raised Christian have to do with anything? Since you are a proven Religious Absolutist Apologist, were you raised by a pack of wolves? ...?

BHB: "A person reasons correctly from within an untrue system that could be true, but actually isn't true."

Must be in reference to your delusional mind...

BHB: "But it has no impact on me, as I am not a literalist. You are critiquing the fundamentalists, but I am not a fundamentalist."

That just leaves you being a delusionist...

BHB: "("Retarded". Insulting is a weak man's way of trying to look strong.)"

It is also a truthful man's way of saying the truth.

BHB: "Sheldon continues to be passionate and jumping to conclusions"

No he has not. I have yet to see Sheldon jump to any conclusion unless he is telling a joke to make a Religious Absolutist look like the fool they are. And the only passion I have seen from him is the same loathsome passion for liars.

BHB: "He [Sheldon] got his quote from The God Delusion from me [BHB]"

No he did not because you have never quoted anything from The God Delusion.

BHB: "Old Man continued to demand the "yardstick" by which I evaluated the Bible despite the fact I answer that many times in another thread. Its literature, so it is evaluated accordingly."

And I have repeatedly told you that the Bible DOES NOT qualify as literature since it is plagiarized from many other myths, legends, and faerie tales far, FAR! older than the Bible. Some thousands of years older. And just one example. The Noahacian Flood Story was actually written about 400 BCE. The Genesis of Enridu (includes a flood myth) was written 2000 BCE.


arakish's picture


Here is a direct quote for you.

"There is an unfortunate hook–up between science’s methodological need to seek out areas of ignorance in order to target research, and Intelligent Design’s need to seek out areas of ignorance in order to claim victory by default." — Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion


Sheldon's picture
Yes indeed sir, good darts.

Yes indeed sir, good darts. Nurse can we get a little aloe vera over here, apollo just got burned, and spanked at the same time.

I feel a bit dirty though, I mean hitting a creatard, it's a guilty pleasure.


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