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Bringing you atheist articles and building active godless communities takes hundreds of hours and resources each month. If you find any joy or stimulation at Atheist Republic, please consider becoming a Supporting Member with a recurring monthly donation of your choosing, between a cup of tea and a good dinner.
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@Blessed Intruder Re: "So don't bother responding to stupid ol' me, you've met my family members,..."
Tell ya what, you darling little rascal, when you stop posting I'll stop responding to you. How 'bout it? Sounds like a fair deal to me... *grin*...
@Tin Man, I'm truly sorry for being naughty Sir, but you're much more handsome when you frown!
@Intruder Alert Re: "...but you're much more handsome when you frown!"
Believe me, I KNOW. My wife tells me it makes me look more macho. And there was a time back in my younger days I had to walk around in public with a stupid smile on my face at all times. Because if I had frowned for any reason, I would have to beat the swarm of women away with a feather duster.
@Tin Man, We were given all that's needed to survive (keep living) but in most cases we CHOOSE not to, so we return to non-existence!
@Along came an Intruder Re: "We were given all that's needed to survive (keep living) but in most cases we CHOOSE not to, so we return to non-existence!"
Wow, dude... Like, grooooovy. That was, like, you know, some really heavy shit, man. Faaaar oooout... *stoner chuckle*... But, you know, like, uh, I, like, think maybe, dude, maybe, uh, maybe..... uhhhh... you know, like maybe you are, like, you know, not considering THIS, man...
Golden gilded grasshoppers gripping green gossamer growths greedily gnaw gleaming grapes gaining gratifying gastric genuflection.
So, you know, it's all like, you know, a matter of perspective, dude... *passing doobie to the left*...
@ Intruder
Just more evidence that you are NOT what you claim.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_unfulfilled_predictions
@Old Man shouts, Let us keep the claim aside for now since we now have an agreement.
You don't believe in the existence of God but i do, you demand tolerance from all other people and i do as well.
So whatever i believe or claim shouldn't be a problem anymore, after all you also have yours.
Let's just be friends, as long as you and i continue to TOLERATE each other in the neighborhood!
@ Intruder
Why keep your claim aside? You made it, I do not believe you without evidence.
Regarding your claim to christianity when your founders decided to adopt the long defunct "Arian heresy" you were declared anathema by mainstream christianity as we know it today.
Your claimed membership of a cult that has an adulation of "paul" and frequent changes to its substantive doctrine render you less than reliable when it comes to your invitations to join such a closed, cruel society.
The adherence to cult practises such as shunning, render your claim to be christian hollow at best. Mendacious, as you have only too willingly displayed here in your posts.
Lets us also not forget your cult's dismal remarks and stance at the Royal Commission into Institutional Child Sex Abuse, shameful.
Never mind the willingness your cult displays in disowning family members when they disagree with the "elders" or accuse them of abuse, and even allowing members of families to die rather than take advantage of modern science. Cruelty and barbarism, no "tolerance" there. .
I will show such tolerance to you as you show to a young girl who wishes to leave the cult.........or a child who accuses an elder of sexual abuse. I know the procedure your cult adopts in that case...do you?
And please do not come on with the "vilification" theme, the testimony at the Royal Commission and the attestations of so many ex cultists give the lie to that epithet.
I think you really nailed it here. If I had to create a litmus test for testing organizations to see if they are a cult; it would be:
Is contact with former members of the organization discouraged by the organization?
If the answer is yes, you're probably in a cult.
@ Nyar
100% agree.
Also the other test I apply is whether life saving medical treatment is denied or fought against (as it has been) through the courts in the case of minors.
And the third test is how they handle claims of abuse from the ordinary members.
JWs fail each count. They are a cult.
@Old man shouts
Hadn't thought much about cults since 1971. A mate I had grown up with and his wife got caught up in "The Divine Light Mission" figure headed by an 11 year old kid called' Guru Maharaji' --Now THAT was a cult. My mate wanted me to join and I refused, telling him he was being conned. Never saw either of them again. Years later I heard they had left the cult after 3 years and gone to live our hills, a pair of ageing hippies. The best kind imo.
From what has been written in this thread, sounds like the Amish qualify as a cult:
Daily life is severely controlled; in dress, use of modern appliances. They practice shunning. They are pacifists .Do not vote nor pay taxes. Education is by home schooling and ends at grade 7. At age 18 (I think) individuals are permitted to go into the world of 'the English' (any non Amish) for a period. This is called 'rumspringa ' At the end of an indefinite period ,each individual must decide if he/she will be baptised and become a full member of the church. If they decide not, they must leave the community and their family. How much family contact they have depends on the 'ordnung' of their group. Some are more severe than others. My understanding
is that most of the kids return home to be baptised, some after a week or two. .
I have read reports of child sexual abuse within Amish communities, and within orthodox Hasidic Jewish communities. Can't remember ever having read or seen news reports. That reality confirms my opinion that child sexual abuse will occur in any organisation or community in which men(especially) have power over children .--and yes, that includes our own towns and cities.
@ Cranky
I agree the Mennonites and Amish (both part of the Anabaptist movement) exhibit all the signs of cult behaviour. They seem to be forgiven(?) because they are "cute" in their hand sewn clothing and refusal to accept modern technology. They were persecuted back in the day for being what they are, a cult. Nothing has changed.
In fact nearly every christian sect is based on the original jesus cult developed by 'Paul?' and their behaviour easily reverts to what we consider extreme cult like behaviour when challenged from within.
Excommunication, "disfellowship", shunning, and "sending to Coventry" are all the same cult behavior. Similarly as highlighted by the Royal Commission, not one christian sect was open about abuse within their organisation. All tended to close ranks behind the accused rather than supporting the accuser even where there were multiple witnesses.
Secrecy rather than openness is the hallmark of these cults. Protection of scrutiny of the Elders/ authority figures paramount, rather than the welfare of children and young adults.
Edit for clarity.
@Old man shouts
Have been reading Bart Ehrman's 'Lost Christianities' and 'Paul; The Mind Of The Apostle' , A N Wilson.
Fascinating to learn that the religion we call 'Christianity' did not simply emerge whole and homogeneous in the first century as we have been led to believe. . There were several other contenders certainly no loopier than the winner.
Who knows what would have happened had not emperor Theodosius made THAT christianity the state religion in the late fourth century. He gave those holy men the permission and encouragement to murder pagans and anyone else they didn't like. The church did so with gusto for the next 1000 years.
I was actually stunned by the sheer number of 'heretical sects" around before and after the first Nicene council imposed the canon. (a purely political exercise by Constantine) I had always thought it was only a few, such as the Arians, Gnostics and the group who became the Cathars. . Had not even heard of Ebionites. That's the trouble with ignorance. One is simply unaware of the vastness of one's ignorance. Paradoxically, the more one learns about just about anything, the greater one's ignorance becomes.
Without imperial favour, I suspect the various versions of "The Way" would have faded into a well deserve obscurity within a couple of generations.
Have seen a couple of documentaries about the Amish as well as a couple of Hollywood films, which reinforce the just plain, simple folks' myth.
I was and remain appalled that entire communities of pig ignorant, isolated , stunted people still exist in the 21st century. Puts me in mind of that underrated film "The Village" . I have never liked 'cute' in anyone except very small children and puppies.
@ Cranky
I wrote a piece about the Ebionites, one of my hobbies is 1st century Christian and Religious History...if you search my profile you will find it.
I was and remain appalled that entire communities of pig ignorant, isolated , stunted people still exist in the 21st century. Puts me in mind of that underrated film "The Village" . I have never liked 'cute' in anyone except very small children and puppies.
Even more appalling are the proselytisers who come on these forums who do not know the history and origins of their faith.
@Old man shouts
Thanks for that. I'll have a look at your paper , Ehrman gives some information about them in "The Lost Christianities" Fascinating stuff.
@ Cranky RE Ebionites
Sent you a PM with the original text.
It is a very short version, if you want more info give us a shout.
Also much on Marcion(ites)
@Old man shouts
Thanks for the info. Think I have enough without the Marcionites for the once.
@ Cranky
Early 1st Century beliefs have been my study of choice for a couple or more decades now.....so let me know If i bore you silly...
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